How did Pentax Alienate Retailers?

Joe Dusel · 04-13-2019, 09:02 PM - **2 Likes**

Thanks all for the responses. I guess I was just surprised that there do not seem to be any B & M stores that really carry Pentax in Southern California. I will just continue to buy my cameras and lenses from B & H or Adorama. Buying from Amazon is iffy. I bought a Pentax 24-70mm lense from Amazon last year and they shipped it to me in a padded envelope. The Pentax box was slightly damaged, and the lens focus was a bit off, so I returned it. Fortunately Amazon has a great return policy. I then bought the lens from B & H who properly packaged the lens and it worked perfectly. Still, I think it would be really nice if Pentax had a travelling rep that went around the country to photography schools and photography clubs to give demos on the equipment. Lots of times at events I feel like I am a Pentax rep myself explaining all of the features and benefits of Pentax cameras to people who didn't know that Pentax still makes cameras. Heck, maybe Pentax should setup a program where we Pentax owners could get cards to hand out to people we meet and get a commission for anyone who buys through an included link. At the very least Pentax could give us discounts for new equipment if we manage to get them another customer. I end up telling people about all of the great features on my camera, so sometimes I feel like a salesman anyway.

DeKay · 04-13-2019, 09:08 PM - **1 Like**

I had an interesting discussion with the local camera store here in Perth. They do stock a limited range of Pentax gear, but the salesman said they don’t like to sell it, mainly because of the backwards compatibility. He said people come in and buy the body but don’t need any lenses because they have a bag full of them at home.

biz-engineer · 04-13-2019, 10:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Joe Dusel

Lots of times at events I feel like I am a Pentax rep myself explaining all of the features and benefits of Pentax cameras to people who didn't know that Pentax still makes cameras. Heck, maybe Pentax should setup a program where we Pentax owners could get cards to hand out to people we meet and get a commission for anyone who buys through an included link. At the very least Pentax could give us discounts for new equipment if we manage to get them another customer.

That's what ambassadors are supposed to do, looks like Pentax ambassadors are hiding somewhere, because I have to look for them. Nikon ambassadors are a lot more visible. For ordering we don't need to have B&M stores. For the specs we can get them online. For trying/feeling... that is what limits Pentax. I bought the K1 because I could try it, next time that won't be the case because the shop stopped carrying Pentax.

beholder3 · 04-13-2019, 11:08 PM - **1 Like**

In the worlds biggest single market, in Europe, everyone can feel / testdrive Pentax cameras (any product) for free for 2 weeks when bought online and send it back without need to give any reason to the retailer.

That 2 weeks time is explicitly intended to replace in-store handling options and to impose similar cost to online retailers compared to B&M stores who have to pay for demo units.

So whatever you would do in a B&M store you can and should do online as well. Grab 2 copies of a lens to select the best one? Do it. Compare 3 camera models side by side? Do it.

**pentaxus** · 04-13-2019, 11:19 PM - **1 Like**

A few years ago Pentax offered dealers in the United States something like 25% off low wholesale if they bought a certain quantity of product for display purposes. The Items could be rented, but not sold for one year. I'm not sure if they still do it, but Sony does. I don't think that many dealers took them up on it. For the most part, nobody offers a dealer the option of returning unsold product. Pentax was weak when they were purchased by THK and that hobbled them even more. I suspect that the biggest problem is that now Pentax is such a small percentage of the market. Maybe Pentax would be helped by a smaller minimum order but some dealers think it would just be easier to not stock Pentax.

RonHendriks1966 · 04-14-2019, 12:39 AM - **1 Like**

B&M stores don't have it easy. Over the past decade the camera market went down......So 1/3th of the market disappeared. .......then how much (another 1/3th) went to online retailers......leaving the B&M stores with 1/3th of the sales a decade ago. Then you just start to cut corners and don't stock what is not moving fast enough.

texandrews · 04-14-2019, 07:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

That's what ambassadors are supposed to do, looks like Pentax ambassadors are hiding somewhere, because I have to look for them. Nikon ambassadors are a lot more visible. For ordering we don't need to have B&M stores. For the specs we can get them online. For trying/feeling... that is what limits Pentax. I bought the K1 because I could try it, next time that won't be the case because the shop stopped carrying Pentax.

Again, it's a problem with Pentax management. If I had appointed an ambassador, and their presence was actually an absence, then I would hustle to change those ambassadors! Seems like a true "no-brainer" to me!

normhead · 04-14-2019, 08:02 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by texandrews

Again, it's a problem with Pentax management. If I had appointed an ambassador, and their presence was actually an absence, then I would hustle to change those ambassadors! Seems like a true "no-brainer" to me!

