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08-23-2018, 02:09 AM   #1
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Northrup on Mirrorless

Tony Northrup has posted a video on Mirrorless cameras and his thoughts on the future. And he doesn’t hold much hope for Pentax...

No doubt this will raise a chorus of abuse and bullying comments from the regulars, but I didn’t post it for you. I can almost write your replies for you. It’s for those who, like me, are a little concerned and want to have a civil, educated discussion about the direction of Pentax.



08-23-2018, 02:35 AM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
It’s for those who, like me, are a little concerned and want to have a civil, educated discussion about the direction of Pentax.
Well, if you think Mirrorless is the future everything, you can jump ship. I mean use watever float your boat.

Pentax stated many times during the last years that the brand is commited to DSLR and won't go into mirrorless in foreseeable future.
Pentax ain't in video either. Photo oriented and will offer basic video capabilities.

If you wan't a great discussion about the direction of Pentax, you can put a hundred milion on the table and get it were you want it to go (kidding here).
08-23-2018, 02:37 AM - 4 Likes   #3
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A couple of quick points
-Pentax is a niche brand, and there currently is a strong demand for non-mirrorless within that niche
-Comparing other brands' mirrorless to Pentax is thus moot in my opinion
-Other brands already do a great job of FF or APS-C mirrorless (i.e. Sony, and did you see the just-announced Nikon Z?)
-When the time comes I'm sure Pentax will follow suit with a similar model (since their prior "creative" flirtations with mirrorless missed the mark) and make preparations for a smooth transition for the K-mount lens system
-Pentax does have a forward-looking product line - the Theta. This product line caters to the mainstream.

It's also hard to predict the future. If there's currently any brand that offers what you need, I say go for it without worrying what comes next, because there will always be new products followed by a ton of speculation about what might come after that.

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08-23-2018, 02:48 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
No doubt this will raise a chorus of abuse and bullying comments from the regulars
No doubt you're setting yourself up for some verbal abuse, I hope you've got a thick skin...

08-23-2018, 02:57 AM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by altopiet Quote
No doubt you're setting yourself up for some verbal abuse, I hope you've got a thick skin...
Haha...yeah I fully expected a torrent of abuse. We’ve already seen the standard tropes marched out: move brand, Theta is good, Pentax is niche etc etc

Next we can expect: Mirrorless is rubbish, you’re a Pentax hater, Northrup is a fool and on it will go. Eventually the thread will be closed and I will be banned for anti-Pentax sentiments, while the abusive bullies will carry on their way.

I guess I sorta hoped there were a few members who wanted an intelligent discussion. I don’t know why the abusive people feel the need to post. If you don’t like the topic then change threads.

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 03:07 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
A couple of quick points
-Pentax is a niche brand, and there currently is a strong demand for non-mirrorless within that niche
-Comparing other brands' mirrorless to Pentax is thus moot in my opinion
-Other brands already do a great job of FF or APS-C mirrorless (i.e. Sony, and did you see the just-announced Nikon Z?)
-When the time comes I'm sure Pentax will follow suit with a similar model (since their prior "creative" flirtations with mirrorless missed the mark) and make preparations for a smooth transition for the K-mount lens system
-Pentax does have a forward-looking product line - the Theta. This product line caters to the mainstream.

It's also hard to predict the future. If there's currently any brand that offers what you need, I say go for it without worrying what comes next, because there will always be new products followed by a ton of speculation about what might come after that.
You missed the point Adam. The question is more about the future of photography products, and whether Pentax is able or willing to keep up.

Do you think Nikon developed a new system and their first new lens mount in 50 years because they thought it was a bad idea or was not the correct future direction?

I have no opinion or preferences for Mirrorless over DSLR. I wanted a CIVIL and EDUCATED discussion about the threats Pentax is facing.

