A simpler camera

thazooo · 10-19-2018, 06:47 AM - **1 Like**

If they'd make it I'd buy it. As it is now when I get a new body I run thru the menu once and set everything up the way I need it. After that the camera will stay in Av or M for the rest of it's life. If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for. It's not that I refuse to learn or adapt, I'm an old geek and enjoy Tech, I've just developed a Ritual when shooting that I enjoy as much as the end product.

ikandree · 10-19-2018, 08:09 AM

From experience with my own family, if they want a camera for "better pictures", they buy an expensive DSLR, keep the kit lens, leave it on Auto, and use the camera flash nearly every time. That if often their idea of a nice "no frills" camera. I know my family would never pay for a simple camera when their phone is simple enough. No, they'll shell out good money for a DSLR with lots of buzzwords but never use a fraction of the features they paid for.

murrelet · 10-19-2018, 08:45 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee

Do you think there is a market for a simpler camera? with less controls? let's say a digital version of LX?

Yes. I spend my time in front of a computer during my day job. Last thing I want to do is to spend my free time interfacing with another computer, which digital cameras have become, in my opinion. I don't want to deal with firmware updates, a ton of buttons to features I don't want or use, 9 layers of menus to get at features I do want, futzing with a Bluetooth pairing that won't connect. That's part of why I jumped ship a few years ago and went back to analog film virtually 100% of the time. I sold my K100D, my Fuji X70 is used pretty much as a light meter now, and I keep my Q on reserve to do some very specialized stuff. I still scan, digitize, and catalog my negatives in Lightroom. So I haven't gone totally with an analog workflow.

But to get at your original question... I think there's a market. And the supply is already here. It's just not digital.

runswithsizzers · 10-19-2018, 08:47 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee

I know friends and families who were and are really good photographers with film cameras but just never felt confident with digital cameras.

Those film cameras are still available, and at very good prices, too! Just find a lab that returns high quality scans with your processed film and you will have some very nice digital files from the camera you prefer using.

victormeldrew · 10-19-2018, 09:13 AM

A lot of people here need to look at the Ricoh GR.

**jlstrawman** · 10-19-2018, 10:03 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee

Would you agree that cameras have become extremely complicated?

I, for one enjoy complicated. Choice of options is a good thing. With the abundance of websites, manuals, and videos detailing exactly how to use
the many features and menus, it becomes quite easy to master any electronic device.

Read the manual, and make use of the many resources of this great website.

**ThorSanchez** · 10-19-2018, 10:10 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by thazooo

If they'd make it I'd buy it. As it is now when I get a new body I run thru the menu once and set everything up the way I need it. After that the camera will stay in Av or M for the rest of it's life. If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for. It's not that I refuse to learn or adapt, I'm an old geek and enjoy Tech, I've just developed a Ritual when shooting that I enjoy as much as the end product.

And the bolded part is the problem. You set up all these settings then forget them after they're the way you want. On a super-simple camera those settings don't exist. Those choices were made by the engineers who designed the camera. If they're not the way you like it, well, too bad.

---------- Post added 10-19-18 at 01:12 PM ----------

Originally posted by jlstrawman

I, for one enjoy complicated. Choice of options is a good thing. With the abundance of websites, manuals, and videos detailing exactly how to use
the many features and menus, it becomes quite easy to master any electronic device.

Read the manual, and make use of the many resources of this great website.

One person's complicated is another's configurable. I'd rather make the choices on what features to use than leave it up to someone else.

automorphism · 10-19-2018, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee

Do you think there is a market for a simpler camera? with less controls? let's say a digital version of LX?

No, definitely not. Especially since you can get a DSLR and ignore most of the features because of the physical controls, or use an Google Pixel 3.

**ThorSanchez** · 10-19-2018, 10:56 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by automorphism

No, definitely not. Especially since you can get a DSLR and ignore most of the features because of the physical controls, or use an Google Pixel 3.

I think it's pretty clear that for a huge percentage of people who want a simple camera a smartphone is the answer. Almost everyone has one already, and it doesn't get much simpler than tapping the camera icon, then tapping the shutter button.

**Alex645** · 10-19-2018, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by thazooo

If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for.