Pentax has run a few shows in a few places the last few years. But, the big question remains, with such low sales, how do they get their money back?
One of the few shops that still supports Pentax new and used, ordered in 10 K-1s and sold them all, in the initial rush to buy, but 10 cameras doesn't keep a camera store afloat very long.

Tashbir · 04-14-2019, 08:28 AM - **1 Like**

If you live here in the European Union, there is no problem buying Pentax cameras and lenses even though they are hardly found in retail stores or are more expensive than online shopping. To be honest, I buy from there the cheapest I get. Over the last year, cameras K1 and K3 from Germany, Pentax used 150-450mm and 85mm A 1.4 from the UK, extension tube and 300mm f4 from France, 15-30mm f2.8 from Finland, 28-105mm from Germany, 50mm A 1.2 from Spain and so on. I bought a small camera case from Amazon in Germany and a big backpack from Sweden.

In my hometown, there is only one camera store that sells Pentax. Their prices are competitive only during Black Friday sales once a year. I believe that retailers do not manage to compete with big online stores and will disappear in the future if consumers only buy from there to get the easiest and cheapest.

biz-engineer · 04-14-2019, 08:38 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

Pentax has run a few shows in a few places the last few years. But, the big question remains, with such low sales, how do they get their money back?

Pentax have a minority market share , yet they price camera aggressively, the promotional effort is on the price, not on the shelf space at B&M stores. At the moment , a Pentax K1 can be bought new for about 1300 Euros, Nikon will happily charge 2800 Euros for a D810. There's no secret, the money has to come from somewhere.

stevebrot · 04-14-2019, 08:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by beholder3

In the worlds biggest single market, in Europe, everyone can feel / testdrive Pentax cameras (any product) for free for 2 weeks when bought online and send it back without need to give any reason to the retailer.

One can do the same in the U.S., but usually not for refund. The returned cameras cannot be sold as new or returned to the distributor as excess stock and are a significant burden to the vendor in that they must be sold as used. Buying to try is considered unethical 'round these parts.

Originally posted by beholder3

That 2 weeks time is explicitly intended to replace in-store handling options and to impose similar cost to online retailers compared to B&M stores who have to pay for demo units.

Huh??? Is this by statute? Most B&M stores have ONE demo for each model at most. BTW...I thought you lived in Polynesia.

Steve

biz-engineer · 04-14-2019, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

So whatever you would do in a B&M store you can and should do online as well. Grab 2 copies of a lens to select the best one? Do it. Compare 3 camera models side by side? Do it.

In theory it is possible, in practice not so much. Every time I wanted to return a product, within the first few days after reception, I had to provide good reasons for a refund to be accepted. If the reason was "erroneous order" (wrong product) they wouldn't accept the return/refund is the package had been open. And if the package had been open after reception, I had to provide evidence of why the product wasn't conform to specifications / working properly as it should. So, I personally would take the risk to order two or three products, unbox them, try them out and try to get a refund.

disconnekt · 04-14-2019, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by DeKay

I had an interesting discussion with the local camera store here in Perth. They do stock a limited range of Pentax gear, but the salesman said they don’t like to sell it, mainly because of the backwards compatibility. He said people come in and buy the body but don’t need any lenses because they have a bag full of them at home.

Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" 😞

normhead · 04-14-2019, 09:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by disconnekt

Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" 😞

Hence the Pentax sterotype.
" A Pentax user is a person who will put a $50 lens on a $2000 camera.

Some people seem to think there's something wrong with that.

biz-engineer · 04-14-2019, 09:50 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by disconnekt

Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" ��

I was also confronted to this case. The seller tries to make me switch from Pentax to another brand so that I'd have to buy a new set of lenses. They make a lot more money out of selling complete new systems. They kept being a Pentax retailer because they offered every Pentax user to buy back all their Pentax gear for a reasonable price in exchange of a complete new Sony system. So, they completely drained the region from Pentax users.

---------- Post added 14-04-19 at 18:53 ----------

Originally posted by normhead

Some people seem to think there's something wrong with that.

When they know you are this type of customers, they don't have time for you, they try to serve the guy with deep pockets first.

