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08-23-2018, 01:22 PM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't think they're after you; this is aimed at current Nikon users who might otherwise "jump ship" to Sony.
I tend to agree. I think that Nikon looked at the money being spent on MILCs and decided that they wanted part of it. And with their name, cache, or whatever, they may actually steal sales that would have gone to Sony had they not entered the market. I don't think that they saw the end of the DSLR as the reason to introduce MILCs.

08-23-2018, 01:28 PM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by lsimpkins Quote
I tend to agree. I think that Nikon looked at the money being spent on MILCs and decided that they wanted part of it. And with their name, cache, or whatever, they may actually steal sales that would have gone to Sony had they not entered the market. I don't think that they saw the end of the DSLR as the reason to introduce MILCs.
I could also see this camera going over as well as the Df...A camera a certain segment of the user base said they wanted, then didn't buy.
08-23-2018, 01:36 PM   #48
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yeah, I'm probably jumping ship to Nikon or Sony next year. My K-5iis has been good to me but I need an update and Pentax moves at a snails pace. I like DSLRs but it seems camera companies aren't looking to put technology into them like they are with mirrorless. The only real complaint I'm seeing about the Nikons is no dual card slot which isn't a problem to me because these cameras aren't meant to be pro-level yet, they don't even have a real lens lineup yet. But this is a good start for Nikon in the full frame mirrorless game. Now they just need to catch up with eye-af. I don't think anybody mentioned focus-peaking either. But good first attempt none the less.
08-23-2018, 01:42 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymondjackso25 Quote
yeah, I'm probably jumping ship to Nikon or Sony next year. My K-5iis has been good to me but I need an update and Pentax moves at a snails pace. I like DSLRs but it seems camera companies aren't looking to put technology into them like they are with mirrorless. The only real complaint I'm seeing about the Nikons is no dual card slot which isn't a problem to me because these cameras aren't meant to be pro-level yet, they don't even have a real lens lineup yet. But this is a good start for Nikon in the full frame mirrorless game. Now they just need to catch up with eye-af. I don't think anybody mentioned focus-peaking either. But good first attempt none the less.
AFAIK, they has focus peaking on EVF.

08-23-2018, 02:46 PM   #50
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I think cameras will eventually end up mirror less, but for me, they are not there yet. The main issue in the EVF and while they are certainly much improved, they are still not as good as OVF in my opinion. Another is ergonomics - I really like my K-1. That said, when travelling very light, I like taking the K-01!

The good thing is that each release of a mirrorless camera is going to improve them through competition and its great there is another major company making mirrorless.

The niche Pentax is slotting into will last for a while yet, so I think they will have time to consider what technologies to adopt in the future.
08-23-2018, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #51
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From a satisfied high-end Nikon camera user there's nothing to be interested in , except the possibility to have a Nikon MILC (the reason to be interested in has to be investigated...). Let's say you have a D850, ok? What lenses are you using with that camera?toy lenses? for sure no. You would be using huge, heavy glass, perhaps Sigma glass because, let's face it, Sigma Art lenses are soo good and worth the money. So why investing (alot) of money in this new MILC that does not accept your current lenses and need an adapter to do that? If you have a mirrorless camera than need an adapter and use adapted lenses, you loose the weight convenience in the body and you get possible compatibility problems with lenses, not to say old afd lenses do not work at all.... As for now, this looks like the new toy for some people convinced that yje newest is better....
Wait....there are just 3 lenses.........no lenses wider than 24 mm...... where are now all the reviewers that wrote hostile reviews for the k1 because " there are no lenses" ?..............
08-23-2018, 11:54 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by bm75 Quote
From a satisfied high-end Nikon camera user there's nothing to be interested in
Sadly for Nikon "normal" budget users and entry level users there is nothing as well.

And for Canon or Sony users it is underwhelming as well.

At the same time it will massacre F-Mount lens sales and slow down F-Mount DSLR sales in all categories and buyer levels.

---------- Post added 24th Aug 2018 at 08:58 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
But Nikon is in a stronger position - their users are less likely to wander off.
Actually no other brand has nearly the massive exodus of users like Nikon suffers from. They kind of wipe out a 100% Pentax userbase in 6 month and that for years now.

Obviously Nikon users defected to Sony and Fuji in droves, because Nikons products are not convincing to them.

Both Canon and Pentax seem to have a much more convinced user base.
08-24-2018, 03:05 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Sadly for Nikon "normal" budget users and entry level users there is nothing as well.