True, but even camcorders are now replaced by smart phones. As I teach both photography and video, I agree camcorders are easier to use than DSLRs, but DSLRs create better videos because:

a) No motorized zoom function=no ugly zooming in the videos.
b) Less effective AF=more manual focusing without the focus searching in the video.
c) Better optics and low light capability=better bokeh with larger apertures and sensors.

Most photographers never use the video function on their DSLRs and most videographers rarely use the still photo function on their DSLRs, but as much as I like the idea of the Nikon Df, I think it would bother me if my DSLR had no video capability. (I'm a flip phone convertee that can't give up my smart phone. Free light meter apps!!!)

thazooo · 10-19-2018, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

And the bolded part is the problem. You set up all these settings then forget them after they're the way you want. On a super-simple camera those settings don't exist. Those choices were made by the engineers who designed the camera. If they're not the way you like it, well, too bad.

Have to disagree, OP was talking LX not an HP Photosmart. LX simple would allow for some settings changes. Color space, since digi WB, and maybe I wouldn't have to select....Use Aperture ring..........

**RobA_Oz** · 10-19-2018, 01:54 PM

Those who yearn for simplicity are helping stock aged care homes with dementia sufferers. Complexity is nothing more than a lot of simple things assembled in one place, and it’s fairly well-established that having to work hard to learn something is actually good for your brain. Needless over-complication, though, is quite another thing.

**beachgardener** · 10-19-2018, 07:44 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Those who yearn for simplicity are helping stock aged care homes with dementia sufferers. Complexity is nothing more than a lot of simple things assembled in one place, and it’s fairly well-established that having to work hard to learn something is actually good for your brain.

On the contrary, many use the modern camera mainly point and shoot from what I can gather. Having a manual only camera and no screen, the brain will have to work hard to have the camera record pleasing images

**RobA_Oz** · 10-19-2018, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by beachgardener

On the contrary, many use the modern camera mainly point and shoot from what I can gather. Having a manual only camera and no screen, the brain will have to work hard to have the camera record pleasing images

...which by definition isn’t simplicity.

PizzaDon · 10-20-2018, 02:12 AM

I don't mind complex, my problem at my age is remembering so I need to carry the camera's manual with me just in case.

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10-19-2018, 06:47 AM - 1 Like	#16
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	If they'd make it I'd buy it. As it is now when I get a new body I run thru the menu once and set everything up the way I need it. After that the camera will stay in Av or M for the rest of it's life. If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for. It's not that I refuse to learn or adapt, I'm an old geek and enjoy Tech, I've just developed a Ritual when shooting that I enjoy as much as the end product.

10-19-2018, 08:09 AM	#17
ikandree New Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 20	From experience with my own family, if they want a camera for "better pictures", they buy an expensive DSLR, keep the kit lens, leave it on Auto, and use the camera flash nearly every time. That if often their idea of a nice "no frills" camera. I know my family would never pay for a simple camera when their phone is simple enough. No, they'll shell out good money for a DSLR with lots of buzzwords but never use a fraction of the features they paid for.

10-19-2018, 08:45 AM - 1 Like	#18
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee Do you think there is a market for a simpler camera? with less controls? let's say a digital version of LX? Yes. I spend my time in front of a computer during my day job. Last thing I want to do is to spend my free time interfacing with another computer, which digital cameras have become, in my opinion. I don't want to deal with firmware updates, a ton of buttons to features I don't want or use, 9 layers of menus to get at features I do want, futzing with a Bluetooth pairing that won't connect. That's part of why I jumped ship a few years ago and went back to analog film virtually 100% of the time. I sold my K100D, my Fuji X70 is used pretty much as a light meter now, and I keep my Q on reserve to do some very specialized stuff. I still scan, digitize, and catalog my negatives in Lightroom. So I haven't gone totally with an analog workflow. But to get at your original question... I think there's a market. And the supply is already here. It's just not digital.

10-19-2018, 08:47 AM - 3 Likes	#19
runswithsizzers Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: USA Posts: 186	Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee I know friends and families who were and are really good photographers with film cameras but just never felt confident with digital cameras. Those film cameras are still available, and at very good prices, too! Just find a lab that returns high quality scans with your processed film and you will have some very nice digital files from the camera you prefer using.

10-19-2018, 09:13 AM	#20
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	A lot of people here need to look at the Ricoh GR.