04-13-2019, 10:26 PM - 1 Like	#33
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Joe Dusel Lots of times at events I feel like I am a Pentax rep myself explaining all of the features and benefits of Pentax cameras to people who didn't know that Pentax still makes cameras. Heck, maybe Pentax should setup a program where we Pentax owners could get cards to hand out to people we meet and get a commission for anyone who buys through an included link. At the very least Pentax could give us discounts for new equipment if we manage to get them another customer. That's what ambassadors are supposed to do, looks like Pentax ambassadors are hiding somewhere, because I have to look for them. Nikon ambassadors are a lot more visible. For ordering we don't need to have B&M stores. For the specs we can get them online. For trying/feeling... that is what limits Pentax. I bought the K1 because I could try it, next time that won't be the case because the shop stopped carrying Pentax. Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-13-2019 at 10:39 PM.

04-14-2019, 08:40 AM - 1 Like	#41
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by beholder3 In the worlds biggest single market, in Europe, everyone can feel / testdrive Pentax cameras (any product) for free for 2 weeks when bought online and send it back without need to give any reason to the retailer. One can do the same in the U.S., but usually not for refund. The returned cameras cannot be sold as new or returned to the distributor as excess stock and are a significant burden to the vendor in that they must be sold as used. Buying to try is considered unethical 'round these parts. Originally posted by beholder3 That 2 weeks time is explicitly intended to replace in-store handling options and to impose similar cost to online retailers compared to B&M stores who have to pay for demo units. Huh??? Is this by statute? Most B&M stores have ONE demo for each model at most. BTW...I thought you lived in Polynesia. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 04-14-2019 at 08:47 AM.

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04-13-2019, 09:02 PM - 2 Likes	#31
Joe Dusel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 126 Original Poster	Thanks all for the responses. I guess I was just surprised that there do not seem to be any B & M stores that really carry Pentax in Southern California. I will just continue to buy my cameras and lenses from B & H or Adorama. Buying from Amazon is iffy. I bought a Pentax 24-70mm lense from Amazon last year and they shipped it to me in a padded envelope. The Pentax box was slightly damaged, and the lens focus was a bit off, so I returned it. Fortunately Amazon has a great return policy. I then bought the lens from B & H who properly packaged the lens and it worked perfectly. Still, I think it would be really nice if Pentax had a travelling rep that went around the country to photography schools and photography clubs to give demos on the equipment. Lots of times at events I feel like I am a Pentax rep myself explaining all of the features and benefits of Pentax cameras to people who didn't know that Pentax still makes cameras. Heck, maybe Pentax should setup a program where we Pentax owners could get cards to hand out to people we meet and get a commission for anyone who buys through an included link. At the very least Pentax could give us discounts for new equipment if we manage to get them another customer. I end up telling people about all of the great features on my camera, so sometimes I feel like a salesman anyway.

04-13-2019, 09:08 PM - 1 Like	#32
DeKay Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Photos: Albums Posts: 208	I had an interesting discussion with the local camera store here in Perth. They do stock a limited range of Pentax gear, but the salesman said they don’t like to sell it, mainly because of the backwards compatibility. He said people come in and buy the body but don’t need any lenses because they have a bag full of them at home.

04-13-2019, 11:08 PM - 1 Like	#34
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	In the worlds biggest single market, in Europe, everyone can feel / testdrive Pentax cameras (any product) for free for 2 weeks when bought online and send it back without need to give any reason to the retailer. That 2 weeks time is explicitly intended to replace in-store handling options and to impose similar cost to online retailers compared to B&M stores who have to pay for demo units. So whatever you would do in a B&M store you can and should do online as well. Grab 2 copies of a lens to select the best one? Do it. Compare 3 camera models side by side? Do it.

04-13-2019, 11:19 PM - 1 Like	#35
pentaxus Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central Coast, CA Posts: 1,313	A few years ago Pentax offered dealers in the United States something like 25% off low wholesale if they bought a certain quantity of product for display purposes. The Items could be rented, but not sold for one year. I'm not sure if they still do it, but Sony does. I don't think that many dealers took them up on it. For the most part, nobody offers a dealer the option of returning unsold product. Pentax was weak when they were purchased by THK and that hobbled them even more. I suspect that the biggest problem is that now Pentax is such a small percentage of the market. Maybe Pentax would be helped by a smaller minimum order but some dealers think it would just be easier to not stock Pentax.

04-14-2019, 12:39 AM - 1 Like	#36
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	B&M stores don't have it easy. Over the past decade the camera market went down......So 1/3th of the market disappeared. .......then how much (another 1/3th) went to online retailers......leaving the B&M stores with 1/3th of the sales a decade ago. Then you just start to cut corners and don't stock what is not moving fast enough.

