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07-09-2019, 12:04 AM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I don’t doubt that it works better. The 150-450 is huge though, in comparison to the 300. It seems like little to ask that the 300 be updated a bit. It was unique among other offerings. Nikon only recently offered something similar—at twice the price. It is a great opportunity to keep this advantage, but I can’t say what the economics are for Ricoh.
There is always better tech out there, it's only a matter of time. So, in the end, it matter what money we want to spend switching brands to always have the best from here and there, or if we consider that what we have does the job well enough at not cost. When I use my Pentax gear, sometimes I miss shots (most of the time it's because my technique is wrong, the situation wasn't there for a good image etc), but I never considered that missed shots were worth spending 10 grands to switch system. Digital isn't like with film rolls, with digital you delete and start over, for free, and photographic opportunities aren't missing if it's not today it'll be tomorrow, don't get upset today because the light was poor it was raining and all your shoots are dull, because tomorrow the light may come and you'll get much better images with the exact same camera, there are even too many images online, databases are saturated. A lot of promotion is done to switch brands because it means money for the camera industry, where I bought the K1 they always try to make customer switch to another brand because then once they managed to sell a new camera they sell a bunch of lenses, that's good money for them. I wished customers don't get fooled that easily by the mermaids whispering there is something better at the other brand. If I had listen to the local camera shop, I'd have sold Pentax, bought Canon, sold Canon, bought Nikon, sold Nikon, bought Sony, sold Sony bought Panasonic etc..


Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-09-2019 at 12:11 AM.
07-09-2019, 12:53 AM   #227
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I buy a camera to use it and probably made a mistake upgrading from my kr to the k1, the k1 is very special, but large and the lenses that generally go with it. Fuji xt30 is very small with virtually the same spec as the xt3. Probably would not have changed ship if had bought the k70 or kp. I carry it around a lot more and use it. The autofocus is fast, and a bonus but my change was mainly driven by increased portability. I am irritated that pentax appear to have given up on mirrorless cameras. I listed the fuji lenses by request and mentioned briefly my thoughts on them. The 80mm macro is regarded as a superb lense, fuji are developing a substantial range of lenses, another reason to buy into their system.I started with Pentax film cameras and will keep those and am currently looking at obtaining an old digital pentax body but no rush.
07-09-2019, 01:50 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by John777 Quote
I am irritated that pentax appear to have given up on mirrorless cameras.
Mirrorless is like when kids see a candy store, then wanna have it and they will make noise and bother their parent until they get a candy. If Sony didn't develop the wants for mirrorless, everyone of us would still want a DSLR. Yesterday I was out seeking for good views and taking pictures, it started raining, then the cattle with scenery weren't fitting together. I took 20 shots, none of them good, the light was poor. I saw some opportunities for birding but I have the wrong lens on the camera. I came back home thinking "what if I had a mirrorless camera?" The answer was easy, would have been exactly the same: light was poor, subject wasn't there, I had the wrong lens, mirrorless wouldn't make any difference.

---------- Post added 09-07-19 at 11:03 ----------

The need for mirrorless has increased since Nikon, Canon and Panasonic joined the FF pool. When Sony and Fuji were the only not offering DSLR, people needed DSLR. That alone is pure evidence that photographers are manipulated by marketing PR like puppets hanging on wires. Personally I don't like the idea of being manipulated like a puppet, so I stick with what works to take high quality images.
07-09-2019, 02:18 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The need for mirrorless has increased since Nikon, Canon and Panasonic joined the FF pool.
That's not a bad thing, to give options to people.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When Sony and Fuji were the only not offering DSLR, people needed DSLR. That alone is pure evidence that photographers are manipulated by marketing PR like puppets hanging on wires. Personally I don't like the idea of being manipulated like a puppet, so I stick with what works to take high quality images.
As long as I have the option to shoot with lots of mirrorless cameras and some of them are more fun to use than DSLRs, I'm not sure that I'm manipulated by marketing departments. Do I need a mirrorless? For the moment my DSLR is more than enough. If my DSLR will be stolen tomorow or when the time to upgrade will come, I don't know if I will buy a DSLR or a mirrorless. I tend to choose mirrorless even if I'm not yet comfortable with EVF. But for me personally, some mirrorless cameras are more fun to use than DSLRs.

