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01-03-2019, 02:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
they also mention dark current, if you read carefully.
Yeah, as does Beholder's OP.

But dark current isn't the only problem engineers had to overcome, problems that seem to offset the fact that each BSI pixel should be getting much more light (up to 50 percent more, according to the magazine 'Photonics' referenced by Wiki) than a conventional one that has wiring in its vicinity.

And maybe that's why for all its cost, it seems to underperform even in DxOMark's convoluted/misleading figures.

You can see in the 'Print' estimates, this very new sensor doesn't seem to show a performance gain against the very old K-1 sensor, which is really a double helping of the old K-5 wafer.

It gets worse if you look at the only figures they actually measured, the second 'Screen' ones. These are free of the assumption that more pixels will let you average more noise away, they're as close as we get to raw data.

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01-03-2019, 04:39 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
And maybe that's why for all its cost, it seems to underperform even in DxOMark's convoluted/misleading figures.
When I compare images from the imaging resource site, between K1 and D850 , the D850 images have less noise and more detail at same ISO, I attribute that D850 advantage to BSI. Of course the D850 is significantly more expansive than a K1, but I compare just for the sake of knowing what could be possible in the future. Currently, my opinion is that the D850 currently is the best most expensive FF camera of the market, mirrorless is a joke, and Pentax could in the future think of reusing the sensor of the D850 while keeping all the rest Pentax style camera design.
01-03-2019, 04:58 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Pentax could in the future think of reusing the sensor of the D850 while keeping all the rest Pentax style camera design.
Yes, I think that would make a lot of sense, BE.

If as per the OP it's more susceptible than older sensors to noise in long exposures, that might hurt Pentaxian astrophotographers, but it's 'swings and roundabouts', as they say.

With respect to Imaging Resource, you're looking at the results of the camera's JPG engine, sharpening, noise reduction and so on. That's of *some* interest, but I think the people who care most about these things develop their own RAW.

DxO are a raw developer company and can claim to be really measuring the noise in the file. Their methodology of course can be questioned. They then go away and do silly things with those measurements witness the normalization, and the 'Sports' score, for instance.

Last edited by clackers; 01-03-2019 at 05:17 AM.
01-03-2019, 05:03 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
If as per the OP it's more susceptible than older sensors to noise in long exposures, that might hurt Pentaxian astrophotographers, but it's 'swings and roundabouts', as they say.
There is an assumption from Beholder that BSI makes more noise in complete darkness. It's an assumption. It can be tested by shooting a dark frame with both K1 and D850. That kind of test is completely missing from DXO or D4KVReview (Digital 4K Video Review, formerly known in the past as DPReview when they were evaluating real still cameras).

01-03-2019, 05:21 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That kind of test is completely missing from DXO or D4KVReview (Digital 4K Video Review, formerly known in the past as DPReview when they were evaluating real still cameras).
Yeah, I think one kind of interesting test would be to shoot astro, and Deep Space Objects.

But I think the reviewers of Fstoppers and DPR and The Angry Photographer and Fro Knows struggle to even remember to take a lens cap off, let alone do serious science or journalism, BE.

How do we get you a job with a YouTube channel?

Even that Chris Nicolls of the old CameraVille I think was aware he wasn't good enough or familiar enough to review the K-1 and he brought in an experienced guy (I think a 645Z shooter), including to take the fast action shots while he puttered around with the DFA100mm Macro taking pictures of plants. The real photographer with the K-1 with the DFA 70-200 focused very well on the running scene through trees, so Chris decided to think of another objection to action shooting - frame rate. So much for the autofocus criticism, he had to find something else.

Yep, this is the guy who decided the K-1 II was the second worst product of the year!

Last edited by clackers; 01-03-2019 at 05:28 AM.
01-03-2019, 06:09 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
How do we get you a job with a YouTube channel?
These are jobs, including moderator on PF, that did not exist. It's new.
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