04-14-2019, 07:42 AM - 1 Like	#37
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,392	Originally posted by biz-engineer That's what ambassadors are supposed to do, looks like Pentax ambassadors are hiding somewhere, because I have to look for them. Nikon ambassadors are a lot more visible. For ordering we don't need to have B&M stores. For the specs we can get them online. For trying/feeling... that is what limits Pentax. I bought the K1 because I could try it, next time that won't be the case because the shop stopped carrying Pentax. Again, it's a problem with Pentax management. If I had appointed an ambassador, and their presence was actually an absence, then I would hustle to change those ambassadors! Seems like a true "no-brainer" to me!

04-14-2019, 08:02 AM - 1 Like	#38
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by texandrews Again, it's a problem with Pentax management. If I had appointed an ambassador, and their presence was actually an absence, then I would hustle to change those ambassadors! Seems like a true "no-brainer" to me! Pentax has run a few shows in a few places the last few years. But, the big question remains, with such low sales, how do they get their money back? One of the few shops that still supports Pentax new and used, ordered in 10 K-1s and sold them all, in the initial rush to buy, but 10 cameras doesn't keep a camera store afloat very long.

04-14-2019, 08:28 AM - 1 Like	#39
Tashbir New Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 18	If you live here in the European Union, there is no problem buying Pentax cameras and lenses even though they are hardly found in retail stores or are more expensive than online shopping. To be honest, I buy from there the cheapest I get. Over the last year, cameras K1 and K3 from Germany, Pentax used 150-450mm and 85mm A 1.4 from the UK, extension tube and 300mm f4 from France, 15-30mm f2.8 from Finland, 28-105mm from Germany, 50mm A 1.2 from Spain and so on. I bought a small camera case from Amazon in Germany and a big backpack from Sweden. In my hometown, there is only one camera store that sells Pentax. Their prices are competitive only during Black Friday sales once a year. I believe that retailers do not manage to compete with big online stores and will disappear in the future if consumers only buy from there to get the easiest and cheapest.

04-14-2019, 08:38 AM - 1 Like	#40
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by normhead Pentax has run a few shows in a few places the last few years. But, the big question remains, with such low sales, how do they get their money back? Pentax have a minority market share , yet they price camera aggressively, the promotional effort is on the price, not on the shelf space at B&M stores. At the moment , a Pentax K1 can be bought new for about 1300 Euros, Nikon will happily charge 2800 Euros for a D810. There's no secret, the money has to come from somewhere.

04-14-2019, 08:59 AM	#42
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by beholder3 So whatever you would do in a B&M store you can and should do online as well. Grab 2 copies of a lens to select the best one? Do it. Compare 3 camera models side by side? Do it. In theory it is possible, in practice not so much. Every time I wanted to return a product, within the first few days after reception, I had to provide good reasons for a refund to be accepted. If the reason was "erroneous order" (wrong product) they wouldn't accept the return/refund is the package had been open. And if the package had been open after reception, I had to provide evidence of why the product wasn't conform to specifications / working properly as it should. So, I personally would take the risk to order two or three products, unbox them, try them out and try to get a refund.

04-14-2019, 09:23 AM	#43
disconnekt Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SoCal/I.E. Photos: Albums Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by DeKay I had an interesting discussion with the local camera store here in Perth. They do stock a limited range of Pentax gear, but the salesman said they don’t like to sell it, mainly because of the backwards compatibility. He said people come in and buy the body but don’t need any lenses because they have a bag full of them at home. Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" 😞

04-14-2019, 09:37 AM - 1 Like	#44
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by disconnekt Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" 😞 Hence the Pentax sterotype. " A Pentax user is a person who will put a $50 lens on a $2000 camera. Some people seem to think there's something wrong with that.

04-14-2019, 09:50 AM - 1 Like	#45
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by disconnekt Yeah, noticed that with a decent bulk of users here are in that group, especially when it comes to AF like "why should I buy a new AF lense(s) when I can use the AF lens I have at home from 20 years ago?" �� I was also confronted to this case. The seller tries to make me switch from Pentax to another brand so that I'd have to buy a new set of lenses. They make a lot more money out of selling complete new systems. They kept being a Pentax retailer because they offered every Pentax user to buy back all their Pentax gear for a reasonable price in exchange of a complete new Sony system. So, they completely drained the region from Pentax users. ---------- Post added 14-04-19 at 18:53 ---------- Originally posted by normhead Some people seem to think there's something wrong with that. When they know you are this type of customers, they don't have time for you, they try to serve the guy with deep pockets first.