[normhead]

Until quite recently my local camera chain actually stocked and advertised Pentax. At the end they had one shelf in a mixed display with a Q7 and some lenses, a 645z, some old K-3’s and a K-1. I bought my K-1 and 28~105 from them day-of-release as a walk-in, not pre-ordered, because B&H (or Ricoh Imaging, depending on who you want to believe) screwed up my pre-order.. Of course on the K-1 there was no price premium as a new release, but I paid 11.7% Sales Tax because the store is in the part of our city that’s has the highest combined State / County / City tax. Four miles farther west the tax would have been 7.875%

In the last two years that chain has shrunk from 11 stores to three, one a brand new SuperStore that has every photographic item imaginable - except Pentax.

What we are seeing here, is not Pentax deserting retailers.... what we see here is consumers deserting retailers. Dumping Pentax may be the first step in a long slow decline, but still, it's just a step in a process that will see them shift their sales model or disappear. As far as i can tell, camera stories are going to go the Apple route, make $75 on the camera. Sell expensive accessories. Their success, like Apple resellers will come from a good price on the product, and sell you everything you could possibly need before you leave the store at double the price everyone else sells it for. Apple stores do great with his model. But it requires tech upgrades.

My iMac pro using USC-3c. To take advantage of that I have to buy expensive compatible equipment. To me that's the biggest reason for the price of lenses these days, from all brands. Make the initial purchase competitive, once the customer is locked into the brand, stick it to them. That's one of the reasons no Sigma or Tamron support is good for Pentax. There is no benefit to having lenses available from Tamron or Sigma, that is likely to make up for the sale of 100 15-30s under the Pentax brand. The few customers you get by having cheaper options available will be more than off set by the sales on lenses, especially if there is no direct competition, and the customer has no choice but to pay the asking price. And as noted looking at Apple, you want to sell to the big spenders, the cheapskates will sink you before they pony up their fair share.

Looking at Henry's here in Canada as well as Apple, have staff that run classes, have staff that can make appointments to sit down and work though issues. Find ways to bring in income with your sales staff, that go beyond just selling cameras. Sell knowledge, classes in technique and troubleshooting. Make the cameras the secondary reason people come there, like the Apple Store does with computers and Henry's's does with classes, seminars etc.

---

Last edited by normhead; 04-14-2019 at 05:55 AM.

[tim60]

I think Pentax did floorplan a few large US Dealers until Ricoh shut down the US operation and went full-internet, but their minimums were prohibitively high. They probably floorplan B&H and Adorama, but rather than accept returned unsold merchandise they pay the retailer to have a markdown sale, such as the current $500 price on the DA 20~40 silver Limited. Until quite recently my local camera chain actually stocked and advertised Pentax. At the end they had one shelf in a mixed display with a Q7 and some lenses, a 645z, some old K-3’s and a K-1.

I bought my K-1 and 28~105 from them day-of-release as a walk-in, not pre-ordered, because B&H (or Ricoh Imaging, depending on who you want to believe) screwed up my pre-order.. Of course on the K-1 there was no price premium as a new release, but I paid 11.7% Sales Tax because the store is in the part of our city that’s has the highest combined State / County / City tax. Four miles farther west the tax would have been 7.875%

In the last two years that chain has shrunk from 11 stores to three, one a brand new SuperStore that has every photographic item imaginable - except Pentax.

Hard to compete when the tax rates depend where the shop is and where the customer buys it.

Would be better to have national tax rates distributed to the various levels of government in fixed proportions.

Maybe a better business model would be to acknowledge that B&M shops showcase for online suppliers and to pay the local seller a small margin when a customer in their district buys the thing.

[rogerstg]

When I win the lotto, I will start a Pentax shop in Melbourne.

You can make a small fortune doing that; having started with a large fortune.

[monochrome]

Hard to compete when the tax rates depend where the shop is and where the customer buys it.

Would be better to have national tax rates distributed to the various levels of government in fixed proportions.

Maybe a better business model would be to acknowledge that B&M shops showcase for online suppliers and to pay the local seller a small margin when a customer in their district buys the thing.

Don’t start on universal tax rates

[texandrews]

Even reps can't get copies of cameras. I know a rep, and this person has had a devil of a time with Pentax. This person said it seemed to be getting slightly better.

I'd say we have a bad feedback loop:

• Pentax is a small company with limited resources
• It's Japanese, and they are insular both literally and figuratively. So are the others, but either less so or they have been big enough it didn't matter.
• There's all sorts of problems with stocking your store. I remember how a friend who sold Hassy back in the '80's had to lay out then exorbitant sums just to start. for smaller stores working on low margins anyway, this is tough.
• Pentax is not supporting retailers with promotions and marketing, as both Nikon and Canon---and now Sony---do. This hurts even more with a small outfit like Pentax where there's fewer buyers anyway.
• There are few reps (and as above, even they don't have examples)

Pentax should be thinking of making sure all their reps have several cameras of each type, should be at least be doing stealth marketing online, should be doing more small events at stores, should be more relaxed about "leaking" upcoming products, and should be targeting select stores around the country to stock up on good terms. That's for a start.

