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09-27-2018, 08:11 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Here's evidence of a minor confrontation. He was talking at me but his words were muffled under the mask. I took the photo and continued moving where I was already going. I'm unsure if he was complaining about the photo or ranting about something unrelated.
Well, obviously, he was trying very hard to be inconspicuous.

09-29-2018, 11:59 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Here's evidence [a guy in carnival costume] of a minor confrontation. He was talking at me but his words were muffled under the mask.
It would be ridiculous if he were complaining about his photo being taken. Being photographed goes with an act (and presumably an occasion) like that, and is inevitable.

---------- Post added 29-09-18 at 12:12 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What [Cartier-Bresson] did so well, was realize a location's potential, and then wait patiently, sometimes for hours, for the right moment.
Maybe he did that sometimes, but plenty of his pictures do not have that look about them. I think he just walked about the city a lot and found things on the spot, and was quick to react. It looks like he did have some confrontations though :-


Last edited by Lord Lucan; 09-29-2018 at 12:44 PM.
10-01-2018, 07:31 AM - 1 Like   #33
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I respect the subjects wishes. If they don't want to be photographed, I don't take their picture. If they notice I've taken their picture and make it plain that they wish I hadn't, I delete it.
For the Americans on the forum, one really quick way to get laws surrounding this sort of thing changed is to be a jerk about your "First Amendment" rights. You either respect people or you don't, and taking their picture when they have made it plain they would prefer you don't is about as disrespectful as it gets.
In a worst case, the victim of your rudeness might take the law into his own hands, and depending on how threatened they feel by you, the consequences for you can range from inconvenient to tragic.
Most of the laws regarding street photography in the EU were changed after the photo mob chased down Princess Diana like a pack of dogs on a fox hunt.
10-01-2018, 08:38 AM   #34
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I could be wrong, but I think that if you're out in public in America, it's assumed that you have surrendered your right to privacy and are available to be photographed. However, simply having the right to do something does not mean it's the right thing to do. Many people, if they don't wish to be photographed, will give you some sort of indication. They might put a hand up...or shake their head...or maybe turn away from your camera. Common courtesy would say that you should honor their wishes and move on.

10-01-2018, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
snip
For the Americans on the forum, one really quick way to get laws surrounding this sort of thing changed is to be a jerk about your "First Amendment" rights. You either respect people or you don't, and taking their picture when they have made it plain they would prefer you don't is about as disrespectful as it gets.
In a worst case, the victim of your rudeness might take the law into his own hands, and depending on how threatened they feel by you, the consequences for you can range from snip
Wheatfield, I just do not believe that you understand just how difficult it is to change the US Constitution. I previously posted this link for something to illustrate the state of affairs surrounding "Street Photography" within the US. https://www.thephoblographer.com/2018/09/04/what-you-need-to-know-about-street-photography/ If a person "takes the law into their own hands" --- first it is not against the law to take photographs in public, this is not taking the law into their own hands, they are breaking the law.-- then they are guilty of assault -- plain and simple.

Now it is important to not be a jerk, so jamming a camera in someone's face is not, in general, a really good way to get that shot. Being sneaky is almost, but in my opinion, worse than jamming a camera in someone's face. It is important to be civil, but no, you do not "have" to delete the image to satisfy someone's request but then you don't have to purposefully be a jerk about it.

In the US, if you are in a public space, there is no expectation of privacy. This concept has been litigated to death and it ain't gonna change any time soon. And as I walk through the grocery store, I see that paparazzi are a popular in Europe and the US as ever and CCTV is everywhere - literally everywhere - in Europe.
10-01-2018, 02:52 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
Wheatfield, I just do not believe that you understand just how difficult it is to change the US Constitution. I previously posted this link for something to illustrate the state of affairs surrounding "Street Photography" within the US. The Most Basic Thing You Need To Know About Street Photography If a person "takes the law into their own hands" --- first it is not against the law to take photographs in public, this is not taking the law into their own hands, they are breaking the law.-- then they are guilty of assault -- plain and simple.
Or they may feel they are standing their ground, or engaging in justifiable self defence. People take the law into their own hands on a daily basis, much to the consternation of people who think they have rights.
There is such a thing as being dead right.

QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote

Now it is important to not be a jerk, so jamming a camera in someone's face is not, in general, a really good way to get that shot. Being sneaky is almost, but in my opinion, worse than jamming a camera in someone's face. It is important to be civil, but no, you do not "have" to delete the image to satisfy someone's request but then you don't have to purposefully be a jerk about it.

In the US, if you are in a public space, there is no expectation of privacy. This concept has been litigated to death and it ain't gonna change any time soon. And as I walk through the grocery store, I see that paparazzi are a popular in Europe and the US as ever and CCTV is everywhere - literally everywhere - in Europe.
Big Brother is watching. I realize that. What they can do is different from what you and I can do.

I won't get into the politics due to forum rules.
This might cross the line again, but there are Federal laws in place that abrogate the First Amendment.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 10-01-2018 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Removed political content
10-01-2018, 03:26 PM   #37
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I have a signed framed photo my dad took of the USS Nimitz when it was still in the Norfolk Navy docks before it was christened by Gerald Ford.
He caught a little flack from a few grunts but he charmed his way out of trouble and they let him keep the photos - it was days before the official unveiling and the shots were from the dock level not anywhere where detail would be revealed. It's interesting to me that this is now the oldest aircraft carrier in the US fleet...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-01-2018 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Deleted quoted post
10-01-2018, 03:31 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I have a signed framed photo my dad took of the USS Nimitz when it was still in the Norfolk Navy docks before it was christened by Gerald Ford.
He caught a little flack from a few grunts but he charmed his way out of trouble and they let him keep the photos - it was days before the official unveiling and the shots were from the dock level not anywhere where detail would be revealed. It's interesting to me that this is now the oldest aircraft carrier in the US fleet...
The Nimitz was commissioned on May 3, 1975, 18 U.S.C. 795 came into effect January 7, 2011.

10-01-2018, 03:36 PM   #39
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Folks, this is an interesting discussion, but please let's avoid anything political, per our forum rules. Thanks
10-01-2018, 03:48 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Folks, this is an interesting discussion, but please let's avoid anything political, per our forum rules. Thanks
Sorry Mike, I thought I was posting the legalese surrounding the discussion, complete with example, not politics.
This was my intent. Sorry if I crossed the line.
10-01-2018, 03:49 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Sorry Mike, I thought I was posting the legalese surrounding the discussion, complete with example, not politics.
This was my intent. Sorry if I crossed the line.
Not at all, Bill... no lines crossed The conversation kind of led into that, so I completely understand. You did indeed post the legalese, but since it's wrapped up in politics, well...
10-01-2018, 04:24 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The Nimitz was commissioned on May 3, 1975, 18 U.S.C. 795 came into effect January 7, 2011.
It was made in a restricted section of the port. I hadn't realized the statute was that young. Nevertheless people were barred from taking pictures in those areas.
10-01-2018, 06:17 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
It was made in a restricted section of the port. I hadn't realized the statute was that young. Nevertheless people were barred from taking pictures in those areas.
This might be an interesting read for our American friends.

Photography & First Amendment | Freedom Forum Institute

It turns out that photography isn't necessarily protected under the First Amendment.
10-01-2018, 08:54 PM   #44
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Good read. I'd say posting to social media is more than personal enjoyment and blurs the lines a bit in favor of protected speech. That technology as culture shift has the potential to change some future cases. Like everything, nothing is absolute. Especially when lawyers make money trying to determine how to interpret the gray areas best for their clients.
10-02-2018, 10:16 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Good read. I'd say posting to social media is more than personal enjoyment and blurs the lines a bit in favor of protected speech. That technology as culture shift has the potential to change some future cases. Like everything, nothing is absolute. Especially when lawyers make money trying to determine how to interpret the gray areas best for their clients.
I'm going to respectfully disagree regarding social media. My feeling is that social media is, with few exceptions, all about personal enjoyment and ego gratification. Certainly there are people who use Social Media as their own personal soapbox, but for every one of those, there are probably ten thousand whose sole use is posting pictures of their cats. Facebook friends or Twitter followers may count as an audience to receive the message, or it may not. Exactly what message are we supposed to take away from a picture of a sleeping cat?
I think one of the confusions regarding the First Amendment is that it is seen as some sort of universal right, which it isn't. It is strictly applied as what the Federal Government can ban, and has no bearing on what state or local governments can ban within their jurisdictions, and certainly has no bearing on what a private citizen can ban on his or her own premises.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 10-02-2018 at 10:58 AM.
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