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03-15-2019, 10:18 PM - 1 Like   #1
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NYC is dead

https://www.washingtonpost.com/photography/2019/03/15/fueled-by-sense-loss-n...-old-new-york/

03-16-2019, 05:48 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Interesting collection - good story! Well done images!
03-16-2019, 08:14 AM - 5 Likes   #3
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These kinds of sentiments amuse me because that "old New York" that the author longs for was once the "new New York" that people of some previous generation abhorred. And that previous generation looked back fondly at a different "old New York" that was also at one time the new New York.

With some exceptions -- whose ruins are now tourist attractions -- cities never die. Instead, they are reborn as the winds of the future stir the ashes of the past.
03-16-2019, 08:38 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
With some exceptions -- whose ruins are now tourist attractions -- cities never die. Instead, they are reborn as the winds of the future stir the ashes of the past.
I guess you've never seen Detroit. Once "Motor Capital of the World", then home to "Motown" music, today the city has a fraction of its former population and takes up too much room. Our younger daughter loves the Ford Museum in suburban Dearborn, and we go through Detroit on our annual migration to Pt. Pelee NP, Canada {inspired by bird migration}, so I see too much of the grandeur that isn't there anymore. In the other direction we have Gary, born and lingered with U.S. Steel. Gary Union Station still stands only because it is made of poured concrete; the land its is built on has little value, so nobody is going to go to the expense of demolishing it, and it won't come down on its own.

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03-16-2019, 09:45 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I guess you've never seen Detroit. Once "Motor Capital of the World", then home to "Motown" music, today the city has a fraction of its former population and takes up too much room. Our younger daughter loves the Ford Museum in suburban Dearborn, and we go through Detroit on our annual migration to Pt. Pelee NP, Canada {inspired by bird migration}, so I see too much of the grandeur that isn't there anymore. In the other direction we have Gary, born and lingered with U.S. Steel. Gary Union Station still stands only because it is made of poured concrete; the land its is built on has little value, so nobody is going to go to the expense of demolishing it, and it won't come down on its own.
To quote Monty Python: "I'm not dead yet!"

Detroit still has 670,000 people even if they are rambling around in a space built for three times that number. What's interesting is that all that "land of little value" in the midst of a decaying city is synonymous with affordable properties ripe for redevelopment by young people who tend to have little money but lots of energy and vision. Decay is opportunity!

Detroit can have a future if it wants it. Those grand old buildings can be remodeled to house start-ups, artists, and young people who don't mind buildings with "character" as long as the rent is cheap.
03-16-2019, 09:54 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Pictures with 75% of it's area having R=G=B=0. I dunno. It's a cliché. Apparently, you can't do "street photography" without crushing your blacks beyond recognition. Yawn.

Last edited by tuco; 03-16-2019 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spelling
03-16-2019, 10:45 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
These kinds of sentiments amuse me because that "old New York" that the author longs for was once the "new New York" that people of some previous generation abhorred. And that previous generation looked back fondly at a different "old New York" that was also at one time the new New York.

With some exceptions -- whose ruins are now tourist attractions -- cities never die. Instead, they are reborn as the winds of the future stir the ashes of the past.
New York is becoming more of a culture-less place exclusive to only the uber-rich. It's not supposed to be like that....

A few weeks back I was bored and had a thought to hop on one of those tour buses that travel around the city; they wanted 75, seventy-five, SEVENTY-FIVE WHOLE DOLLARS!
The absurdity of it all is insulting...

Last edited by brightseal; 03-16-2019 at 10:57 AM.
03-16-2019, 11:11 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by brightseal Quote
New York is becoming more of a culture-less place exclusive to only the uber-rich. It's not supposed to be like that....
I think every large city here has very high cost of living. The more a city grows, the higher the property value gets and the more property taxes the city collects. The city wants high property taxes. They love it; otherwise, they wouldn't tax you based on an artificial value of the land.

03-16-2019, 11:11 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by brightseal Quote
New York is becoming more of a culture-less place exclusive to only the uber-rich. It's not supposed to be like that....
I like the article you linked, but I think there has been something unreal about the island of Manhattan for a very long time. My experience of NYC is limited to four trips between 1987 and 1997, but even then I got the impression that people were living in a glass jar (from the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street to the drug dealers a block off Broadway to the projects in the Bronx), with the rest of us trying to peer inside. Incredibly fascinating place, though.
03-16-2019, 11:12 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
To quote Monty Python: "I'm not dead yet!"

