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11-27-2018, 07:02 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
But you can sit him down in his study, light him properly, and get the obligatory photo of his giant fake-looking smile, which you know is unusable, it's just to let him cope with the artificial situation. Take another picture immediately he gives up the smile and relaxes. That one's the keeper.
Two month ago I tried to relax a friend of mine. She is a pretty woman, only when she poses, she believes that she gives me the best look, but it's terrible one. She started "attacking" me with her poses right from the moment before the first shot. We had fun when I yelled at her stop! please just stop, and don't do anything, stop chasing me all over! Take a breath, and get lost ... yes, go there, soak your feet in the ocean, and just walk like you usually do. I got two keepers. Later we reviewed all images, and I proved her there is not double chin and no other problems if she is relaxed. I showed her the difference between tensed body and relaxed body, and explained that her best image is how people see her, and the worst one is what she tries to be inside, but outside her tense muscles create totally different woman with that double chin when she always hates to see on her pictures.

I'm even worse than her in the front of the camera, therefore I don't have any pictures of myself.

11-27-2018, 10:39 AM - 2 Likes   #17
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Human expressions are dynamic. A single frame taken during laughter can look like insanity. A single frame taken mid-blink can make someone look sleepy or stoned.

Good editors should avoid such frames, but some news outlets and political organizations are especially prone to selecting extreme photos.


11-27-2018, 02:20 PM - 3 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
almost 100 % of the time any error with my photography is " operator error "
I blame people who look at my pictures and find fault with them. I hate that.
11-27-2018, 03:06 PM - 2 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Yup, I blame the model for poor photos all the time. It's supposed to be a collaboration and they are so often insolent - sometimes it even escalates into shouting matches and kicking over furniture.

Self portraiture is tougher than most people think
(Laughs)

Also brings to mind the quote from Ben Jonson, who was Shakespeare's more senior and well-regarded playwright rival back in the day: "He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master."


Last edited by clackers; 11-27-2018 at 03:55 PM.
11-27-2018, 03:22 PM - 2 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
. . . Also brings to mind the quote from Ben Jonson, who was Shakespeare's playwright rival back in the day: "He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master."
similar to

" a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client "
11-27-2018, 03:54 PM - 3 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
Two month ago I tried to relax a friend of mine. She is a pretty woman, only when she poses, she believes that she gives me the best look, but it's terrible one. She started "attacking" me with her poses right from the moment before the first shot. We had fun when I yelled at her stop! please just stop, and don't do anything, stop chasing me all over! Take a breath, and get lost ... yes, go there, soak your feet in the ocean, and just walk like you usually do. I got two keepers. Later we reviewed all images, and I proved her there is not double chin and no other problems if she is relaxed. I showed her the difference between tensed body and relaxed body, and explained that her best image is how people see her, and the worst one is what she tries to be inside, but outside her tense muscles create totally different woman with that double chin when she always hates to see on her pictures.
Sure, that's a stage the two of you have to push through. IIRC, Richard Avedon would shoot the first minutes of a session without film in the camera - the subject wasn't to know.

Because they're your friend, and you're shooting digital (electrons are kinda free) then you can take some time, but get pics of her transitions between the set poses, some of which may be keepers. As they loosen up, and you encourage more adventure, some pics start happening and the end of the session can be where it all happens.

Shooting this model in a workshop had the usual constraints of five/ten minute slots. In my first go, I had trouble getting her to break out of very artificial poses (that do have their place). This is representative of the pics, Sigma 24mm:




The second time round was at the end of the day - she remembered I'd joked with her, had shot fast and relaxed, and now was happy to do more artsy exercises, such as shutting her eyes, and opening them on a count of three, to get something unforced, very Avedon now I look at it again. I am not shooting from afar with the 70-200 that was in my bag, we're two people who didn't know each other this morning, in each other's personal space with the FA77, it gives a totally different feel, physical proximity/emotional proximity:



If I were to run into her again in the future, I know the pictures we'd take would be great, we understand each other. She isn't a particularly sociable person, very pretty with an impressive physique but would be hit on every time she went out, so draining! There's a cool defensiveness that I reckon would really come through with either High Fashion in a studio or grungey in an urban setting.