Last edited by Bert J; 08-23-2018 at 03:16 AM.
08-23-2018, 03:20 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
I wanted a CIVIL and EDUCATED discussion about the threats Pentax is facing.
Why caps ?
08-23-2018, 03:24 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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So... you started the thread by deciding that we're a bunch of abusers and bullies; then continue by deciding that 'civil, educated' means agreeing with you. And the others are oh so abusive. Nice job!
But if you're unhappy with us regulars, what are you doing here? Why not finding a nicer, 'civil, educated' community?

Just for the laughs, on this video published on 15 august 2018 - that's last week, folks! - Tony's saying how Nikon is doing nothing (about mirrorless). Well, except for heavily teasing the Nikon Z... that's a new level of not paying attention! (and still "educating" others, lol).
His assessment about Pentax is equally laughable. He doesn't get Pentax; and he might be trying to satisfy the egos of his main audience by Othering the brand.

08-23-2018, 03:31 AM - 2 Likes   #8
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I actually don't disagree with much of what they say about mirrorless cameras, that's why I have Pentax & Panasonic cameras.
It's not really news that Pentax isn't in the market for mirrorless cameras.

What I'm curious about though is the number of threads which are being started with statements which are bound to ruffle feathers, this particular thread is pretty mild really, but it's guaranteed to tweak a couple of noses.

There's another thread saying that the senior members favor gear over technique, and that they're horrible photographers.
Another about 'When will Pentax catch up..."
Various others lately.

it kinda seems like trolling as sport.
08-23-2018, 03:35 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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The camera industry needs to sell mirrorless tech because if not, all industry players will suffer from a stagnation of camera sales. Northrup is living of the changes that happen in the camera industry, the whole point of his channel is to be subsidized by brands to generate enough income for a living. All industry players will ultimately offer a mirrorless system because the age of updating sensors is over, now in order to get customers to buy new gear they need to change lens mounts etc. Changing lens mounts is a big business deal because it opens up an entirely new opportunity for selling more again.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-23-2018 at 03:46 AM.
08-23-2018, 03:38 AM - 3 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
Tony Northrup has posted a video on Mirrorless cameras and his thoughts on the future. And he doesn’t hold much hope for Pentax...

No doubt this will raise a chorus of abuse and bullying comments from the regulars, but I didn’t post it for you. I can almost write your replies for you. It’s for those who, like me, are a little concerned and want to have a civil, educated discussion about the direction of Pentax.

MIRRORLESS WARS: Life & death for camera makers - YouTube
I'm not going to make what you call "bullying comments" but I am going to say this:

Since when has "Tony Northrup" become the go-to authority for all things camera related? Tony Northrup posts what he does because it suits his agenda, namely more views of "Tony Northrup". Nothing more, nothing less. As far as I'm concerned, he's noise. Noise dressed up as fact. He's never been a Pentax fan, so why should that change now?

So, as to the direction of Pentax: Ricoh has pretty deep pockets. But, in the end, they are answerable to their shareholders. Cameras is a miniscule part of their business. But, that tiny part has some pretty good engineers and staff who are passionate about Pentax. In interviews senior staff have stated that DSLR's with optical viewfinders are their focus. I, for one, am very happy with that. I have yet to pick up a mirrorless camera (i.e. a camera with an electronic viewfinder (EVF)) that I have found as nice to use as a camera with a nice, clear optical viewfinder. Maybe, one day, someone will make an EVF that neither hurts my eyes, nor displays a diminished dynamic range, nor shows lag, nor assaults my eyeballs with a bright pixelated display. But chances are, that camera won't be a Pentax.

Every now and then, the forum suffers yet another "mirrorless vs DSLR" discussion. It's not new. If you long for a mirrorless camera, Pentax may not be for you. There will, long from now, be people who want a DSLR. With luck, Pentax will be around to provide products to satisfy that need.

