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04-06-2019, 03:20 AM - 3 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Incidentally, I'm not 100% tied to Pentax.
I shoot Leica's with no AF at all. What happened to photography as an art? When I hear people complain about AF, I laugh...Using my Grandfather's old Rolleiflex, I learned how to estimate focal points at 8 years old and still believe that a good photographer can "stop time" by adjusting aperture, shutter speed and delicately focusing.
Below is a recent pic I took at 50 mph on a moving train while holding a manual focus Leica M8.2 -- exif data for the details.
Perfect no: Usable absolutely. Note the M8.2 is fully manual and 10 years old !!!
When I use my K-1, it is fast as lightning for my purposes, Hell, even my K-5ii is fast to me...many lenses allow me to fine focus (I love that Pentax option) while in AF mode. Simply, my skill set and Pentax work fine as well as with my other kits. But, unlike the OP in this thread, I don't compare kits, bodies or lenses. I learned to adapt my equipment for my anticipated use. If I picked the wrong camera as the circumstances changed, I am able to adapt--that's called photography--I'm here at the PF because I shoot Pentax as a choice, not as a compromise.

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04-06-2019, 07:58 AM - 2 Likes   #32
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The hardware lack with pentax cameras so far is processing power. That is why we dont see them implementing things like 4k video, higher bit rates, faster af, eye af, and so on. They simply do not have the processing capabilities to handle the increase in requirements with their current generation chips. When they say they "we focus on image quality" they literally mean "we spend our money on the sensors", not processors.

Sony has and will have a massive advantage in this aspect. Sony makes lots of tech that requires fast processing so they have access to stuff that pentax does not, at least not without shifting the price point significantly.

Fortunately for Pentax though, faster processing does not necessarily mean better camera.
04-06-2019, 08:34 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by amstel78 Quote
I don't know. I've tried fiddling with all the various AF settings in the body and it seems keepers with the 70-200 is hovering somewhere between 20 and 30 percent.

Could it be the lens? Possibly. It works fine for most other situations though.

Could it be the environment? Potentially. I'm sure I'd have better luck if I was perhaps further away using a larger depth of field. The last use case scenario was at my local skating rink where I was standing right next to the wall. Skaters are coming towards you from the opposite end rapidly. It's in that situation I noticed AF having the most difficulty tracking an object moving towards me at oblique angles. Combine that with a shallow DOF for background separation, and the percentage of of keepers goes down quickly.

Could it be my technique? Yes, I've considered that as well and have tried different methods, mostly with limited success. But, I have an open mind and if I'm doing something wrong, then I'll admit it, learn from the mistake and move on.
Most of my photos of our young children were taken with my Super Program camera - the last one I had before I moved to AF. I've always wanted to include context in a photo, so I tended to use a narrow aperture - then for something like skating, I focused on an area and waited for them to get to it.

QuoteOriginally posted by amstel78 Quote
IRegarding the comment about buying the right tool for the job; I wouldn't disagree. But I'm not made of money and already have a considerable investment in Pentax glass. The whole point of my thread was simply wishing out loud for Ricoh/Pentax to improve their AF software and algorithms. By doing so, I believe they'd attract more than just the diehard Pentax fan or landscape photographer. In the end, it would only serve to ensure Pentax's existence in the marketplace. Wouldn't that make all of us happy?
Pentax's main interest is 'field cameras'. Ricoh is willing to spend only so much on R&D; if AF is someone's main interest, then s/he needs to purchase a Nikon, because their extra processor does AF {but even the D500 is not nearly as good at high ISO as the lowly KP and K-70 are}
Pentax KP First Shots: Going head-to-head against the Nikon D500 at ISO 819,200!
04-06-2019, 08:41 AM   #34
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prejudice betrayed

Ok, just a personal perspective here, observations colored thereby: For as long as I can remember, there has been a sort of divide between what I privately characterize as "photographers", on the one hand, and "snap-shooters" on the other. Autofocus is a great innovation, that can help photographers with visual acuity deficiencies, but it's no more than an aid. It's also useful for long-range telephoto because "live view" makes it easier to find the subject, esp. w/magnification. In short, photographers tend to use manual everything as much as possible to control the details of their composition, including focus. Picture-taking snapshooters, on the other hand, want things to be quick and easy, aren't much interested in controlling details, they just want to be able to record a memorable scene for themselves without a lot of technical hoo-hah.

Just to be clear, I think both kinds of goals are equally respectable, and there's no "good" or "bad" with respect to either. They're just different endpoints of a continuum, and there's immense variation in between the "pure artists" and the kid with an "Instamatic".

