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09-30-2018, 06:29 AM   #16
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Well did they just tell at photokina that they are putting most effort in 2019? What you could read from here is that they are already heading there. IF they would have announced everything now it woul have taken much away from next year. Most of their product announcements have been done after new year so far anyway. Cherryblossom time, around there anyway. There is no way of going the way what big brands are doing. If one is after those thing now and with premium prize. They are there. But if it is good, it will eventually come to pentax too. So looking forward of January/april..Pentax has their own calendar..

---------- Post added 09-30-18 at 16:31 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
This is what I mean. They are just afraid for a faillure that they are in wait and see mode. Study the market thil hell freezes over. As they did with releasing the full-frame that could have happend and be succesfull in 2014 instead of waiting until 2016.
But it has been quite succesfull at 2016 too.

09-30-2018, 06:45 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
What if they announce the KP 2 in 4-6 months and still no K3 replacement? That would upset a lot of users I think.
Possibly not if they manage to merge the two lines, by which I mean retain the overall dimensions of the KP, add a second card slot plus whatever else they deem necessary to shift it up to “flagship” APS-C status such as more AF points, higher frame rate, bigger buffer,

GPS and IR, and maybe offer a second slim battery grip to augment the small internal one, perhaps even a deeper hand grip with a supplementary battery.

QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
I think they are doing a scramble. Video was something they thought they could "ignore", but what comes with video is advancements that keep them competitive. Video requires EVF or at least LiveView and related data transfers and storage. There are so many technologies that have been ignored that it might be something incredibly difficult for the home office to assign internally. So, what I would do is take as much off-the-shelf hardware I have, re-use the K3 forms, build a new internal board, cram more into the same package, and give us a K3 III that is a Pentax video powerhouse. To me, that is the ONLY option they have to do in the next 6 months.
…and 4k video.

Edit: fixed error

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 09-30-2018 at 08:18 PM.
09-30-2018, 07:22 AM   #18
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I don't generally get hung up in all the behind the scenes workings of Pentax (or any other brand to which I'm loyal) as I've discovered my tastes aren't usually mainstream in terms of features and specs, but slightly outside the normal usage patterns, or at least slightly outside the patterns assumed/recognized by the planners and designers. This is across many types of technology products, as well.

With respect to Pentax introducing something new in an APS-C flagship, I sincerely hope they do, in early 2019, and I equally sincerely hope it's not a KP-based body, in terms of physical shape and layout. The technology of the KP is good, but the ergonomics of it don't work for me (and for many others, from what I'm seeing in web comments). It seems to me other Camara makers (who have historically had traditional DSLR models) aren't eschewing the traditional DSLR marketplace in favor of different designs or different ergonomics. Yes, mirrorless is a new niche, but CaNikon isn't dropping traditional DSLR body development to pursue it, to my knowledge. And while they make bodies in traditional and smaller physical sizes, they're not forgoing the traditional DSLR format shape to do so.

As an owner of the K-30 (my first DSLR), and a K-3, I get the compact body versus traditional body discussion. But the reality is, there is far less difference between the 30 and the 3 than there is between either of those and the KP, ergonomically.
09-30-2018, 07:23 AM - 2 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Possibly not if they manage to merge the two lines, by which I mean retain the overall dimensions of the KP, add a second card slot plus whatever else they deem necessary to shift it up to “flagship” APS-C status such as more AF points, higher frame rate, bigger buffer, wifi and IR, and maybe offer a second slim battery grip to augment the small internal one, perhaps even a deeper hand grip with a supplementary battery.



…and 4k video.
IIRC KP wasn’t intended to be a Flagship body. It was intended to compete size and ergonomics wise with a APSc mirrorless when one of the three pancakes is mounted.

I imagine a flagship APSc will be a traditional body with a fixed, large grip to house a large battery, full external K-1 style controls, dual cards and some Pentax tweaks.

IMO the hold up is re-engineering the entire platform. I’d guess K-3ll was the end of the K-7 platform and we’ll get entirely new innards, a leap forward in AF, Video and processing speed. Such might require new component suppliers, such as ditching Socionext, developing and sourcing a new AF sensor, new bus tech, some co-processors (like the Accelerator Unit) and perhaps another major evolution of IBIS. A different sensor supplier is possible.

All of that would require ground-up new coding - ditching SAFOX altogether, for instance - and would set the direction for all three mount platforms for a decade. If they’re even talking about 645 mirrorless they have to be building the hooks into new base code and motherboard designs.

AFA ceasing K-3ll before a replacement is ready, I’d bet that’s due to a component supplier issue - they might simply have run out of a critical part and couldn’t obtain a short, small run at the right price.

