What's the mirrorless winner - need your help please!

Nass · 10-14-2018, 08:15 AM

Hi,

I was hoping to canvass as wide a possible opinion base on which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. Investing in a new/unknown system is a big investment and I'd like to make sure I get it right for the medium term. If you could also explain why then that'd be really great

Thanks!!!

Last edited by Nass; 10-14-2018 at 08:23 AM. Reason: title

Ole · 10-14-2018, 08:56 AM - **3 Likes**

Your eyes!

automorphism · 10-14-2018, 09:03 AM

I don't think there will be a single leader, much like Canon and Nikon for DSLRs of the past. In terms of full-frame, I bet there will be a close battle between the L-Mount system (of the 'L-mount alliance') and Sony. For smaller-form sensors, I think the Micro 4/3rds mount will keep going on strong.

victormeldrew · 10-14-2018, 09:43 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Nass

which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years.

I don't think this race either exists, or is winnable if it does. I think, like all other formats, there will be several options suited to different photographers' needs/wants and budgets, with none of them triumphing once and for all, over all others.

**UncleVanya** · 10-14-2018, 09:44 AM

The market is really hard to read in this area. One thing is clear, m43 is very strong and if Panasonic / Leica / Sigma can pull off a similar thing in full frame it will be interesting. I wouldn't bet against Sony or Canon either both are powerhouses. Nikon and Fuji seem stable but not as likely to win large converts but both have value.

In short I wish I knew. I'd say Sony has the best market position to remain a leader, Canon has the best chance to push Sony hard and Pan-Leica has a chance at an standard that could catch on allowing a lot of competition and rapid lens developments. M43 is likely to slow growth as the system is mature and stable but has massive competition and everyone seems to think full frame is the only answer - nevermind medium format or larger!

ChristianRock · 10-14-2018, 10:57 AM

Nikon is said to be using a different sensor manufacturer these days and designing the sensors that they use.

**StiffLegged** · 10-14-2018, 11:11 AM

You're kidding. We have no more idea how the next 5-10 years are going to pan out than the Met Office can predict a barbecue summer. The only thing I'd suggest is to wait until next spring before committing, since there are more rabbits to pop out before long. Then make your own mind up on which system to blow all that money on. You're going to use it (presumably) so it has to suit your preferences, not those of whichever system's fanboys.

Video might be really important to you - doesn't matter two straws to me - or you might be printing really huge photos on to gallery paper, or posting gazillions of aurora photos on social media. Perhaps you specialise in 100-frame focus stacked macro/micro photography of local pond life or it might be street photography of the other, er, local pondlife. You don't mention what you're going to be doing with the new gear, so how could anyone advise?

Last edited by StiffLegged; 10-14-2018 at 11:18 AM.

alpheios · 10-14-2018, 11:13 AM - **3 Likes**

Try them out, buy the camera that best suits YOUR needs. But the most important thing is to stop thinking about gear and use your time and energy to be creative and take photographs.

Oh and take a few minutes to watch this:

Youtu.be

Nass · 10-14-2018, 11:23 AM - **1 Like**

Yes, thankyouverymuch for your advice about how to choose a camera system - I'm not entirely unfamiliar with photography. But, I'll be honest, it's not terribly helpful - not what I'm asking or why.

I do completely appreciate it's crystal ball gazing and that's tricky and a bit of a stretch. But if folks could give their informed opinion relating to the actual question that would be helpful

agp1337 · 10-14-2018, 12:51 PM - **2 Likes**

In addition to my trusty K1 and KP system and various lenses I have just bought a Fuji xe-3, simply because I was fed up with the bulk and weight of the Pentax. I'm delighted with it, and have the 18-55 and 55-200 lenses. The 18-55 is not the standard cheap 'kit' lens, but is high quality. No regrets at all. However, this morning it was pouring with rain, so I used the KP for an essential shot, as the Fuji isn't as rugged, or waterproof.

It's horses for courses, choose the right one for the job. The electronic viewfinder on the Fuji is fantastic, especially when shooting video, as I do like holding the camera to my eye, makes it more steady. It is lovely not having so much weight, and really easy to use, aperture is set on the lens, shutter speeds on one dial, exposure compensation on another, as in the old days!

