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04-16-2019, 04:01 AM - 1 Like   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
When I bought the K-1 last year B&H told me they are now required by my state to collect sales taxes.

I checked with Adorama, and they were not collecting sales taxes for my state.

So I bought the K-1 at Adorama.


So collecting out of state sales tax is a bit of a scam like airport 'duty free'. They do not charge for tax, but instead of discounting the price by that amount, reduce the price a bit and pocket the difference as higher profit.

04-16-2019, 04:14 AM   #77
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So, is there something we can do?

Not about taxes----that's a different battle in each country, and in the U.S. each state as well.

But I read the comments here---such as not being able to put your hands on Pentax equipment in Toronto---an amazing city and one of the largest and best in North America---and this last S.A. comment, and it makes me want to collectively do something to shake Ricoh -Pentax out of their apparent lethargy on matters of marketing, customer outreach, support for reps and dealers, and general communication and presentation issues.

I wonder if Pentax Forums shouldn't be the place where an open letter could started to send to Ricoh-Pentax management. Properly crafted it would at least elicit a response of some kind, and possibly begin an engagement between the company that makes the products we favor and we the users.

I'm not talking about a "we need this x new lens or body" discussion, but one that addresses some of what we have been talking about here, and is discussed elsewhere as well.
04-16-2019, 05:18 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
I wonder if Pentax Forums shouldn't be the place where an open letter could started to send to Ricoh-Pentax management.
There have been a number of "letters" to Ricoh over the years.

Open letter to Ricoh: Ultimate pocketable camera (GRx) Concept - PentaxForums.com

Open letter to Ricoh - PentaxForums.com

An Open Letter to Sony, Ricoh, Hasselblad and Phase One - PentaxForums.com
04-16-2019, 05:23 AM - 2 Likes   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Not about taxes----that's a different battle in each country, and in the U.S. each state as well.

But I read the comments here---such as not being able to put your hands on Pentax equipment in Toronto---an amazing city and one of the largest and best in North America---and this last S.A. comment, and it makes me want to collectively do something to shake Ricoh -Pentax out of their apparent lethargy on matters of marketing, customer outreach, support for reps and dealers, and general communication and presentation issues.

I wonder if Pentax Forums shouldn't be the place where an open letter could started to send to Ricoh-Pentax management. Properly crafted it would at least elicit a response of some kind, and possibly begin an engagement between the company that makes the products we favor and we the users.

I'm not talking about a "we need this x new lens or body" discussion, but one that addresses some of what we have been talking about here, and is discussed elsewhere as well.
B&M stores are a disaster, Tex, companies shouldn't prop them up!

And big budget promotion makes no sense for any company if the camera market halves.



04-16-2019, 05:54 AM - 1 Like   #80
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Did any of those open letters do any good at all other than give the participants a feeling of "well we did something"? Ricoh/Pentax is probably well aware of their situation worldwide but as others have said they are a Japan-centric company. Since the ILC markets are in the midst of contraction, I think Ricoh/Pentax would better serve their customers with their limited resources by making the very best DSLRs and Lens they can for their intended price point.
04-16-2019, 06:00 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
B&M stores are a disaster, Tex, companies shouldn't prop them up!
They need to be creative to exist. Buy from on-line companies that offer free returns if you aren't happy with the product. I stopped shopping at one Toronto area camera store when the told me they wouldn't return lens more than once. we have a forum member who had to return his Tamron 70-200 to get a good copy. If people want to bi-pass my ability to handle and check out the lens before I buy, they absolutely have to guarantee me I get a functioning copy of the lens. It's only a mater of time before some shysters find out how to buy returned lenses and start selling them as new. then refusing to take them back. In fact Henry's once shipped me a camera that had been returned as defective, by accident. They would have driven a new body to my house if I didn't live so far from their stores, but it ended up costing me about 2 weeks of camera use. I simply will not deal with a company where if I'm not 100% satisfied I can't return the product at no cost to myself for 100% cash back. No shipping costs, no restocking costs, no "store credit".

When I ordered my DA*200 2.8 form the Camera Store the sales person promised to thoroughly check out the lens to make sure it was in good working condition before shipping. So B&M stores can have an advantage even on line.
04-16-2019, 06:15 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
Now the Pentax experience...go to the 3 largest photo stores in Toronto, ask to hold a Pentax K1...told sorry not in stock in the store...need to order one...have to put a deposit on one before ordered. Unless you are a Pentaxian you would likely move on to Canon/Nikon. I think the only store I could walk in and touch one was in NYC's B&H.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
They need to be creative to exist. Buy from on-line companies that offer free returns if you aren't happy with the product. I stopped shopping at one Toronto area camera store when the told me they wouldn't return lens more than once.
I don't know much about the specific question of retailer alienation, nor do I have much concern about the Pentax 'market share'. Personally, I feel that I can gain lots of information about Pentax products through online sources, including this forum, so I don't feel bound to B&M stores for advice or assistance. When I decide to shop for my next camera, I would hope to be able to hold it and play with it before committing to the purchase. Having a local retail outlet would be convenient, but not essential.