It all can make some sense if you think about Pentax make a leapfrog move from the constraints of their elderly base code to something they can build on for a long time.

That’s a rational, positive take on it anyway.


Last edited by monochrome; 10-06-2018 at 02:02 PM.
09-30-2018, 07:33 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve_k Quote
Discontinuing your flagship APS-C without a replacement is ridiculous.
Not if you want to reduce inventory to a minimum.

QuoteOriginally posted by steve_k Quote
Pentax IMHO is the best value out there. But it seems like they don’t care about those who support them.
They have limited R&D capability and short term financial targets from the mother company. That leads to making products such as the KP, which features what the previous models already featured (nothing new, except body design concept based on K1).

QuoteOriginally posted by steve_k Quote
It pisses me off.
If you focus on photography as opposed to camera equipment, you'll have no reason to be unhappy. Equipment doesn't matter much these days. The quality of images is excellent, 99% of the time not used to their enlargement potential. Very rare professionals who need more than camera such as Pentax K1 or D810 or D850/A7RIII/Z7 models, practically there isn't any difference in images results between those models. Even for wildlife, you can go a very long way while using an average equipment. We don't even see the potential of images from the K1, I can crop a 16:9 frame horizontally on a vertical K1 shoot and still see excellent detail when enlarged. The location, being able to travel, the lighting and the framing make the shot, the camera equipment is secondary, the lens focal length really add capability, but Pentax deliver FL from 15 to 450mm, everything is covered.

Last edited by Racer X 69; 09-30-2018 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Language.
09-30-2018, 07:52 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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Let's watch our language people. I have edited a couple posts for content.

You know who you are.
09-30-2018, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IIRC KP wasn’t intended to be a Flagship body. It was intended to compete size and ergonomics wise with a APSc mirrorless when one of the three pancakes is mounted.

I imagine a flagship APSc will be a traditional body with a fixed, large grip to house a large battery, full external K-1 style controls, dual cards and some Pentax tweaks.

IMO the hold up is re-engineering the entire platform. I’d guess K-3ll was the end of the K-7 platform and we’ll get entirely new innards, a leap forward in AF, Video and processing speed. Such might require new component suppliers, such as ditching Socionext, developing and sourcing a new AF sensor, new bus tech, some co-processors (like the Accelerator Unit) and perhaps another major evolution of IBIS. A different sensor supplier is possible.

All of that would require ground-up new coding - ditching SAFOX altogether, for instance - and would set the direction for all three platforms for a decade. If they’re even talking about 645 mirrorless they have to be building the hooks into new base code and motherboard designs.

AFA ceasing K-3ll before a replacement is ready, I’d bet that’s due to a component supplier issue - they might simply have run out of a critical part and couldn’t obtain a short, small run at the right price.

It all can make some sense if you think about Pentax make a leapfrog move from the constraints of their elderly base code to something they can build on for a long time.

That’s a rational, positive take on it anyway.
I agree! And I sometimes get a little bit annoyed with the frequent portraying the camera market as a race with only winners and losers. It disregards the fact that there is some space between winning and losing that can be a comfortable place to run a business. From a practical standpoint I can understand that not having a high end APC camera like the K-3 on the catalogue right now can cause a problem when you have to replace a K-3. I solved that by buying a used one for a very good price on my local Pentaxian forum. My previous K-3 fell overboard on assignment with a new DA*16-50mm, batterygrip, Røde microphone and Gitzo tripod with videohead. Without giving it much thought I dived right after it...with two iPhones in my pocket. (Apart from one iPhone, the camera and lens I rescued everything.)
09-30-2018, 08:03 AM   #23
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It could just be APS-C is on the way out. Nikon, Canon and Pentax last APS-C releases were all in 2017. Nikon's flagship D500 was released in 2016.
Then again 2019 is the 100th anniversary of both Pentax (Asahi Optical Co.) and Olympus and the next Photokina is only about six months away. It could be both brands/companies are holding out for then.

