Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-01-2019, 08:34 PM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wilton, CT
Posts: 9
Photo Taken Date vs Making Date

I have this dilemma... there's some local art shows I want to enter with some photos I took years ago but reprocessed the raw files (adjustments, touch-ups, gradients, etc) in the last year or two.

Local show guidelines say work needs to have been made in the last 3 years.

Am I in the wrong to submit these images even if the date when they were taken are beyond 3 years or am I in the right since I made [changes to] them much more recently?

02-01-2019, 08:44 PM   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 193
Does it say photos taken? If so, I think they would be too old.
02-01-2019, 08:51 PM   #3
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East central Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 779
Just in my opinion, if the rules of the contest state the photo must be made in the last three years, to me, that means the photo must have been taken in the last three years.

See, the way I am looking at this is, if I had a roll of film that I ran through my camera 15 years ago, and I had that roll processed last week. Did I make the photos last week? No I didn't. To me, the words "made" and "taken" are interchangeable in this case and I take them to mean when was the shutter button was pushed.

Like I said, just my opinion. Others may have different opinions.

Last edited by bigdavephoto; 02-01-2019 at 08:51 PM. Reason: spelling
02-01-2019, 08:53 PM   #4
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wilton, CT
Posts: 9
Original Poster
One cryptically says, "Work must be created in the last three years." This one is strictly a photography show.


The other says, "Work must be original, completed within last three years and not exhibited at [gallery name] before." This one is a mix of photography and other arts.


There is no mention of "photos taken", ergo my consternation.

02-01-2019, 08:55 PM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
edom31's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New York City
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,002
This is a "lawyer" question - what is work? Photo taken or Photo + Post Procs? As you put it, it is ambiguous, thus could go either way.
02-01-2019, 09:05 PM - 3 Likes   #6
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,474
why not just ask the people in charge?

if you win but are then challenged as to when the image was captured by your camera will you tell the truth?

I would rather know the submission doesn't fit per those in charge who would decide if it qualifies if later questioned

but that is just me

YMMV
02-01-2019, 09:32 PM   #7
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,748
QuoteOriginally posted by RoundWharf Quote
I have this dilemma... there's some local art shows I want to enter with some photos I took years ago but reprocessed the raw files (adjustments, touch-ups, gradients, etc) in the last year or two.

Local show guidelines say work needs to have been made in the last 3 years.

Am I in the wrong to submit these images even if the date when they were taken are beyond 3 years or am I in the right since I made [changes to] them much more recently?
If it was a wet print from film negative contest and you dodged and burned a new, updated, unique print from an old negative, when was the work made*? It comes down to the definition of ‘made’. If those are the exact words I think you would be within the guidelines to submit your new work.

Why wouldn’t you just ask the sponsors what they’ll accept.

* Think about the evolution of Ansel Adams’ Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico prints over the years between 1941 and his death. http://anseladams.com/vintage-moonrise-hernandez-new-mexico/ Each print Is identified and valued by the year it was printed. The passage suggests Adams’ exposure of sky changed over time.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-01-2019 at 09:50 PM.
02-01-2019, 11:22 PM   #8
dms
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,817
QuoteOriginally posted by RoundWharf Quote
One cryptically says, "Work must be created in the last three years." This one is strictly a photography show.


The other says, "Work must be original, completed within last three years and not exhibited at [gallery name] before." This one is a mix of photography and other arts.
I don't agree about asking in both cases. The sponsor is also interpreting their own rules, and that may depend on who in the organization you ask. I would look at the rule and reasonably decide what it means: If I were thinking of submitting I would submit in the latter case, as it was completed within last 3 years. But in the former case, I would ask for the opinion in writing, as w/o it I would take it to mean the date the picture was taken (created as opposed to pp which is more equivalent to "refined").

02-02-2019, 05:23 AM   #9
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,474
QuoteOriginally posted by dms Quote
. . . The sponsor is also interpreting their own rules, and that may depend on who in the organization you ask. . . . I would ask for the opinion in writing. . . .
never hurts to get a " ruling " in writing and to find out exactly who is issuing it.

I think this thread show that " reasonable minds " can differ about what the rules of a competition mean

and that it isn't good when rules are subject to possible misunderstanding.