They are fine products, and management is doing them a disservice.

[monochrome]

What we are seeing here, is not Pentax deserting retailers.... what we see here is consumers deserting retailers. Dumping Pentax may be the first step in a long slow decline, but still, it's just a step in a process that will see them shift their sales model or disappear. As far as i can tell, camera stories are going to go the Apple route, make $75 on the camera. Sell expensive accessories. Their success, like Apple resellers will come from a good price on the product, and sell you everything you could possibly need before you leave the store at double the price everyone else sells it for. Apple stores do great with his model. But it requires tech upgrades.

My iMac pro using USC-3c. To take advantage of that I have to buy expensive compatible equipment. To me that's the rbiggest reason for the prince of lenses these days, from all brands. Make the initial purchase competitive, once the customer is locked into the brand, stick it to them. That's one of the reasons no Sigma or Tamron support is good for Pentax. There is no benefit to having lenses available from Tamron or Sigma, that is likely to make up for the sale of 100 15-30s under the Pentax brand. The few customers you get by having cheaper options available will be more than off set by the sales on lenses, especially if there is no direct competition, and the customer has no choice but to pay the asking price. And as noted looking at Apple, you want to sell to the big spenders, the cheapskates will sink you before they pony up their fair share.

Looking at Henry's here in Canada as well as Apple, have staff that run classes, have staff that can make appointments to sit down and work though issues. Find ways to bring in income with your sales staff, that go beyond just selling cameras. Sell knowledge, classes in technique and troubleshooting. Make the cameras the secondary reason people come there, like the Apple Store does with computers and Henry's's does with classes, seminars etc.

It isn’t so cut and dried. There are trade-offs.

Choice:

1. Drive 40 minutes on my Saturday, maybe they have what I want, maybe after holding it I decide I don’t want it, drive home. Pay Sales Tax. Elapsed time 120 minutes with or without the lens. Repeat trip if lens is decentered. Immediate Credit Card refund.
2. Order exactly what I want from B&H, I know it is in stock, wait two days, get a RMA# if I don’t like it or lens is decentered. Pay no Sales Tax. Watch my Credit Card activity online to ensure I get the refund.

I don’t object to the tax. It actually makes me more frugal. I object to the time spent driving and shopping, and the uncertainty. Online is too easy to overspend but it sure is efficient.

The Apple Store is insane. You have to make an appointment to buy something. If you walk in the store without an appointment and need someone to help you compare or answer a question they say, “Come back in an hour.”. You really can’t just walk up to the counter and say, “Gimme an iPad.”

They use that one-on-one time to upsell you

[Not a Number]

Order exactly what I want from B&H, I know it is in stock, wait two days, get a RMA# if I don’t like it or lens is decentered. Pay no Sales Tax. Watch my Credit Card activity online to ensure I get the refund.

B&H charges sales tax now.

[monochrome]

B&H charges sales tax now.

Well as I said, the tax doesn’t bother me so much (except on a car). The wasted time really annoys me. I don’t have that much time left as it is.

[tim60]

It isn’t so cut and dried. There are trade-offs.

Choice:

1. Drive 40 minutes on my Saturday, maybe they have what I want, maybe after holding it I decide I don’t want it, drive home. Pay Sales Tax. Elapsed time 120 minutes with or without the lens. Repeat trip if lens is decentered. Immediate Credit Card refund.
2. Order exactly what I want from B&H, I know it is in stock, wait two days, get a RMA# if I don’t like it or lens is decentered. Pay no Sales Tax. Watch my Credit Card activity online to ensure I get the refund.

I don’t object to the tax. It actually makes me more frugal. I object to the time spent driving and shopping, and the uncertainty. Online is too easy to overspend but it sure is efficient.

The Apple Store is insane. You have to make an appointment to buy something. If you walk in the store without an appointment and need someone to help you compare or answer a question they say, “Come back in an hour.”. You really can’t just walk up to the counter and say, “Gimme an iPad.”

They use that one-on-one time to upsell you

Last year I went into an Apple shop in Detroit to buy my first iPhone. I was met at the door and asked what I wanted to do. I said the model I wanted. I was taken to the right counter, shown the colours, offered to look at other, grander models, but I knew what I wanted. So in 5 minutes I was out of there with my phone. And the sales person notched up a sale of one of the upper models but not the top one. Then she could get on with waiting for the next customer to arrive.