I'll probably sell the KP system and use the heavy K1 where top quality, and ruggedness in all weathers, are needed. Hate to say it, but if I was starting afresh I'd go Fuji over KP.

bigdavephoto · 10-14-2018, 02:23 PM

Not in the market for mirrorless myself. In my opinion, I think both Nikon and Canon might have done something to bite into the Sony market. That is that they both along with the introduction of their MILC camera's, they also both introduced a native adapter to use their current lenses and some older ones with the new camera's. The great thing about these adapters is that you don't loose any functions of the lenses.

If I was going to look at MILC, I would take a close look at both Canon and Nikon.

**seventhdr** · 10-14-2018, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Nass

Hi,

I was hoping to canvass as wide a possible opinion base on which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. Investing in a new/unknown system is a big investment and I'd like to make sure I get it right for the medium term. If you could also explain why then that'd be really great

Thanks!!!

I think Canon and Sony will be the two front runners in the full frame mirrorless market with other manufacturers being lot smaller.

Sony is on to their third iteration on mirrorless on four lines (A7, A7R, A7S and A9) which puts them a couple of generations ahead of all the rest of the market.

Canon on the other hand has DEEP R&D pockets. Their EOS R camera is a well thought out middle of the road design. It would not surprise me is in 2019 we saw a high speced pro series camera join the EOS R. They also have great ideas on their lenses and adapters.

Regards

Chris

**jumbleview** · 10-14-2018, 03:47 PM - **1 Like**

Oops!!! Clicked the wrong link. I was looking for the photo forum but get fortune teller site instead...

**jumbleview** · 10-14-2018, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by agp1337

It's horses for courses, choose the right one for the job. The electronic viewfinder on the Fuji is fantastic, especially when shooting video, as I do like holding the camera to my eye, makes it more steady. It is lovely not having so much weight, and really easy to use, aperture is set on the lens, shutter speeds on one dial, exposure compensation on another, as in the old days!

Ergonomics aside, what can you tell about the comparison of KP and Fuji image quality? Is KP really behind?

**beachgardener** · 10-14-2018, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by alpheios

Oh and take a few minutes to watch this:

yeah nice video, completely agree

10-14-2018, 08:15 AM	#1
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	What's the mirrorless winner - need your help please! Hi, I was hoping to canvass as wide a possible opinion base on which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. Investing in a new/unknown system is a big investment and I'd like to make sure I get it right for the medium term. If you could also explain why then that'd be really great Thanks!!! Last edited by Nass; 10-14-2018 at 08:23 AM. Reason: title

10-14-2018, 12:51 PM - 2 Likes	#10
agp1337 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 46	In addition to my trusty K1 and KP system and various lenses I have just bought a Fuji xe-3, simply because I was fed up with the bulk and weight of the Pentax. I'm delighted with it, and have the 18-55 and 55-200 lenses. The 18-55 is not the standard cheap 'kit' lens, but is high quality. No regrets at all. However, this morning it was pouring with rain, so I used the KP for an essential shot, as the Fuji isn't as rugged, or waterproof. It's horses for courses, choose the right one for the job. The electronic viewfinder on the Fuji is fantastic, especially when shooting video, as I do like holding the camera to my eye, makes it more steady. It is lovely not having so much weight, and really easy to use, aperture is set on the lens, shutter speeds on one dial, exposure compensation on another, as in the old days! I'll probably sell the KP system and use the heavy K1 where top quality, and ruggedness in all weathers, are needed. Hate to say it, but if I was starting afresh I'd go Fuji over KP. Last edited by agp1337; 10-14-2018 at 12:52 PM. Reason: error

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10-14-2018, 08:56 AM - 3 Likes	#2
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	Your eyes!

10-14-2018, 09:03 AM	#3
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	I don't think there will be a single leader, much like Canon and Nikon for DSLRs of the past. In terms of full-frame, I bet there will be a close battle between the L-Mount system (of the 'L-mount alliance') and Sony. For smaller-form sensors, I think the Micro 4/3rds mount will keep going on strong.

10-14-2018, 09:43 AM - 1 Like	#4
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Originally posted by Nass which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. I don't think this race either exists, or is winnable if it does. I think, like all other formats, there will be several options suited to different photographers' needs/wants and budgets, with none of them triumphing once and for all, over all others.

