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03-27-2020, 01:02 AM - 4 Likes   #61
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My dad was pretty expert and taught me the basics, then a few of us got together at school and formed a photography club, the science teachers let us have space in a cupboard for a darkroom and we all subbed in some money to get some basic gear. One of our teachers gave up his spare time to run an after school club for us and taught us the basics of developing, lens designs, stuff like perspectives, various guidelines about composition etc. I cant recall it in specifics now but its part of my programming I suppose.

Some years later I hit a dry spot and started taking duff rolls and my father, no mean photographer himself suggested get an outsider to take a view. Had a hoary old press photog give me some coaching and what he taught me was god stuff......he was a bit like a photog version of Mr Miyagi from the Karate Kid and very sharp. Learnt a lot from him.

Personally I tend to stay out of clubs, in my time I have been a member of quite a few for fencing, shooting, astronomy, photography, judo, literature and they have all been riddled with political bun fights, male posturing, back biting etc, sexism etc .......oddly the club with the least male posturing and sexism were the two gun clubs but that may have been because I was wearing a Browning HiPower on my hip and practiced combat shotgun a lot . ......so for clubs I give them a miss.

03-27-2020, 02:43 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Astro-Baby Quote
Some years later I hit a dry spot and started taking duff rolls and my father, no mean photographer himself suggested get an outsider to take a view. Had a hoary old press photog give me some coaching and what he taught me was god stuff......he was a bit like a photog version of Mr Miyagi from the Karate Kid and very sharp. Learnt a lot from him.

I had a similar experience in my early twenties with an old retired guy who had spent his career working in the darkroom at one of the big London papers. Being told what worked and what didn't by a guy who knew so exactly what he was talking about was a huge privilege, and it was him who taught me the mantra: "35mm lens, f/8, and wait." I definitely got better, but I also gradually realised that I was never going to be in the same league as any of the photographers whose work he had spent his career printing, and in the end I realised that professional photography wasn't for me.
03-27-2020, 03:02 AM - 1 Like   #63
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Never had any kind of formal photography training - most of the little I have learned I picked up from UK photo magazines in the sixties and seventies, reading books and experimenting when film was cheap and plentiful. Had my own darkroom in several dwellings. Did join a camera club at one point but was disillusioned when a judge picked up one of my home-processed colour prints on a contest evening, took one look and said 'I don't like cat photographs'. Nowadays I take photos purely to please myself, and record events or places that interest me.
03-27-2020, 06:49 AM - 3 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Astro-Baby Quote
...
...oddly the club with the least male posturing and sexism were the two gun clubs but that may have been because I was wearing a Browning HiPower on my hip and practiced combat shotgun a lot . ......so for clubs I give them a miss.
Thomas Jefferson is famously reported to have said, "An armed society is a polite society." One of my favorite points to hit in my Virginia Firearms Law Lecture, because people generally misunderstand the quotation. An armed society is NOT polite on account of fear of offending someone who carries a gun; it's a polite society because those who carry guns understand the power of life and death and take steps to be polite so that they never get into a confrontation that involves the use of that power, if they can avoid it. People who carry guns understand the need to respect others as persons, and tend to be much more socially responsible than the general public as a result.

So I'm guessing that no one at the range was the least bit intimidated by your Browning HiPower, since they likely considered open-carry to be a normal thing - belt, gun, shoes, hat, normal stuff to be wearing. I think they were probably just being respectful of you as a fellow-person in the world.

03-27-2020, 09:16 AM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Thomas Jefferson is famously reported to have said, "An armed society is a polite society." One of my favorite points to hit in my Virginia Firearms Law Lecture, because people generally misunderstand the quotation. An armed society is NOT polite on account of fear of offending someone who carries a gun; it's a polite society because those who carry guns understand the power of life and death and take steps to be polite so that they never get into a confrontation that involves the use of that power, if they can avoid it. People who carry guns understand the need to respect others as persons, and tend to be much more socially responsible than the general public as a result.

So I'm guessing that no one at the range was the least bit intimidated by your Browning HiPower, since they likely considered open-carry to be a normal thing - belt, gun, shoes, hat, normal stuff to be wearing. I think they were probably just being respectful of you as a fellow-person in the world.


I have to say (politely) that I find such a conception of politeness chilling; but I won't say any more than that, because we don't do politics here and sadly I doubt it's a discussion we could have without it getting political.
03-27-2020, 01:38 PM - 2 Likes   #66
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It strikes me that all politeness, in all societies, in all times and places, is borne out of the desire to avoid giving offense to others in order to stay out of confrontations, and has its roots in respect for others.
03-27-2020, 01:43 PM - 3 Likes   #67
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That's a very negative outlook, not borne out by anything. There could be politeness out of fear, but there could also be politeness because decent people actually feel better when they treat others right. The same is said about altruism. Altruistic people are happier than selfish people.