Detroit still has 670,000 people even if they are rambling around in a space built for three times that number. What's interesting is that all that "land of little value" in the midst of a decaying city is synonymous with affordable properties ripe for redevelopment by young people who tend to have little money but lots of energy and vision. Decay is opportunity!

Detroit can have a future if it wants it. Those grand old buildings can be remodeled to house start-ups, artists, and young people who don't mind buildings with "character" as long as the rent is cheap.
The problem is, the jobs have mostly left. Those energetic young people live 2000 miles away in Calif or 700 miles away in NYC.
Unfortunately, Amazon wasn't interested in building their second HQ in the Midwest.
03-16-2019, 05:25 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The problem is, the jobs have mostly left. Those energetic young people live 2000 miles away in Calif or 700 miles away in NYC.
Unfortunately, Amazon wasn't interested in building their second HQ in the Midwest.
That's true if one wants a traditional office job but there are plenty of digital-native jobs where the worker can live anywhere with internet access and a decent airport (Detroit's airport is very large and well connected to the world).

The cost-of-living and cost-of-office space is insane in the Bay Area and NYC. Salary, investor money, credit card debt, and sweat equity go a lot farther in a place like Detroit.

Finally, I'd bet that Detroit has a special attraction for the subset of energetic young people attracted to either cars or music. A young gear-head or Blues musician with an idea for making the next big thing might well find Detroit a more natural home. And if that energetic young person has a social conscience, they might like the idea fo helping put Detroit back on its feet.

Time will tell!
03-16-2019, 06:16 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
To quote Monty Python: "I'm not dead yet!"

Detroit still has 670,000 people even if they are rambling around in a space built for three times that number. What's interesting is that all that "land of little value" in the midst of a decaying city is synonymous with affordable properties ripe for redevelopment by young people who tend to have little money but lots of energy and vision. Decay is opportunity!

Detroit can have a future if it wants it. Those grand old buildings can be remodeled to house start-ups, artists, and young people who don't mind buildings with "character" as long as the rent is cheap.
Dream on my friend.
03-17-2019, 09:51 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
That's true if one wants a traditional office job but there are plenty of digital-native jobs where the worker can live anywhere with internet access and a decent airport (Detroit's airport is very large and well connected to the world).

The cost-of-living and cost-of-office space is insane in the Bay Area and NYC. Salary, investor money, credit card debt, and sweat equity go a lot farther in a place like Detroit.

Finally, I'd bet that Detroit has a special attraction for the subset of energetic young people attracted to either cars or music. A young gear-head or Blues musician with an idea for making the next big thing might well find Detroit a more natural home. And if that energetic young person has a social conscience, they might like the idea fo helping put Detroit back on its feet.

Time will tell!
Have you ever been in Detroit. I've never been in a part of the city that looks clean or feels safe. Yes, the city could put more sanitation workers and police on the streets - but that would require $$$, and they have financial issues already; I won't get into the politics of indebtedness, but it's not obvious that Michigan has the resources to help {they also have Flint and several other poor cities}, nor has the federal government shown the ability to pour that much money into the problem - there is a reason people sometimes use the term "rust belt". Oh, and many young people want surf or mountains, and all we have is amber waves of grain.

For fifty years, the area of my city just south of downtown looked a lot like Detroit - and for the same reason .... buildings abandoned by Studebaker stretched several blocks east-west and a mile south from downtown. Eventually, "Mayor Pete" came up with money from somewhere (*), tore down most of the old Studebaker buildings and encouraged people like courts and the transit company, anyone who was constructing new stuff, to build there.

(*) South Bend always had a healthy side also. Bendix {which was eventually split by Honeywell and Bosch} makes brakes on the west side of town; Notre Dame pulls large amounts of outside money into the north side of town ... in fact 4 institutions of higher learning is good for a town of 100K.
03-17-2019, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Have you ever been in Detroit. I've never been in a part of the city that looks clean or feels safe. Yes, the city could put more sanitation workers and police on the streets - but that would require $$$, and they have financial issues already; I won't get into the politics of indebtedness, but it's not obvious that Michigan has the resources to help {they also have Flint and several other poor cities}, nor has the federal government shown the ability to pour that much money into the problem - there is a reason people sometimes use the term "rust belt". Oh, and many young people want surf or mountains, and all we have is amber waves of grain.