And for Canon or Sony users it is underwhelming as well.

At the same time it will massacre F-Mount lens sales and slow down F-Mount DSLR sales in all categories and buyer levels.

---------- Post added 24th Aug 2018 at 08:58 ----------



Actually no other brand has nearly the massive exodus of users like Nikon suffers from. They kind of wipe out a 100% Pentax userbase in 6 month and that for years now.

Obviously Nikon users defected to Sony and Fuji in droves, because Nikons products are not convincing to them.

Both Canon and Pentax seem to have a much more convinced user base.
I do wonder if this is going to plant the seed in the heart of Nikon folks that the F mount is "doomed." Sure, you can buy F mount lenses still and for a long time to come, but if you think eventually you will be shooting with an orphaned mount, it would make you seriously consider future purchases.

08-24-2018, 03:37 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I do wonder if this is going to plant the seed in the heart of Nikon folks that the F mount is "doomed." Sure, you can buy F mount lenses still and for a long time to come, but if you think eventually you will be shooting with an orphaned mount, it would make you seriously consider future purchases.
Yes, that is what I meant with "At the same time it will massacre F-Mount lens sales and slow down F-Mount DSLR sales in all categories and buyer levels."

Such a switch can only work out if you present something unique (that even includes just a uniquely good price/benefit ratio). Given the halfbaked products and lukewarm reaction these days I wouldnt bet on Nikon stopping their downfall.

Nikon is not in the comfortable niche situation Pentax is in.

Sony now can massacre Nikon with either a simple price drop policy or a quick product update.

Canon is probably laughing their heads off already.

And Fuji and Olympus, Panasonic will be happy to collect all the small/portable body buyers as well as the sub $3000 buyers.
08-24-2018, 05:23 AM   #55
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It is going to be ’that F@€-mount’. Have to say. They might be competing with Leica and Sony. Giving bigger camera with big expensive lenses, but cheaper than leica.? Ofcourse they have been listening their current(former) users of ”we also need something similar than Sony, so that I can still be using my old lenses.” Well it is something similar. You use adapter to use your old lenses, and have to pay big € to get one that has been designed for it. Funny that they say bigger mount to not to restrict lenses to max f 1.4. Then first zoom is F4 and primes 1.8, both. Their 50 is not ready yetthou. It will be interesting to see how it goes. To be honest. Nikon has been forced to go at mirrorless field. Pentax is not. Mirrorless might be the future, but still. This might not yet be that reason jo jump. Good to have exersise thou.
08-24-2018, 12:14 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Sadly for Nikon "normal" budget users and entry level users there is nothing as well.

And for Canon or Sony users it is underwhelming as well.
Yes, you're right. And it's a simple fact that Pentax has the better offering also in the APSC market, with very good lenses and cameras at a very competitive price or simply non exixstent in other brands. And it's also a fact that Nikon users buy lenses from Sigma for DX cameras as well as for FX .
QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Obviously Nikon users defected to Sony and Fuji in droves, because Nikons products are not convincing to them.
It depends upon which is the user: professional ones stay with Nikon, but more and more use Sigma lenses (14 -20-24-35 14/24 24/35 Art Lenses are very good lenses some of which do not exist in Nikon lineup or need upgrade).
What Nikon gains with a new mount is putting the 3d party lens manufacturers away from its new camera system, possibly sharing nothing with them and/or making reverse engeneering very difficoult. So, if the new sistem stands up with its legs in numbers, Nikon gains a new market where brand aficionados can buy only original Nikon lenses.
08-24-2018, 11:16 PM - 1 Like   #57
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There are a number of things which I wouldn't have made:
  1. Two FF bodies instead of one FF and one APSC. The $3000 bodies really drive away normal users.
  2. Absolute Lack of USP. Even the Q had a clear USP. If you enter a market as second player you need at least one differentiator.
  3. Low end lens strategy to complement very expensive bodies
    1. F4 FF standard zooms are kit lenses and provide results as 16-45mm F2.8 APSC lenses, which can be had new for $300. And if all you want is this then the test chart geek performance is not relevant either.
      Why not a 24-105 which has the benefit of better focal length? Why not a F2.8 that can reap the benefits of FF?
    2. F1.8 primes are the marketing version of F2 lenses. Users are well aware of them being both very compact and in the $100-150 range for absolute beginners. Now offering $700 clunky versions is below underwhelming. Why slow lenses and not F1.4? These are not limiteds with all their glory where you can accept a little less speed.
    3. Manual focus new Noct lens. Is it 1960?
  4. Stubborn sticking to overpriced XQD (reminds of Sonys tries with memory sticks)
  5. Buffers for less than 2 sec bursts
  6. Single card slot
  7. Inability to adjust exposure during fast bursts
  8. Using mechanical shutters which can't do more than 5,5 FPS
  9. 310 images per fat battery. Really?
08-25-2018, 01:26 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
...
Stubborn sticking to overpriced XQD (reminds of Sonys tries with memory sticks)
Buffers for less than 2 sec bursts
Inability to adjust exposure during fast bursts
Using mechanical shutters which can't do more than 5,5 FPS
310 images per fat battery. Really?
Some people here have also been asking for XQD, even if SD cards are more than enough. They must have Sony shares, or be fanboys.
Does that mean that you only see what you're doing up to 5.5fps? K1 doesn't seem so slow anymore...
Also, 200000 shutter life, nothing to be proud about in a camera that brags of 9fps.
I'd already called the battery a joke some posts earlier. Not alone now.
Hadn't seen the buffer specs. Won't complain about the KP so much now, especially at less than 1/2 the price

