[texandrews]

And people in roles like that are rich enough they do not need to fuss over saving a few dollars on day to day household stuff. Kind of supports my case.

What about the crowd at Walmart or the wait staff paid so badly by restauranteurs that they need and expect gifts from customers to keep them going.

"Name an employer who will give such a generous pay raise." You asked, and got whatcha asked for.

[texandrews]

Federal civilian employees got a 1% cost-of-living raise this year, plus an additional amount for locality adjustment. In the DC area that amounted to a total of 1.6%. A standard civilian employee, even in a senior management role, is topped out at a GS-15 step 10 equivalent. In DC's very high cost of living bracket that amounts to something like $170k. Certainly a very healthy salary, but that doesn't even begin to compare to the high earners in the public sector. Even members of the Senior Executive Service, who oversee large agencies and must be approved by Congress, are capped at the Vice President's salary of about $230k; that doesn't even put a household in the highest tax bracket. Your Goldman Sachs-type executives are making many $millions a year.

Many civilians are under a performance pay plan where they can get small bonuses for doing a good job, but after a number of years of seniority you're capped out in your pay band and it would all come as bonus, no additional salary. Nearly half comes out in taxes and other withholding, and it doesn't carry over into next year's salary.

In any case, executive branch employees raises are largely at the whims of Congress and the President, and I don't know that we've seen one over 3% in at least a decade. There have been multiple years recently where there was no increase at all.

---------- Post added 04-22-19 at 07:51 AM ----------



I work for an agency under the executive branch and I've been saving my Amazon points for months to get an HD DA 21mm F/3.2 limited. Not that $400 would break me, far from it. But with kids and college savings and retirement savings and a mortgage and utilities and that heat pump that just broke it seems kind of irresponsible to spend a lot of money on non-essential camera equipment. If I can save 10-20% on something I'll certainly do that.

Not that it's really relevant to this discussion, since the closest brick and mortar store selling Pentax is almost two hours away...

Thor, buddy---I work at one of the Smithsonian museums, and the people in my group have had no increases since 2011 (well, that's when I started, so It's all I can personally attest to).

I'm not talking about you or me.

[ThorSanchez]

Thor, buddy---I work at one of the Smithsonian museums, and the people in my group have had no increases since 2011 (well, that's when I started, so It's all I can personally attest to).

I'm not talking about you or me.

I'm not sure who you are talking about. Nobody in federal service gets a special 20% raise even at the highest levels, and they're all capped at Congressional or Vice Presidential maximum salaries.

Most regular folks who've worked for the government are doing just fine and we get a good benefits package. But for senior engineers, scientists, managers, executives... you certainly can make more money with private firms. In my organization we're split between contractors and civilians, and the highest-paid employees are always the senior contractors. The PM of a moderately big contract can make double what my civilian division director or even National department lead makes.

[Racer X 69]

Certainly a very healthy salary, but that doesn't even begin to compare to the high earners in the public sector.

I worked for 30 years in the public sector (at a publicly owned electric utility).

The highest I ever earned was about $120,000 a year, and only owing to plenty of overtime from working wind storms to help restore power.

And those high earning years were during the last few years I worked there.

Sure, the earnings were good, but I can't characterized the wages as "high". My pay was competitive with people doing similar work in the private sector.

[emalvick]

Interesting thread.

This issues discussed are really much wider than Pentax or even cameras. Internet retail can out compete B&M shopping because they don't need to pay for retail workers, they don't need to pay a lease on a physical space, and so on. Who's to blame for this, well the responsibility lies all over the place and is probably rooted back with the suburbanization of everything.

Where I grew up, it was the big chain B&M shopping that put all the local smalltown retailers out of business. Now the internet is putting those big chain B&M's out of business. I am sure there will continue to be an evolution, although I am not sure exactly how, and it will probably depend on the type of product and companies.