Last edited by aslyfox; 02-02-2019 at 06:10 AM.
02-02-2019, 09:09 AM - 1 Like   #10
Pentaxian
rogerstg's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rhode Island
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
QuoteOriginally posted by bigdavephoto Quote
Just in my opinion, if the rules of the contest state the photo must be made in the last three years, to me, that means the photo must have been taken in the last three years.
I agree. "Taken" and "made" are synonymous and which word is used depends on the user. Most people in the US say "taken," whereas people involved in the arts use "made."
I think that if we look to the purpose of the three year rule, it is to encourage participation and competition by excluding the use of a fabulous winning photograph year after year after year. Using the processing date of the raw file as the "made" date seems contrary to the purpose of the rule.
02-03-2019, 09:36 AM - 1 Like   #11
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,945
QuoteOriginally posted by RoundWharf Quote
I have this dilemma... there's some local art shows I want to enter with some photos I took years ago but reprocessed the raw files (adjustments, touch-ups, gradients, etc) in the last year or two.

Local show guidelines say work needs to have been made in the last 3 years.

Am I in the wrong to submit these images even if the date when they were taken are beyond 3 years or am I in the right since I made [changes to] them much more recently?
I would say that the intent of the rule is that the image capture is within the last three years.
You can lawyer up and pretend that the letter or the rule is ambiguous, but the intent seems pretty plain.
02-10-2019, 04:43 PM - 1 Like   #12
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wilton, CT
Posts: 9
Original Poster
Hi all, thanks for the great discussion. Sorry for late reply -- computer I was using last six years suddenly died on me this past week.

I did end up asking the people in charge -- although one blew me off, the other organizer's response was quite interesting:
QuoteQuote:
This rule would apply if your work has been sitting on a shelf, on a wall, or on display for more than three years as a finished piece of artwork.

We would like the art to be fresh. If you have an old photograph and just recently updated, manipulated, collaged, etc. then we would welcome it to be juried into our show.
02-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #13
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,474
QuoteOriginally posted by RoundWharf Quote
Hi all, thanks for the great discussion. Sorry for late reply -- computer I was using last six years suddenly died on me this past week.

I did end up asking the people in charge -- although one blew me off, the other organizer's response was quite interesting:

Quote:
This rule would apply if your work has been sitting on a shelf, on a wall, or on display for more than three years as a finished piece of artwork.

We would like the art to be fresh. If you have an old photograph and just recently updated, manipulated, collaged, etc. then we would welcome it to be juried into our show.
sounds like it's ok to take an image captured years ago and " improve " it now and submit the " improvement " for the program

good luck with your efforts
02-11-2019, 12:32 PM   #14
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Nov 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 963
My criteria would be based on whether I considered it a new work myself.

If all I did was select the image, brighten it a touch, and hit print, I havenít changed it in any creative way, so to me it would be unchanged from the date the image was captured.

If I spent some time on significant post-processing, such that the end result is noticeably and creatively different from the original, then to me itís a different work.

Thatís consistent with the Adams example and the feedback the OP got from the organizers of the contest...

-Eric
02-11-2019, 02:05 PM   #15
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,474
QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
My criteria would be based on whether I considered it a new work myself.

If all I did was select the image, brighten it a touch, and hit print, I havenít changed it in any creative way, so to me it would be unchanged from the date the image was captured.

If I spent some time on significant post-processing, such that the end result is noticeably and creatively different from the original, then to me itís a different work.

Thatís consistent with the Adams example and the feedback the OP got from the organizers of the contest...

-Eric
actually, that is a more detailed and better description of what I meant with the terms I was using:

" improve "

" Improvement "
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
creation date, date, date vs, making date, photo taken date, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Macro It's bee' n a while since I have taken a Bee Grade photo old4570 Post Your Photos! 6 11-10-2018 07:53 AM
Out of focus if taken with viewfinder, in focus if taken with live view Alexvc Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 11 12-14-2017 07:42 AM
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
Enthusiast vs Prosumer vs Semi Pro vs Pro vs APSC vs Full Frame mickyd Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 11-12-2013 07:14 PM
EXIF help (date created) vs. (date taken) dragonfly Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 09-12-2009 10:22 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:21 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top