Now, I had no luck at all in one workshop with posing a model with a Lamborghini. The organizer didn't realize she was Brazilian and spoke almost no English. It wasn't possible to direct her properly, let alone develop rapport. I think there was a bit of collective failure, us togs just thought she said nothing because she was shy, but it was worse than that. Everyone's pics contained the expressions of someone struggling to come to terms with a situation. I'll put pics from this up in the future, do look out for them.

Last edited by clackers; 11-27-2018 at 04:18 PM.
11-27-2018, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
"He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master."
A wise observation. But when I get things wrong (which is frequently, though slowly decreasing), at least I can lay the responsibility firmly at the feet of my master. Of course, I take personal credit when I get it right
11-27-2018, 05:05 PM - 1 Like   #23
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Yeah, if it's someone posing for the camera while acting up, that is one thing. But when it comes to candids, it is a matter of careful observation and firing with great speed and punctuality at just the right time. It is catching a particular look, gesture, expression, a moment in time. It isn't just sports or a BIF requiring the necessary reflexes of fast-action photography!

As for those taking photos of me, I know it is the fault of the model, not the photographer!

11-27-2018, 05:28 PM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Yeah, if it's someone posing for the camera while acting up, that is one thing. But when it comes to candids, it is a matter of careful observation and firing with great speed and punctuality at just the right time. It is catching a particular look, gesture, expression, a moment in time. It isn't just sports or a BIF requiring the necessary reflexes of fast-action photography!

As for those taking photos of me, I know it is the fault of the model, not the photographer!
Yeah, I think sports and street photography are very similar in that respect - I enjoy both. Timing is everything, but you make your own luck. If you understand the activity, you can predict the times when it's worth putting the camera up to your eye and take some frames.

Here I was very close to two people who I'm not sure even really knew each other but started dancing to a Latin track in a festival. They got used to me being right there, and I took pics like this (K-S2, Sigma 17-70mm):



As the music and motion wound down, they began to disengage from each other, and I kept AF-C on them, job not yet done. And just as well, the resulting pic I think was the best of the sequence, because you can see they really, really loved what had happened. He's "in", according to the slang of my youth.

11-27-2018, 05:40 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Here I was very close to two people who I'm not sure even really knew each other but started dancing to a Latin track in a festival. They got used to me being right there, and I took pics like this (K-S2, Sigma 17-70mm):

As the music and motion wound down, they began to disengage from each other, and I kept AF-C on them, job not yet done. And just as well, the resulting pic I think was the best of the sequence, because you can see they really, really loved what had happened. He's "in", according to the slang of my youth.
Those are both excellent shots, but even better when viewed together. There's a progression to them that I really like.

And, yes - "He's in"
11-27-2018, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Those are both excellent shots, but even better when viewed together. There's a progression to them that I really like.

And, yes - "He's in"
Yes, some 'horizontal dancing' will follow if she has anything to do with it. My gut feeling was she was single, but he's taken.
11-27-2018, 05:54 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, some 'horizontal dancing' will follow if she has anything to do with it. My gut feeling was she was single, but he's taken.
Ha ha. Yeah, his body language and facial expressions are interesting. More complicated than hers, I think
11-27-2018, 09:08 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Now, I had no luck at all in one workshop with posing a model with a Lamborghini. The organizer didn't realize she was Brazilian and spoke almost no English. It wasn't possible to direct her properly, let alone develop rapport. I think there was a bit of collective failure, us togs just thought she said nothing because she was shy, but it was worse than that. Everyone's pics contained the expressions of someone struggling to come to terms with a situation. I'll put pics from this up in the future, do look out for them.
She does not look like very experienced model, and with lack of communication plus with group session I believe you almost had no chance to relax her completely.
11-27-2018, 09:31 PM - 2 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
She does not look like very experienced model, and with lack of communication plus with group session I believe you almost had no chance to relax her completely.
The Brazilian's *another* person, Lana!

Neither were experienced, but you could definitely work on the one you could speak to, be understood, and vica versa.

In your OP, you had someone who wouldn't take advice, here there was someone who couldn't. The eyes are the giveaway, she's worried. If I had my way, we'd have taken a break at a local bar, had a couple to 'loosen up', then go back to finish. There's a responsibility on us as photographers to change the state of mind of our subjects as much as ISO or shutter speed to make them look good. An amateur's attitude of 'hope for the best' isn't tolerated by a pro, you have to act for the sake of the two of you and your project, whatever it is.

See below for the problematic session. I threw everything away except for a few pics. K-1, Sigma 85mm f1.4:





Last edited by clackers; 11-27-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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