For cameras, there certainly would have to be a benefit to allowing people to get their hands on them, but the camera industry is reeling a bit when you consider the role phones play. This is part of why all the companies are in a struggle. There is a retail dilemma brewing because of the challenge of some people wanting physical stores but not sufficiently (or economically enough) to make it work. And there is other nostalgia factors that make all business struggle (books vs ebooks, records vs mp3s, phones vs mirrorless vs slrs, film vs digital, etc). Too many choices and little room for profit margins.

It's a challenge. I've never been able to try a Pentax in person since I've been into dSLRs. I had to go by online reviews and a gut instinct and this community (and my own economic situation at the time). Only once have I seen a Pentax camera on the shelf at a retailer, and the retailer tried to steer me clear. I never understood why since it was on their shelf and any purchase would clear a space, but the broader need to sell lenses with it probably had a factor. Overall, it's just a big uggh.

A last digression, I am a tall guy. Since the internet shopping exploded for clothing retailers, I've not been able to try a piece of clothing on in person. B&M's won't carry my size (shoes, pants, shirts) any more. I'm told to buy online and then have to deal with the whole shipping and return complication of the internet when things don't fit. I mostly despise the current state of business even though I am stuck in it.

[tim60]

Another factor I have noticed is geography.


In Australia if you wanted to set up a chain of B&M shops with 90% of the national population within 2 or 2.5 hours commute you could probably do it with about 12 or 15 stores. Not too big an investment to have samples of your range in stock, at least as display copies, and maybe a NIB to sell.


When I came to England, and it would be true in US too, the population is so distributed at relatively low density, that to get shops within the same commute time of 90% of the population would take many times as many shops - result - much more investment and a smaller market population for each store. BTW: travel time for distance is quite high here n UK - 50 miles not on a motorway/freeway is an hour or more, maybe even 1.5 hours. An that does not account for the commute delays of navigating the town where the shop is, finding a place to put the car and getting into the shop.

[Kobie]

Kobie, can you confirm that your buddy purchased Pentax products? I know you can negotiate to some extent on other brands-Nikon, Canon, but I have always hit a wall with Pentax.

Yes they were Pentax Products. He had a looooong discussion with them regarding how to purchase because they'd have to order everything in but then if it didn't suit him, would he have to pay a restocking fee etc. The answer was no. They just don't keep in store stock. Then when the price came up (no tag on the product) my buddy mentioned that it's cheaper at BH Photo and Adorama. Then they "Gave" him the real UN advertised price, he looked it up online and BH was cheapest so they matched that and gave the extra 10%. My buddy then asked about Amazon, and they said Amazon is considered a retailer so yes, they will beat Amazon prices by 10% as well. So when he got home, he called every close-ish Henry's to see what they'd say, and they all confirmed the same thing.

[texandrews]

Another factor I have noticed is geography.


In Australia if you wanted to set up a chain of B&M shops with 90% of the national population within 2 or 2.5 hours commute you could probably do it with about 12 or 15 stores. Not too big an investment to have samples of your range in stock, at least as display copies, and maybe a NIB to sell.


When I came to England, and it would be true in US too, the population is so distributed at relatively low density, that to get shops within the same commute time of 90% of the population would take many times as many shops - result - much more investment and a smaller market population for each store. BTW: travel time for distance is quite high here n UK - 50 miles not on a motorway/freeway is an hour or more, maybe even 1.5 hours. An that does not account for the commute delays of navigating the town where the shop is, finding a place to put the car and getting into the shop.

These are good observations. It may account for why the Canadian Pentax rep was better than the U.S. ones in 2014, when the Z came out.

Somehow, I feel like there are enough problems all around, online and B&M, and there are pluses to both sides. Perhaps we just haven't found the synergy yet. Online retailing is still relatively young. Department stores certainly had their problems long before online retailing, and many went under or severely contracted. But they have experienced some selective comebacks.

[monochrome]

National retail consolidation started before chain stores. In the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s the big New York camera stores had a catalog business that had similar price advantages over local stores to what they offer today on the internet.