Similar to Toronto, no dealers in Ottawa (pop. 1 million) stock Pentax. A Canadian photo/camera chain has a branch that I can walk to in 15 minutes, and an online presence. They'll order Pentax for you, but you're fully committed to such special orders - no returns (except for defective products). So, there's no 'try and buy' option, only 'buy and keep'. They stocked Pentax on the shelf until several years ago; I don't buy Pentax from them now because their policy on Pentax places all the risk on me.

Fortunately, there are several good options for buying new Pentax gear in Canada. I recently bought a Pentax DA 20-40mm Limited online from a retailer in London Ontario (pop. 350,000). They have a B&M store and a good website. Yup, the lens was in stock, so 'click-click-click' on a Wednesday evening and it was delivered to my house on Friday morning. They have a reasonable 7-day return policy.

I could purchase Pentax from other online sources in Canada, including Amazon, or from a B&M store in Montreal, about 2 hours drive from here. I could also order from B&H or Adorama; import duty is not applied on camera equipment, but I'd have to pay the 13% federal/Ontario sales tax.

Concerning Ricoh's marketing and promotion of Pentax products, I'm not really too fussed over their low profile in Canada. I don't feel obligated to help a large corporation with their marketing or sales.

There was one instance when being able to handle various items was very useful for me -- at a photo expo in Montreal a couple of years ago, Pentax had a small booth with most of the products on display. The booth was quiet when I visited, so I was able to spend about 30 minutes handling a K-1 and lenses, including the D-FA 70-200.

- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 04-16-2019 at 12:15 PM.
04-16-2019, 06:22 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Similar to Toronto, no dealers in Ottawa (pop. 1 million) stock Pentax. A well-known Canadian photo/camera chain has a store branch about 15-minute walk from my house and a good online presence.
About 5 years ago, I bought my used FA 35-80 from a display case at Henry's downtown in Ottawa. I guess times have changed. There was also an old store that had Pentax product in stock a few blocks away., just down the street. They didn't have much but they had basic kit in stock. At that time i found 3 stores on a short walk up Bank Street. The last time I went, 4 years ago one of them had closed.
04-16-2019, 06:30 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgski Quote
it seems like Pentax has a larger presence in Australia and the countries closer to Japan.
I personally have bought lenses etc from Japan via eBay as the postage is usually around $15 or $20 to Australia.
Buying the same item from USA usually has $75-$150 in postage costs to Australia.
Obviously the postage sometimes being more than the item, USA to Australia is very rarely a viable option for myself.

I usually see roughly around the same amount of Pentax items available on eBay from either country.

I don't know if that makes a difference.

Last edited by VILLAINofOZ; 04-16-2019 at 06:37 AM.
04-16-2019, 07:17 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Did any of those open letters do any good at all other than give the participants a feeling of "well we did something"?
My point exactly.
04-16-2019, 07:36 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
Now the Pentax experience...go to the 3 largest photo stores in Toronto, ask to hold a Pentax K1...told sorry not in stock in the store...need to order one...have to put a deposit on one before ordered. Unless you are a Pentaxian you would likely move on to Canon/Nikon. I think the only store I could walk in and touch one was in NYC's B&H.
I just phoned Downtown Camera on Queen Street in Toronto and spoke with the salesman I usually work with. They have a K-1 II in stock as well as a good selection of other Pentax bodies and lenses. Did you go there? I have been dealing with them since 1975 and have always found them to have a good selection of different brands as well as a wide range of second-hand stock. I was there last Friday, and they appear to be carrying even more stock than on my previous visits. I do not find the stock at Henry's or Vistek to be as extensive.

Last edited by cpk; 04-16-2019 at 07:54 AM.
04-16-2019, 07:46 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
I just phoned Downtown Camera on Queen Street in Toronto and spoke with the salesman I usually work with. They have a K1 II in stock as well as a good selection of other Pentax bodies and lenses. Did you go there? I have been dealing with them since 1975 and have always found them to have a good selection of different brands as well as a wide range of second-hand stock. I was there last Friday, and they appear to be carrying even more stock than on my previous visits. I do not find the stock at Henry's or Vistek to be as extensive.
Downtown camera and Aden camera can occasionally surprise you. Unfortunately, I no longer can get to downtown as much as I'd like. As much as I'd like to wander through Ryerson's photo arts department, the Ryerson Photography Museum, and all my old haunts. I'm going to come down for a couple nights sometime and just celebrate my past. For a year that area was my stomping grounds, even if it probably doesn't look much like it did.