10-19-2018, 10:03 AM - 3 Likes	#21
jlstrawman Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Midwest US Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,058	Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee Would you agree that cameras have become extremely complicated? I, for one enjoy complicated. Choice of options is a good thing. With the abundance of websites, manuals, and videos detailing exactly how to use the many features and menus, it becomes quite easy to master any electronic device. Read the manual, and make use of the many resources of this great website.

10-19-2018, 10:10 AM - 2 Likes	#22
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by thazooo If they'd make it I'd buy it. As it is now when I get a new body I run thru the menu once and set everything up the way I need it. After that the camera will stay in Av or M for the rest of it's life. If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for. It's not that I refuse to learn or adapt, I'm an old geek and enjoy Tech, I've just developed a Ritual when shooting that I enjoy as much as the end product. And the bolded part is the problem. You set up all these settings then forget them after they're the way you want. On a super-simple camera those settings don't exist. Those choices were made by the engineers who designed the camera. If they're not the way you like it, well, too bad. ---------- Post added 10-19-18 at 01:12 PM ---------- Originally posted by jlstrawman I, for one enjoy complicated. Choice of options is a good thing. With the abundance of websites, manuals, and videos detailing exactly how to use the many features and menus, it becomes quite easy to master any electronic device. Read the manual, and make use of the many resources of this great website. One person's complicated is another's configurable. I'd rather make the choices on what features to use than leave it up to someone else.

10-19-2018, 10:50 AM	#23
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	Originally posted by Samwise.Gamgee Do you think there is a market for a simpler camera? with less controls? let's say a digital version of LX? No, definitely not. Especially since you can get a DSLR and ignore most of the features because of the physical controls, or use an Google Pixel 3.

10-19-2018, 10:56 AM - 1 Like	#24
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by automorphism No, definitely not. Especially since you can get a DSLR and ignore most of the features because of the physical controls, or use an Google Pixel 3. I think it's pretty clear that for a huge percentage of people who want a simple camera a smartphone is the answer. Almost everyone has one already, and it doesn't get much simpler than tapping the camera icon, then tapping the shutter button.

10-19-2018, 11:28 AM	#25
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by thazooo If I want video, that's what the Camcorders for. True, but even camcorders are now replaced by smart phones. As I teach both photography and video, I agree camcorders are easier to use than DSLRs, but DSLRs create better videos because: a) No motorized zoom function=no ugly zooming in the videos. b) Less effective AF=more manual focusing without the focus searching in the video. c) Better optics and low light capability=better bokeh with larger apertures and sensors. Most photographers never use the video function on their DSLRs and most videographers rarely use the still photo function on their DSLRs, but as much as I like the idea of the Nikon Df, I think it would bother me if my DSLR had no video capability. (I'm a flip phone convertee that can't give up my smart phone. Free light meter apps!!!)

10-19-2018, 01:35 PM	#26
thazooo Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 854	Originally posted by ThorSanchez And the bolded part is the problem. You set up all these settings then forget them after they're the way you want. On a super-simple camera those settings don't exist. Those choices were made by the engineers who designed the camera. If they're not the way you like it, well, too bad. Have to disagree, OP was talking LX not an HP Photosmart. LX simple would allow for some settings changes. Color space, since digi WB, and maybe I wouldn't have to select....Use Aperture ring..........

10-19-2018, 01:54 PM	#27
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Those who yearn for simplicity are helping stock aged care homes with dementia sufferers. Complexity is nothing more than a lot of simple things assembled in one place, and it’s fairly well-established that having to work hard to learn something is actually good for your brain. Needless over-complication, though, is quite another thing.

10-19-2018, 07:44 PM - 1 Like	#28
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Those who yearn for simplicity are helping stock aged care homes with dementia sufferers. Complexity is nothing more than a lot of simple things assembled in one place, and it’s fairly well-established that having to work hard to learn something is actually good for your brain. On the contrary, many use the modern camera mainly point and shoot from what I can gather. Having a manual only camera and no screen, the brain will have to work hard to have the camera record pleasing images

10-19-2018, 10:35 PM	#29
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by beachgardener On the contrary, many use the modern camera mainly point and shoot from what I can gather. Having a manual only camera and no screen, the brain will have to work hard to have the camera record pleasing images ...which by definition isn’t simplicity.

10-20-2018, 02:12 AM	#30
PizzaDon Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: central Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 363	I don't mind complex, my problem at my age is remembering so I need to carry the camera's manual with me just in case.