All of that is intended as background for this conclusion: Sony tends to favor picture-snappers, and Pentax tends to favor photographers. Neither is more of a tendency but their respective markets reflect their philosophical approach to the technology they sell. Each tends to favor different compromise positions. Sony doesn't work for me, at all, and I find myself wishing my Pentax K-1 didn't have so much whiz-bang in it, because it only gets in the way of my taking (what I think are) good pictures. I got lost the other day poring over the instructions and internet trying to figure something out and found myself wishing I still had my Canon AE-1 and a box of film.

My wife takes the opposite approach. She recently bought a Canon "Powershot GX-1 Mark III" to replace an older Sony something or other. She likes the color space of the Canon better. But the newer camera is much more sophisticated, especially the autofocus capability. The only problem is that she can't remember what "aperture" means, and gets really frustrated because the silly camera won't take a picture of what she's seeing in perfect focus from front to back. I've explained depth of field and how to control it several times, but it's not the sort of information she can remember. And the autofocus will seize on some object in the frame that she's not interested in and will result in a picture in which the intended subject is fuzzy. What she really wants is something that shoots like an Instamatic but with as good a sensor and processor that she can get for a reasonable price.

So if one turns out to be more of a Sony kind of picture-taker, then by all means, go for it. I think Pentax has the least market share out of the group (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Ricoh), precisely because it is more geared to photography and less to snapshots, and the greater number of people are not photographers, but picture-takers. (Granted, Canon and Nikon have greater production facilities, and serve both markets, but Sony is a home-consumer oriented company that doesn't even make its own lenses). I'm sure there's a good market here for used Pentax equipment, by the way.

04-06-2019, 08:57 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
How did we manage before we had auto focus? Were all eyes out of focus?
Well, I had only a fixed-focus camera back then. I'm nearly blind and can't focus my own eyeballs much less a camera so without autofocus I would probably have a different avocation.
04-06-2019, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Most of my photos of our young children were taken with my Super Program camera - the last one I had before I moved to AF. I've always wanted to include context in a photo, so I tended to use a narrow aperture - then for something like skating, I focused on an area and waited for them to get to it.

Pentax's main interest is 'field cameras'. Ricoh is willing to spend only so much on R&D; if AF is someone's main interest, then s/he needs to purchase a Nikon, because their extra processor does AF {but even the D500 is not nearly as good at high ISO as the lowly KP and K-70 are}
Pentax KP First Shots: Going head-to-head against the Nikon D500 at ISO 819,200!
That's what I used to do quite a bit back in the ME Super days; pick a spot, focus, set aperture and shutter speed, and wait for the target to enter that zone. Sometimes I do that now with the K10 or K1-II and set drive to either medium or high. It usually works 95% of the time. But sometimes I just wish I could set a focus point on a moving target, use back button focus to keep AFC active and let the camera do the work. Some might call it cheating, but there are times when I just want to capture the moment with my kids rather than fight the AF system.

For landscape and architectural shots that are typically slower and more deliberate, I'm usually in manual mode where I don't care about AF. The K1-II really is a wonderful tool in that regard.
04-06-2019, 09:07 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Ok, just a personal perspective here, observations colored thereby
ETC.

dlh: Well said. I sold my Leica M (typ 240) because the menu was too long. I missed the M series so I bought an old M8.2 with only 1200 clicks on it and I love the all manual mode. In fact, I shopt manual on the K-1 as much as possible because the focus peaking is intuitive to me like the rangefinder is on the Leica. I point the RF at the area of the composition I want in clearest focus and align. Shoot. Re-Align. Shoot. Repeat as necessary...now do that on a Sony without reading the manual 3 times.

---------- Post added 04-06-19 at 09:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Buffy Quote
Well, I had only a fixed-focus camera back then. I'm nearly blind and can't focus my own eyeballs much less a camera so without autofocus I would probably have a different avocation.
You, of course get a pass....

04-06-2019, 09:32 AM   #38
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Back in the late sixties I learned photography from a couple newspaper sports photo/mentors. May they RIP! Today, with all the fantastic digital tech available, I still revert to old habits & go manual focus frequently. Glad it still works! ...at least for a while longer...
04-06-2019, 09:41 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffdrew Quote
Back in the late sixties I learned photography from a couple newspaper sports photo/mentors. May they RIP! Today, with all the fantastic digital tech available, I still revert to old habits & go manual focus frequently. Glad it still works! ...at least for a while longer...
Manual Focus always works...if you're talking about one's cognitive abilities then that's a different story.
04-06-2019, 10:54 AM   #40
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As a long standing Pentaxian, it saddens me to say that I don't see myself driving to (or clicking on) a shop and buying a brand new Pentax body at full retail price. Driving to a shop that stocks Pentax is a real challenge. There are only two "near" me and both of them are an hour's drive away. They might not even have the KP or K1 of my dreams in stock. The price of that KP or K1 is eye watering. Sales here in South Africa are not big, even for Nikon and Canon. Pentax sales are tiny, so there are no incentive to discount. The bottom line is that for the price of a KP - about ZAR20,000) I can get a nice twin lens EOD 77D kit. Or a Fujifilm starter pack. Or I can go mirrorless with an EOS RP with included EF adapter. Adapter for my K and M42 mount glass are available for all these choices.