09-30-2018, 09:15 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote


If you focus on photography as opposed to camera equipment, you'll have no reason to be unhappy. Equipment doesn't matter much these days. The quality of images is excellent, 99% of the time not used to their enlargement potential. Very rare professionals who need more than camera such as Pentax K1 or D810 or D850/A7RIII/Z7 models, practically there isn't any difference in images results between those models. Even for wildlife, you can go a very long way while using an average equipment. We don't even see the potential of images from the K1, I can crop a 16:9 frame horizontally on a vertical K1 shoot and still see excellent detail when enlarged. The location, being able to travel, the lighting and the framing make the shot, the camera equipment is secondary, the lens focal length really add capability, but Pentax deliver FL from 15 to 450mm, everything is covered.
In many ways you are right, but the K1 has its let downs. USB 2 is very slow, makes tethering in studio work a fairly poor experience. If you are doing a lot of studio macro/creative work, or you are doing work with clients and they want to see every shot on a laptop, then this can be is a major hassle. A big part of why I would like an upgrade. Then there is the whole AF + video aspect.
09-30-2018, 09:43 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dericali Quote
In many ways you are right, but the K1 has its let downs. USB 2 is very slow, makes tethering in studio work a fairly poor experience. If you are doing a lot of studio macro/creative work, or you are doing work with clients and they want to see every shot on a laptop, then this can be is a major hassle. A big part of why I would like an upgrade. Then there is the whole AF + video aspect.
I’d say that there is only AF and tethering and buffer aspect. Video was not ment to be any better. It would be cool if they would put some effort to that but I doubt it. AF they are really already working with. Q&A of photokina 2018 they pointed out about mechanical SR for video and unexpected problem with it so that could imply that there is something going on at there too thou..?
09-30-2018, 09:44 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
What if they announce the KP 2 in 4-6 months and still no K3 replacement? That would upset a lot of users I think.
Depends on the specs!
09-30-2018, 10:06 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Possibly not if they manage to merge the two lines, by which I mean retain the overall dimensions of the KP, add a second card slot plus whatever else they deem necessary to shift it up to “flagship” APS-C status such as more AF points, higher frame rate, bigger buffer, wifi and IR, and maybe offer a second slim battery grip to augment the small internal one, perhaps even a deeper hand grip with a supplementary battery.
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Depends on the specs!
The problem is, as I read the reports from Photokina, they didn't even promise to keep an APS line. How can a reasonably conservative / cautious person like me spend on APS right now if they might release a series of truly wonderful FF bodies next year, and it turns out that we have reached the end of their APS lines??
09-30-2018, 10:26 AM   #28
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On my visit to Photokina (on Wednesday) I wasn't too much disappointed by the lack of new announcements. Pentax may have reasons for holding them back, I guess. I was disappointed, though, by the presentation: Not only was Pentax' booth just a quarter the size of the 2016 one, they didn't have a single K-1 brochure nor a lens and accessories catalogue, and some folks asked for the one or the other even while I was there.There were many lenses available for testing, but no 28-105. The Pentax guys I talked to were very kind and helpful (and one of them really knowledgable) but the rather extreme low-budget approach irritated them too. So no need to panic IMO, but still I'm worried a bit.
09-30-2018, 11:48 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dubyam Quote
I equally sincerely hope it's not a KP-based body, in terms of physical shape and layout.
Based on Ricoh's past announcements and introductions of new gear, I think they have the potential to surprise the 'market' again, possibly with something that no one has been tracking to date.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If you focus on photography as opposed to camera equipment, you'll have no reason to be unhappy.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fries Quote
And I sometimes get a little bit annoyed with the frequent portraying the camera market as a race with only winners and losers.

I agree. I am happily using my K-3 II and good lenses -- just picking it up and heading out for a photo session always brings a smile. However, people tend to become concerned when other companies introduce things at a relatively rapid pace and have a much larger presence at trade shows and expos. Ricoh/Pentax may be seen as 'falling behind' in the equipment 'race', even though they have designed very good gear that caters to a range of -- but not all -- user needs.

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It could just be APS-C is on the way out.
QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It could be both brands/companies are holding out for then.
These could be possibilities, but I don't think that Ricoh has revealed clear evidence that would substantiate either one.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
How can a reasonably conservative / cautious person like me spend on APS right now if they might release a series of truly wonderful FF bodies next year, and it turns out that we have reached the end of their APS lines??
Not knowing the future can make decisions to purchase new gear difficult. In my own situation, my K-3 II serves my needs pretty well. However, it's not perfect, and I could consider a replacement if Ricoh releases a new APS-C camera having new features or improved performance. I assume that my camera will continue to perform well for several years at least, so I am not in a dire situation. Earlier this year, my major purchase was a FA 43mm Limited lens, which filled a gap in my lens kit. It's a different situation when a manufacturer's line up doesn't offer equipment that you need now. I don't think we've seen any clear specific indications that Ricoh plans to drop their APS-C line or not -- they've just been sort of quiet.
09-30-2018, 11:51 AM   #30
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Since 2019 marks the 100th anniversary of Asahi Optical Company and Ricoh is planning to celebrate this world wide through various events, it appears they (Ricoh) is saving everything for 2019. Hopefully the 100th year anniversary will bring many surprises !?
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