07-09-2019, 02:24 AM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
That's not a bad thing, to give options to people.
Apparently mirrorless isn't an option, for some people it's a must have.
07-09-2019, 02:30 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by John777 Quote
I buy a camera to use it and probably made a mistake upgrading from my kr to the k1, the k1 is very special, but large and the lenses that generally go with it. Fuji xt30 is very small with virtually the same spec as the xt3. Probably would not have changed ship if had bought the k70 or kp. I carry it around a lot more and use it. The autofocus is fast, and a bonus but my change was mainly driven by increased portability. I am irritated that pentax appear to have given up on mirrorless cameras. I listed the fuji lenses by request and mentioned briefly my thoughts on them. The 80mm macro is regarded as a superb lense, fuji are developing a substantial range of lenses, another reason to buy into their system.I started with Pentax film cameras and will keep those and am currently looking at obtaining an old digital pentax body but no rush.
The issue for Pentax with regard to mirrorless tech is that it would take a large investment to get it started. The mirrorless market is smaller than the SLR market but currently has more players fighting for that share as well -- Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, and now Nikon and Canon. Pentax isn't a tech heavy company and the mirrorless cameras are tech monsters. At the same time, making SLRs is something they are good at. Finally, I can't imagine how long it would take to fill out a lens line up for a new MILC mount (it would make little sense to keep the K mount if launching a mirrorless camera).

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Pentax plays around with some type of hybrid viewfinder that attempts to combine the best of both worlds, but I really think that them jumping into the mirrorless market right now might sink them as a company. It certainly would be unlikely to boost sales a whole lot.
07-09-2019, 02:30 AM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do I need a mirrorless? For the moment my DSLR is more than enough.
I'm like Canon users who bought a 5DIV , I don't feel there is enough difference between the latest DSLR models and the new mirrorless models to justify spending the money on a new system. For me, mirrorless isn't a significant change such as film to digital , or going from apsc to full frame or medium format, or upgrading a camera of 2006 by a camera of 2016. For example, the difference between a 5DIV and a EOS R isn't big at all, it's even the same sensor and video capability, same for Nikon between D850 and Z7 or D610 and Z6. For Pentax, there isn't much difference between a K1 and a Z7 for still images. Now, if in 2019 or 2020 Canon release a 80Mpixel mirrorless camera with full frame 4K or even 8K, then it'll all be different because the specs will be a step above the current state of the art in imaging.

In short, for me, the mirrorless functionality alone isn't enough to justify spending multiple thousand euros into a new system, there must be other improvements that are big enough to justify spending that much money on a new camera system.
07-09-2019, 02:32 AM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Apparently mirrorless isn't an option, for some people it's a must have.
Like it is every new phone released, or every new TV released... For some, cameras and lenses are gadgets, others want to have the latest tech... In the end, we have more option to choose from.

---------- Post added 07-09-19 at 09:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'm like Canon users who bought a 5DIV , I don't feel there is enough difference between the latest DSLR models and the new mirrorless models to justify spending the money on a new system. For me, mirrorless isn't a significant change such as film to digital , or going from apsc to full frame or medium format, or upgrading a camera of 2006 by a camera of 2016. For example, the difference between a 5DIV and a EOS R isn't big at all, it's even the same sensor and video capability, same for Nikon between D850 and Z7 or D610 and Z6. For Pentax, there isn't much difference between a K1 and a Z7 for still images. Now, if in 2019 or 2020 Canon release a 80Mpixel mirrorless camera with full frame 4K or even 8K, then it'll all be different because the specs will be a step above the current state of the art in imaging.

In short, for me, the mirrorless functionality alone isn't enough to justify spending multiple thousand euros into a new system, there must be other improvements that are big enough to justify spending that much money on a new camera system.
Depends...
I don't have to invest thousand of euros in a new system as long as all my lenses work very well on EOS R. And I have 2 lenses that need replacement. At some point even the lenses need replacement so the transition for me will not be very expensive. What I also see here, in Romania, is people buying the body new and the lenses second hand. This way they don't spend too much money on the transition. Second hand lenses have similar prices between manufacturers, except Pentax which is cheaper and is also hard to find Pentax second hand due to small market. And there are others who sell their original DSLR lenses and go for Sigma/Tamron lenses.