---------- Post added 04-16-19 at 10:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Did any of those open letters do any good at all other than give the participants a feeling of "well we did something"?
No-one knows, no one will ever know. Did any of those letters provide Pentax with any actionable courses of action? I have to say, when I look at what Pentax has done, and all the suggestions etc. I'm pretty happy with what Pentax has done, and find many of the suggestions extremely problematic in that they include what would be costly inclusions of things I don't want. Just because we send them suggestions, doesn't mean they are good suggestions.

My guess is, that forum suggestions are not really terribly realistic. We get stuff like, "You can add 4k video ins software at practically no cost." and stuff like that. It tells Pentax what people think, most of the suggestions are impractical or already being done. I wouldn't say the whole exercise is waste of time, but there is the unstated opinion that anyone who owns a Pentax camera knows enough about the camera industry to make these kinds of suggestions. I don't buy that premise, never have, never will.

Currently, Pentax's biggest question is "what lens should we release next." That's what they themselves poll for. I'm sure they find the technical knowledge of Pentax camera systems required to make some of the suggestions thrown out there are so completely absurd to someone who actually understands the camera systems as to be immediately discardable. There's a difference between asking for a feature and understanding the consequences of actually implementing one.

Last edited by normhead; 04-16-2019 at 08:13 AM.
04-16-2019, 09:30 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
Now the Pentax experience...go to the 3 largest photo stores in Toronto, ask to hold a Pentax K1...told sorry not in stock in the store...need to order one...have to put a deposit on one before ordered. Unless you are a Pentaxian you would likely move on to Canon/Nikon. I think the only store I could walk in and touch one was in NYC's B&H.
Henry's recently opened a store in Vancouver and I popped in yesterday to check it out. Not one Pentax item!

Went next door to a local drugstore chain and they had a K1-ii & a few Pentax lenses. Most b&m stores in Vancouver have a few Pentax items (used as well), the rest you have to special order.


Phil.
04-16-2019, 09:52 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
B&M stores are a disaster, Tex, companies shouldn't prop them up!
Maybe in Australia. Still not true in the U.S. Pro shops and the smarter mom and pops are still viable. There's an excellent one just a couple of blocks from me, and my friend who is an independent rep is doing very well, expanding business.

QuoteQuote:
And big budget promotion makes no sense for any company if the camera market halves.
I have never advocated for big budget promotion. It makes almost no sense unless the company is huge. I'm talking about small budget promotion, leveraging outlets online to gin up interest, and use the available portals yourselves. Why, for instance, is the Ricoh website effectively inert?
04-16-2019, 10:16 AM - 1 Like   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Henry's recently opened a store in Vancouver and I popped in yesterday to check it out. Not one Pentax item!
I stopped into the Henry's in St. Catherines a few years ago where I's bought Pentax gear like my K-x in the past. I asked where the Pentax gear was. 'They just came in from the truck and took it all the other day." "Was it not selling?" , "it was selling as well as ever. I don't know why they took it." I know from talking the time before they sold their first 10 K-1s they received and had to stop taking orders because they had a back log of 10 and were only receiving 5 at time about once a month. There was another Pentax user behind me at the counter. We looked at each other astonished.

All I can say, is there's something going on at Henry's even their staff can't explain.

I was in London shooting a wedding a while ago, Canada Camera had an ad in the local paper where a sale on K-70s was top of the ad., and they listed a number of lenses in stock. I ordered my latest 55-300 PLM from them. You gotta support the people who support you.

I can't tell whoever runs Henry's how to run their business. My only vote is with my dollar. I had a pro account there, was frequently served by their professional services department, bought every camera and lens there from my *ist D, K100D, K-x, 2 K-5s K-20D to my k-3, with total expenditure of $10,000 over 8 years. Lenses? DA*60-250 , FA 50 1.7, Sigma 70-300, FA 18-135. They've pretty much lost my business.

My last purchases DA 55-PLM, DA* 55 1.4, DA*200 2.8, DFA 100 macro, DA 28-105, K-1 have all been from other sources.

As i said, I can't tell them how to run their business, that's their choice. They can't tell me where to shop. That's my choice.

Last edited by normhead; 04-16-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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