This is way to close to politics, let's stop before the thread gets locked. Especially since it has absolutely nothing to do with the title of the thread.
03-27-2020, 02:48 PM   #68
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Purely as a factual correction, and in no way as an invitation to a political discussion that we shouldn't be having here:

I was interested to understand the context of the quotation attributed to Thomas Jefferson by dlh above, and it turns out that Jefferson never said it. It's a quotation from a science fiction writer called Robert A Heinlein.

I don't intend to say anything beyond that because it's not what we're here for in this forum, but in this one case I feel that it's a factual correction that needs to made. Moderators, please feel free to delete this comment if you consider it too far outside the forum's remit.

03-27-2020, 05:51 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by dieselpunk Quote
Any thoughts on where the point is when formal learning ceases to be valuable and it's just a matter of experience?
QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Thomas Jefferson is famously reported to have said, "An armed society is a polite society." An armed society is NOT polite on account of fear of offending someone who carries a gun; it's a polite society because those who carry guns understand the power of life and death and take steps to be polite so that they never get into a confrontation that involves the use of that power, if they can avoid it. People who carry guns understand the need to respect others as persons, and tend to be much more socially responsible than the general public as a result.
.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote

I was interested to understand the context of the quotation attributed to Thomas Jefferson by dlh above, and it turns out that Jefferson never said it. It's a quotation from a science fiction writer called Robert A Heinlein.
Formal and informal learning ceases to be valuable when the student needs to start practicing the theory and learning from mistakes and experience. As a lifelong learner, I have found three teachers in my life: a) the authority, b) fellow students, c) the material itself.

In terms of the latest thread twist, one can substitute guns with cameras...but I would say people who carry cameras SHOULD understand the need to respect others as persons. But people are human and that means some will and some won't....just like respect in a formal classroom.
03-27-2020, 06:33 PM - 1 Like   #70
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Other than the high school photo class that gave me an appreciation of the fundamentals required to create an image, I have had no further formal education in photography. Fortunately, I had a library card, access to art galleries and musuems, and a the benefit of living and working for several years in a town full of artists of all sorts. I learned a lot from talking with them, and from their critiques and encouragement. More recently, I have had the great fortune of competing in an annual photo contest, judged by a professional photographer with decades of experience. His critiques of the winning entries are worth a lot of money if offered as workshops, I have taken his advice to heart and improved every year.

I do need to take some type of courses in post processing, I realize what can be done, and done well, with just minor tweaks, and as much as I try for perfection SOOC, I realize that under certian conditions, I must rely on texhnolgy to realize the image I saw with my minds eye when I opened the shutter. I also value alot of the online tutorials available today, I must apply some of those texhniques to my own ideas.
03-28-2020, 01:44 AM - 1 Like   #71
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Whoa guys, who knew an off hand remark from me was going to simmer and take the thread off stream. I apologise for that none the less. It was a general observation on clubs.

On the getting of wisdom Confucious said

By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

For myself I always learn first by instruction from others which can be books, videos, one on one, class etc.
Then I put it into practice and start doing it, generally trying to get good results and improve the skills and often by trying to copy great work done by others. As a photog that was hard for me as most of the stuff I really admire is gritty reportage shot in war zones and trouble spots but I try to get stuff from street photography. Finally I freebase it all and find I can break rules, I always think of rules as guidelines anyway.

Occasionally a bit of genius shines through in my work but mostly I am honest enough to say its workmanlike at best. As a pro he presswork was mostly dull, court appearances and how little sammys hamster had a lucky escape, product work was routine stuff and its had to show much genius taking pictures of electrical fittings, shoes, and office equipment.
03-28-2020, 02:32 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Astro-Baby Quote
Whoa guys, who knew an off hand remark from me was going to simmer and take the thread off stream. I apologise for that none the less. It was a general observation on clubs.

On the getting of wisdom Confucious said
Yes, did kind of run off the "Course" on a bit of a hijack
03-28-2020, 07:46 AM - 1 Like   #73
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Any sentence with "gun" in it is likely to go that route. Guns, politics and religion should never be mentioned in polite society. It doesn't matter what you say, some will find it offensive. Don't even start the "I don't care if I offend people." That's wouldn't be polite.
06-26-2020, 09:48 PM   #74
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I never took one, but I taught a Nature college class. The students actually were doing some pretty decent photography by the endof the course.
06-26-2020, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #75
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@Astro-Baby I realize this is an old thread - but this post from 2016 is relevant.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here's an article from DIY Photography that includes several different links to access the multiple hours of video content, plus several apps for technical calculations.

EDIT: This appears to be a highly technical course, not just see the light, compose and expose.
The Assignments at the bottom of the left frame amount to a traditional photography course. The lectures are a fascinating education on digital camera technology.

Link to content

The instructor Mark Levoy

I am a Professor Emeritus of Computer Science at Stanford, and Principal Engineer at Google, where I lead a team in Google Research that works on computational photography. Here is my Stanford home page, which includes a list of publications. On my home page is a summary of some of the projects I work on at Google.
If you're looking for my SynthCam app for iOS, here is a link. The app is free and should still work on all iPhones, but be aware that it is no longer maintained.

Last edited by monochrome; 06-26-2020 at 10:47 PM.
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