10-14-2018, 09:44 AM	#5
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,398	The market is really hard to read in this area. One thing is clear, m43 is very strong and if Panasonic / Leica / Sigma can pull off a similar thing in full frame it will be interesting. I wouldn't bet against Sony or Canon either both are powerhouses. Nikon and Fuji seem stable but not as likely to win large converts but both have value. In short I wish I knew. I'd say Sony has the best market position to remain a leader, Canon has the best chance to push Sony hard and Pan-Leica has a chance at an standard that could catch on allowing a lot of competition and rapid lens developments. M43 is likely to slow growth as the system is mature and stable but has massive competition and everyone seems to think full frame is the only answer - nevermind medium format or larger!

10-14-2018, 10:57 AM	#6
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Nikon is said to be using a different sensor manufacturer these days and designing the sensors that they use.

10-14-2018, 11:11 AM	#7
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,616	You're kidding. We have no more idea how the next 5-10 years are going to pan out than the Met Office can predict a barbecue summer. The only thing I'd suggest is to wait until next spring before committing, since there are more rabbits to pop out before long. Then make your own mind up on which system to blow all that money on. You're going to use it (presumably) so it has to suit your preferences, not those of whichever system's fanboys. Video might be really important to you - doesn't matter two straws to me - or you might be printing really huge photos on to gallery paper, or posting gazillions of aurora photos on social media. Perhaps you specialise in 100-frame focus stacked macro/micro photography of local pond life or it might be street photography of the other, er, local pondlife. You don't mention what you're going to be doing with the new gear, so how could anyone advise? Last edited by StiffLegged; 10-14-2018 at 11:18 AM.

10-14-2018, 11:23 AM - 1 Like	#9
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402 Original Poster	Yes, thankyouverymuch for your advice about how to choose a camera system - I'm not entirely unfamiliar with photography. But, I'll be honest, it's not terribly helpful - not what I'm asking or why. I do completely appreciate it's crystal ball gazing and that's tricky and a bit of a stretch. But if folks could give their informed opinion relating to the actual question that would be helpful

10-14-2018, 02:23 PM	#11
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893	Not in the market for mirrorless myself. In my opinion, I think both Nikon and Canon might have done something to bite into the Sony market. That is that they both along with the introduction of their MILC camera's, they also both introduced a native adapter to use their current lenses and some older ones with the new camera's. The great thing about these adapters is that you don't loose any functions of the lenses. If I was going to look at MILC, I would take a close look at both Canon and Nikon.

10-14-2018, 03:24 PM	#12
seventhdr Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,439	Originally posted by Nass Hi, I was hoping to canvass as wide a possible opinion base on which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. Investing in a new/unknown system is a big investment and I'd like to make sure I get it right for the medium term. If you could also explain why then that'd be really great Thanks!!! I think Canon and Sony will be the two front runners in the full frame mirrorless market with other manufacturers being lot smaller. Sony is on to their third iteration on mirrorless on four lines (A7, A7R, A7S and A9) which puts them a couple of generations ahead of all the rest of the market. Canon on the other hand has DEEP R&D pockets. Their EOS R camera is a well thought out middle of the road design. It would not surprise me is in 2019 we saw a high speced pro series camera join the EOS R. They also have great ideas on their lenses and adapters. Regards Chris

10-14-2018, 03:47 PM - 1 Like	#13
jumbleview Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 1,068	Oops!!! Clicked the wrong link. I was looking for the photo forum but get fortune teller site instead...

10-14-2018, 04:58 PM	#14
jumbleview Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 1,068	Originally posted by agp1337 It's horses for courses, choose the right one for the job. The electronic viewfinder on the Fuji is fantastic, especially when shooting video, as I do like holding the camera to my eye, makes it more steady. It is lovely not having so much weight, and really easy to use, aperture is set on the lens, shutter speeds on one dial, exposure compensation on another, as in the old days! Ergonomics aside, what can you tell about the comparison of KP and Fuji image quality? Is KP really behind?

10-14-2018, 05:56 PM	#15
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by alpheios Oh and take a few minutes to watch this: yeah nice video, completely agree

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