For fifty years, the area of my city just south of downtown looked a lot like Detroit - and for the same reason .... buildings abandoned by Studebaker stretched several blocks east-west and a mile south from downtown. Eventually, "Mayor Pete" came up with money from somewhere (*), tore down most of the old Studebaker buildings and encouraged people like courts and the transit company, anyone who was constructing new stuff, to build there.

(*) South Bend always had a healthy side also. Bendix {which was eventually split by Honeywell and Bosch} makes brakes on the west side of town; Notre Dame pulls large amounts of outside money into the north side of town ... in fact 4 institutions of higher learning is good for a town of 100K.
I've been to Detroit twice (the most recent was in 2012 for several days visiting GM). I saw both good parts and bad parts.

And I've also been to places like Caracas Venezuela, cities in the Philippines, and various other places in South America and Asia. Many of those cities had parts that were far worse than the worst parts of Detroit and yet the worst parts of those cities were still functioning. Too often, people assume that if something isn't safe, pretty and rich that it must be broken and irrecoverable.

As you say, South Bend has a healthy side, also and I suspect that Detroit does too. Sure, many want surf and mountains but there's always a subset of people that love a challenge and a chance to make some part of the world a better place.
03-17-2019, 10:56 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Here's my two cents on the original post...

Having grown up in the heart of Chinatown and being a NYC area resident for 55 years, I will say that even though the collection is well put together, it does not truly capture the character that the Chinatown area is losing due to the gentrification and development that has taken place since 2001 when the former Mayor Bloomberg encouraged development throughout the city.

IMO. images of all the stores lining the sidewalks with their daily fresh vegetables, fresh fish and dry goods and images of basement level restaurants and businesses all accessible from street level cellar doors converted into steps for access into windowless restaurants and barbershops in addition to the informal Tai Chi groups of older residents working through their exercises in the early mornings in the neighborhood park would be more indicative of the character the neighborhood is in danger of losing.

In essence rents have risen and with it the area is now filled with more businesses catering to tourist and fewer to the locals. There are even apartments in the neighborhood that are rented out to millennials who are not Asian nor immigrants because the landlords are getting "key money" to rent a rent controlled apartment out to one person and not another. I knew someone that lived in a 2 room apartment in 1988. He & his brothers paid $30K in "key money" for the right to rent the apartment. I hate to think how corrupt the process is now that 30 years have past.

FTR, the pictures of the stores with multiple signs are actually single storefronts that have been converted into mini-mall setups with multiple vendors behind each storefront. The rents have gone up so much & that is how the vendors survive. This started happening in the neighborhood in the late 1990's. The neighborhood use to have five theaters catering to Asian movies for the locals. These died a quick death after VCR players became affordable. All the movie theaters either became min-malls or office building conversions. The areas in deep shadow are mostly areas under the Manhattan bridge which connects Manhattan & Brooklyn. These areas when I was growing up were not considered part of Chinatown but have become designated as part of Chinatown as the stores, businesses and residents have expanded.

Interesting fact for those that do not know, the movie Gangs of New York starring Leonardo DiCaprio is supposed to be about the area called the "Five Points" of which the NYC Chinatown is in the heart of.

---------- Post added 03-17-19 at 02:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
I've been to Detroit twice (the most recent was in 2012 for several days visiting GM). I saw both good parts and bad parts.

And I've also been to places like Caracas Venezuela, cities in the Philippines, and various other places in South America and Asia. Many of those cities had parts that were far worse than the worst parts of Detroit and yet the worst parts of those cities were still functioning. Too often, people assume that if something isn't safe, pretty and rich that it must be broken and irrecoverable.

As you say, South Bend has a healthy side, also and I suspect that Detroit does too. Sure, many want surf and mountains but there's always a subset of people that love a challenge and a chance to make some part of the world a better place.

Visiting an area and making a choice to have your children grow up in it are two different things. Just look at this whole college admissions scandal going on.... you can't tell me that most parent would subject their children to the "challenge" of getting ahead in the world because they as parents chose to try & make a part of the world a better place. I know I wouldn't.
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