How about a K70? You may ask. Yes it is cheaper more affordable than the KP, but the ghost of aperture block failure haunts me and I don't want one. I will not dwell on focus motor failure in lenses at this point, since I am not in the market for any new glass.

The one thought that saddens me is that a new KP is simply unaffordable for me. The amount of photography that I do means that I cannot justify the asking price. Something like and an EOS 2000D is what I need, but there is no Pentax in that corner of the market. The EOS M line of mirrorless cameras also look very tempting. The 1.6x crop factor on Canon APS-C bodies remain a bit of a deal breaker for me, though. Nikon is not really an option, since I cannot get a K mount adapter for them.

For the moment I will enjoy the two Pentaxes I already have. Perhaps a used K5 or K3 in the near future, who knows?

All of this is rather saddening. The most depressing is that we are now in the second quarter of the Pentax centenary and almost nothing has been released so far...
04-06-2019, 12:01 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
As a long standing Pentaxian, it saddens me to say that I don't see myself driving to (or clicking on) a shop and buying a brand new Pentax body at full retail price. Driving to a shop that stocks Pentax is a real challenge. There are only two "near" me and both of them are an hour's drive away. They might not even have the KP or K1 of my dreams in stock. The price of that KP or K1 is eye watering. Sales here in South Africa are not big, even for Nikon and Canon. Pentax sales are tiny, so there are no incentive to discount. The bottom line is that for the price of a KP - about ZAR20,000) I can get a nice twin lens EOD 77D kit. Or a Fujifilm starter pack. Or I can go mirrorless with an EOS RP with included EF adapter. Adapter for my K and M42 mount glass are available for all these choices.
That is too bad - the cheapest two-lens Canon 77D kit I can find at B&H is $1000 - 25% more than the KP; I guess our Pentax prices are better

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
How about a K70? You may ask. Yes it is cheaper more affordable than the KP, but the ghost of aperture block failure haunts me and I don't want one. I will not dwell on focus motor failure in lenses at this point, since I am not in the market for any new glass.
Letting the past haunt you is not good. All modern Canon lenses have in-lens motors - I've never had one of them fail, but I've never had a K-mount in-lens motor fail, either. The Canon 77D is essentially a Rebel; I switched back to Pentax because two Rebels of mine in a row had processor issues before they died - but that is my past - my K-30 does have aperture control issues, but at least it is still usable, while the two Rebels were consigned to the local landfill.
04-06-2019, 01:02 PM - 1 Like   #42
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David Yarrow shoots wildlife, professionally, camera with radio triggers, prefocused at a distance and fstop set for dof and fov. But a camera maker can make people buy camera models with high performance tracking, based on their lack of know-how how.
04-06-2019, 01:04 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
I don't blame you, but AF in general for single point is great, locks really well especially in dimmly lit environments. In general though I equate Pentax at primarily being a landscape camera.
This is hog feces....Below are two action shots of the A-10 Basketball Tournament shot in real time with my k-5-ii and the 50-200mm kit lens: Like my grandfather used to say, a good photographer can make good pictures with a cardboard box....when is technology enough? I think Pentax is plenty fast and I think of the camera as a tool for what my brain visualizes, not what the camera dictates to me. there are several more but I posted them previously on other threads--these are the "rejects" and they're still adequate (both unedited)
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04-06-2019, 01:04 PM   #44
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04-06-2019, 01:15 PM - 5 Likes   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
This is hog feces....Below are two action shots of the A-10 Basketball Tournament shot in real time with my k-5-ii and the 50-200mm kit lens: Like my grandfather used to say, a good photographer can make good pictures with a cardboard box....when is technology enough? I think Pentax is plenty fast and I think of the camera as a tool for what my brain visualizes, not what the camera dictates to me. there are several more but I posted them previously on other threads--these are the "rejects" and they're still adequate (both unedited)
You're entitled to your opinion, but in mine, neither of those two samples images are what I'd consider challenging as far as AF goes. You're far enough away from the subject shooting at a what I'd imagine to be at least f5.6 that pretty much everything is focused at infinity.
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