Whatever way you look at it, it's half [battery,slots,card value,buffer,etc.] what you get in a DSLR like the K1.
All put together, and looked at critically, just by looking at specs, the K1 wins. Add prices to the equation, and everything is more expensive than K1, except for (apparently) lenses.

I wonder if it beats the KP on practical performance specs (5.5fps, buffer, 310 pics/battery).

I was actually expecting a good camera, but the specs above make it look like a very expensive toy, or a joke, depending on whether you're a pro.
08-25-2018, 01:36 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Low end lens strategy to complement very expensive bodies
F4 FF standard zooms are kit lenses and provide results as 16-45mm F2.8 APSC lenses, which can be had new for $300. And if all you want is this then the test chart geek performance is not relevant either.
Why not a 24-105 which has the benefit of better focal length? Why not a F2.8 that can reap the benefits of FF?
F1.8 primes are the marketing version of F2 lenses. Users are well aware of them being both very compact and in the $100-150 range for absolute beginners. Now offering $700 clunky versions is below underwhelming. Why slow lenses and not F1.4?
From my POW, Nikon could have done f/4 zoom and just f/1.8 primes to keep the weight low considering this is a MILC system, But the price tag is so high that existing Nikon users would buy a mew 750 with some F primes (or sigma f/1.4 ptrimes) at the same price(and weight). Obviously there's a didfferentiating factor if you look at the exsisting Nikon d850+f2.8 zooms.....the weight is a factor. But then, what user this camera would be aimed to? The real reason to do such a camera is for sure marketing.We have to wait for see if those lenses are high quality (I have the 20 f/1.8 from Nikon and its quality is really good with d8XX series camera) and then consider if the new system could be consistent for Nikon users that want the advantages of MILCs .
08-25-2018, 03:21 AM   #60
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So I have been trying to wrap my head around this. The specifications are pretty good. Faster frame rate, great video, the 24 megapixel version isn't too expensive (2200 dollars with the adapter but no lens). At the same time, it does feel as though these cameras should be targeted at the professional crowd and yet for many shooting situations, having one card is a no go if you are a pro. The lenses aren't really there yet.

At the same time, it really is going damage the F mount lens sales in the long run. Because Nikon is signaling that they are moving in this direction. It is like Sony with the FE mount. Certainly you can still by alpha mount lenses, but I have to imagine their sales have dropped a huge amount since Sony really doesn't release alpha cameras much any more.

Finally, one of the points of mirrorless cameras to me was that you could have a relatively small camera that was a bit more portable than an SLR. But honestly, if you have space for a Z6 and 24-70 f4 in your bag then you have space for a D750 and similar lens. The Z6 and 35 f1.8 is actually deeper than the D750 with the 35 f1.8G on camera size. Sure, it isn't as big as a D850, but not many cameras are and it doesn't seem as though Nikon worked particularly hard to make it small or to bring a pancake lens or two with it that would fit into a pocket of your backpack when you were hiking or something like that.

Clearly it isn't a camera targeted at me, but I'm not totally sure who it is targeted at. I guess people who desperately want an EVF combined with a full frame camera and can't stand Sony.
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