There isn't a difference in terms of image quality between EOS R and 5D Mark IV, but I'm having more fun shooting with EOS R right now than shooting with 5D Mark IV. Not enough fun to trade my 5D to EOS R, but given the upcoming lenses for RF system... Let's say that I became more interested in mirrorless.

---------- Post added 07-09-19 at 09:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
but I really think that them jumping into the mirrorless market right now might sink them as a company. It certainly would be unlikely to boost sales a whole lot.
Agree. Even in 10-15 years I think that it will be a market for DSLRs given the millions of lenses available so Pentax doesn't have to risk now to enter in the mirrorless market. If they took the decision to enter into the mirrorless market, that time should have been arround the launch of K1. Now, with all the manufacturers fighting in the mirrorless arena...


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 07-09-2019 at 02:51 AM.
07-09-2019, 04:19 AM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There isn't a difference in terms of image quality between EOS R and 5D Mark IV, but I'm having more fun shooting with EOS R right now than shooting with 5D Mark IV.
For me, the day Canon come up with a mirrorless version of the 5DSr , with a bigger battery, and better frame rate, I'll be more interested again. You get my point.
07-09-2019, 04:37 AM - 2 Likes   #235
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Pentax have developed a mirror less camera a few years ago just did not continue and a smaller sized digital system. I still own the small film slr system, which i enjoyed using. I thought once Ricoh took over we would see more developments in different camera bodies.
I did not move over to mirrorless camera, but to a very compact light camera, mirroless just helps make it more compact.
07-09-2019, 05:43 AM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by John777 Quote
my change was mainly driven by increased portability
@John777, I think your X-T30 affords a lighter system than the K-1, so it's a reasonable choice. I believe that some of Fuji's lenses are relatively heavy, but if you're staying in the sub-100mm range, you won't be encumbered.

QuoteOriginally posted by John777 Quote
I listed the fuji lenses by request and mentioned briefly my thoughts on them.
Thanks for your reply to my earlier question on the lenses. That 80mm macro seems to be an excellent lens.

I think it would be fair to say that Pentax also has a number of excellent lenses, and the Pentax APS-C lens line covers a wide range. The KP combined with several DA Limiteds would make for a compact kit, if one stays with the APS-C format.

Enjoy your X-T30!

- Craig
07-09-2019, 08:25 AM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I don’t doubt that it works better. The 150-450 is huge though, in comparison to the 300. It seems like little to ask that the 300 be updated a bit. It was unique among other offerings. Nikon only recently offered something similar—at twice the price. It is a great opportunity to keep this advantage, but I can’t say what the economics are for Ricoh.

---------- Post added 07-08-19 at 04:44 PM ----------



Let’s never have a thread where we ask for anything. The only thing that is leaking is venom from someone I once respected.
Back at you.
The negativity doesn't help me take better pictures. Sorry.

You can praise other camera makers without bashing Pentax. If you can't do that, you belong somewhere else. Show us your images made with your best other than Pentax AF gear. and explain what works well for you. We'll be good. But you if have to bash Pentax to do it, your input is not welcome. The fact that you can't get something done doesn't mean no one can.

I fail to understand why every guy using non-Pentax gear thinks they are some kind of god's gift to photography. I don't understand why if people are having problems with something they don't just ask. Ultimately most of us buy a camera for that they do. Unfortunately we have large number of posters who try and influence people by ragging on what Pentax doesn't do. Even when many of us are doing what they say they can't do. Or in my case, I see many images I might have trouble with, with my Pentax gear, but, I know I'll get something, and I'm not going to pay for a niche camera for something I might need twice in the rest of my life.

This thread is an embarrassment to many on the forum, but some folks just won't let it die. They just keep it up there, rubbing it in everybody's face, on the recent posts lists near the top page. Meanwhile real pictures taken by real people doing great work are quickly assigned to oblivion.

Honestly mods, it's run it's course, please lock it.
At least find a way to make it only visible to thread subscribers. If they want to carry on I have no issue. But I felt ill the first time I saw the title and myself and many others are patiently waiting for it to die the death it deserves.

My opinion, if you keep giving air time to those who can't get it done, you're going to lose the ones who can. Folks can only waste so much time correcting the nonsense.

Last edited by normhead; 07-09-2019 at 12:15 PM.
07-09-2019, 07:22 PM   #238
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I agree. Nothing useful can be gained from continuing this thread.

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