[tim60]

Well as I said, the tax doesn’t bother me so much (except on a car). The wasted time really annoys me. I don’t have that much time left as it is.

Tax is a fact of life. Just include the tax when you think about how much stuff costs because it is compulsory to buy the tax to get the thing you really want. Wish the shops saw it that way and displayed the all-up price.

[stevebrot]

How did Pentax Alienate Retailers?

I am not sure they did. As late as 2016, it was fairly easy to find Pentax in a brick and mortar store in my area. What changed in 2016 was the loss of yet another non-big-box photography outlet. At present, the number of entities offering a selection of cameras and lenses of any brand in the Portland, Oregon area may occupy the fingers of one hand. None offers the full range of any brand. In some ways, B&M sales abandoned the makers, not the other way around.

Now, back to a few hard truths as explained to me by a store owner in or around 2010. There are a limited number of ways that camera goods get on the shelves of a physical store:

1. The store owns all stock outright and orders such from the manufacturers' distributors
2. The store may do as above, but with the option to buy on time from the distributor
3. The distributor provides, owns, and maintains store stock based on perception of market demand and uses the store as a sales agent

Distributors tend to offer only one of the three options and there are implications for all three. When Ritz Camera bit the dust in 2012, the makers using option #3 were in a world of hurt; those using option #2 somewhat less so. Pentax under Hoya offered option #2, as I understood the discussion mentioned above, and would have at least recouped at least some bad debt.

As related to me in 2010, Pentax still had an team of outside sales representative actively working the stores in their territories. As the ranks of such stores thinned, the ability of a territory support to its reps became less and less possible. Sales were increasingly through online retailers and big box stores and product placement depended on the ability of the distributors to provide good deals to the retailers and also the ability to counter exclusivity agreements with vendors. In 2014, I asked the manager of Camera World in downtown Portland why they did not stock other than token Sony product (e.g. no Sony FF offerings). The answer was that Sony had an exclusive product placement contract with Best Buy and as a result, Best Buy "owned" Sony for the Portland market and also dictated what competitor's product was offered by Best Buy*. Still, though, Camera World did offer the full Pentax line of bodies and a decent selection of lenses up until they abruptly shut their doors winter of 2016.

Back to Pentax...the network of field reps in the USA collapsed about the time the offices, warehouses, and repair center in Boulder, Colorado were closed. The business model was unsustainable without a healthy local and independent retail presence.

BTW...the collapse of Ritz was a boon to me. How does $500 USD for a new and fully warrantied FA 77/1.8 Limited from a reputable authorized dealer sound?


Steve

* Told me by an employee at Best Buy where Sony got premium product placement while other brands are placed on side aisles away from customer travel. This has moderated somewhat, but the last time I looked, one did not find head-to-head on adjoining space.

[Adam]

Living in Southern California no camera stores sell Pentax gear. Even those like Samy's who have around 9 locations and claim to carry Pentax have an extremely limited selection. I was in LA yesterday, so I stopped at Samy's store there. When I asked if they had a Pentax KP the guy at the counter went into a min-rant about Pentax, their lack of reps and that they were not putting out any new products. (?) Pentax needs to have a presence in stores on the West Coast, especially in California if they want to sell more products. I would love to know what they are doing out here. Is there a Southern California rep? Heck, I was in the Leica Gallery for a photo exhibit and a few people came up to me asking about my K-1, and making statements like they didn't know that Pentax was still in business.

I think their aversion to physical stores in the US is deliberate given the limited market share, as a strategy to maximize profitability.

[stevebrot]

B&H charges sales tax now.

They don't for Washington.


Steve

[boriscleto]

They don't for Washington.


Steve

It's state by state now. Probably coming soon to your state...

[monochrome]

Last year I went into an Apple shop in Detroit to buy my first iPhone. I was met at the door and asked what I wanted to do. I said the model I wanted. I was taken to the right counter, shown the colours, offered to look at other, grander models, but I knew what I wanted. So in 5 minutes I was out of there with my phone. And the sales person notched up a sale of one of the upper models but not the top one. Then she could get on with waiting for the next customer to arrive.

The St. Louis SMSA has a population of 2.5MM people. There are two Apple Stores here, both in lively malls in HNW Zip Codes.

I literally cannot walk in an Apple Store and receive immediate service in the late afternoon to store closing or Saturday or Sunday, the times that I (and everyone else, it seems) want to shop for Apple products. There’s an associate stationed at the door who tells me how long the wait is for an associate ‘visit’. You can’t just walk to the counter in the back and say, “I want an iPhone.” An associate has to take you back there with his/her iPad order entered - thus, “Come back in an hour,” is not an exaggeration.