Northrup can't predict the future - No one can. If there's one thing I've learnt, that is this: We can't predict what the future will hold. We don't know what new technology is about to be released that will make current technology obsolete. We humans are not particularly good at predicting the future. I have a stack of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science magazines, from about 1937 through to 1960. Not every edition, but a pretty big selection anyway. And, every so often, they posted an article about "50 years from now". And here's the thing: Of all the predictions they made, not one single one has come true. Not one. We cannot conceive of that not yet invented. Mirrorless may be that thing, or it may not.

I, for one, will keep buying good quality Pentax gear as long as it's made or until I die. Whichever comes first.

Oh - Welcome to the Forum! There are plenty other mirrorless fans here. Enjoy! (As you may have picked up, I'm not one of them - yet!)
Enjoy your camera(s) whichever make or model they may be. Ultimately, it's not about the appliance, but what you do with it. It's about the picture.
I hope I've been civil and educated enough for you.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 08-23-2018 at 03:49 AM.
08-23-2018, 03:40 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
Do you think Nikon developed a new system and their first new lens mount in 50 years because they thought it was a bad idea or was not the correct future direction?
It's because Nikon was near bankrupt, lost market share, and Nikon workaround to revert their trend is to design new products that max out their sales. Mirrorless is very good for reverting drop of sales because once they will sell the Z6 and Z7, they will also sell Z mounts lenses at least for the next 3 years. Don't be focusing on Pentax, just look at the big picture about the camera business that has been shrinking to less than half of what it was 5 years ago. The question for you as a customer is whether you need a mirrorless camera or not.
08-23-2018, 03:42 AM - 1 Like   #12
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I kinda liked the way the Northrups compared Pentax to the old boxing champ. I never knew that Pentax was the biggest 35mm SLR brand back in the sixties. Now a shadow of its former self. It's just a bit sad.

I think that Pentax ignores the MILC market at its own peril. Canon also has some serious catching up to do at the top end of the mirrorless market but at least they have a horse in the race on the consumer side of things.
08-23-2018, 03:51 AM - 3 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
It’s for those who, like me, are a little concerned and want to have a civil, educated discussion about the direction of Pentax
civil and educated is what this forum excels in.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bert J Quote
No doubt this will raise a chorus of abuse and bullying comments from the regulars, but I didn’t post it for you. I can almost write your replies for you
This is neither civil nor educated.

Perhaps you would do better if you actually commented on the points raised in the video, and made your own arguments about what you see the issues are with regard to mirrorless and Pentax. Then you will get a proper debate. Your opening post comes across as trrolling.
08-23-2018, 03:58 AM   #14
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Usually people get frustrated if their camera is outdated versus competition and they don't have the money to buy lenses again with another mount because they want to continue to use their lenses (e.g K mount lenses). Getting frustrated because another brand make a new camera with a new lens mount is strange. If you were a Nikon use owner a raft of F mount lenses, you might really be frustrated that all future R&D investments will go to fund Z mount development in order to compete with Sony.
08-23-2018, 03:58 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Bertram, you are sounding a bit confrontational, so far this has been very civil regarding what Adam said, it is actually pertinent. In my opinion Pentax's position within Ricoh means there isn't likely to be anything avant garde in the near future. I considered getting an NEX but was put off by its usability, although, as fashion is a big seller in the affordable camera market, the likes of Sony and Nikon are likely to be the ones that shift the numbers. I believe Pentax and other DSLRs will always have a market but I also firmly believe if not actually "niche" it will be smaller than mirrorless sales. I can see mirrorless cameras getting the lions share of R&D but I wonder if they will push the MP count, after all, with each MP the file size grows and I wonder if the customer base would want huge files or simpler processing. Regarding Pentax, I really like (and want) the K-01 but its size is against it. I would love to see something the size of the Sony but with the K mount retained. Even if they did it with an adapter. Pentax limited are beautiful and slim, the xs is tiny! Surely they could make a pocketable camera utilizing existing lens stock, and the K mount opens the door to vintage lenses. Maybe a modified Ricoh GR ii, switch out the fixed lens, change the body shape slightly to accommodate the mount. I can't see it happening but you never know. Would I buy it. What do you think
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