Those were the days that L.L. Bean, Orvis, Filson, Vermont Country Store and Lands End developed the catalog shopping model. It isn’t well known that Lands End introduced the idea of calling an 800 number TOLL FREE to place an order rather than filling out an order form and sending it in. (An 800 number is really placing an automated Collect Call, if you know what that is). People got a B&H catalog decades ago and they still get one today.

In effect we owe the idea of Amazon immediate ordering to Gary Comer, who grew his father’s yachting supply company (Lands End) into the clothing behemoth. Computers and the internet merely speeded up the response time. A website is just an electronic catalog with a super fast Appendix search.

Interesting thread.

This issues discussed are really much wider than Pentax or even cameras. Internet retail can out compete B&M shopping because they don't need to pay for retail workers, they don't need to pay a lease on a physical space, and so on. Who's to blame for this, well the responsibility lies all over the place and is probably rooted back with the suburbanization of everything.

Where I grew up, it was the big chain B&M shopping that put all the local smalltown retailers out of business. Now the internet is putting those big chain B&M's out of business. I am sure there will continue to be an evolution, although I am not sure exactly how, and it will probably depend on the type of product and companies.

For cameras, there certainly would have to be a benefit to allowing people to get their hands on them, but the camera industry is reeling a bit when you consider the role phones play. This is part of why all the companies are in a struggle. There is a retail dilemma brewing because of the challenge of some people wanting physical stores but not sufficiently (or economically enough) to make it work. And there is other nostalgia factors that make all business struggle (books vs ebooks, records vs mp3s, phones vs mirrorless vs slrs, film vs digital, etc). Too many choices and little room for profit margins.

It's a challenge. I've never been able to try a Pentax in person since I've been into dSLRs. I had to go by online reviews and a gut instinct and this community (and my own economic situation at the time). Only once have I seen a Pentax camera on the shelf at a retailer, and the retailer tried to steer me clear. I never understood why since it was on their shelf and any purchase would clear a space, but the broader need to sell lenses with it probably had a factor. Overall, it's just a big uggh.

A last digression, I am a tall guy. Since the internet shopping exploded for clothing retailers, I've not been able to try a piece of clothing on in person. B&M's won't carry my size (shoes, pants, shirts) any more. I'm told to buy online and then have to deal with the whole shipping and return complication of the internet when things don't fit. I mostly despise the current state of business even though I am stuck in it.

[Racer X 69]

National retail consolidation started before chain stores. In the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s the big New York camera stores had a catalog business that had similar price advantages over local stores to what they offer today on the internet.

Those were the days that L.L. Bean, Orvis, Filson, Vermont Country Store and Lands End developed the catalog shopping model. It isn’t well known that Lands End introduced the idea of calling an 800 number TOLL FREE to place an order rather than filling out an order form and sending it in. (An 800 number is really placing an automated Collect Call, if you know what that is). People got a B&H catalog decades ago and they still get one today.

In effect we owe the idea of Amazon immediate ordering to Gary Comer, who grew his father’s yachting supply company (Lands End) into the clothing behemoth. Computers and the internet merely speeded up the response time. A website is just an electronic catalog with a super fast Appendix search.

Don’t leave out Sears Roebuck and Company, then JC Penney, and Montgomery Wards.

Sears started with mail order out of a catalog in the late 1800’s.

Montgomery Wards began catalog sales in 1872.

JC Penney opened the first store in Kemmerer, Wyoming, in 1902, and that store is still operating, although the hours are limited, and it is closed on Sunday.

[monochrome]

Don’t leave out Sears Roebuck and Company, then JC Penney, and Montgomery Wards.

Sears started with mail order out of a catalog in the late 1800’s.

Montgomery Wards began catalog sales in 1872.

JC Penney opened the first store in Kemmerer, Wyoming, in 1902, and that store is still operating, although the hours are limited, and it is closed on Sunday.

Correctamundo. I was tying to keep my citation in at least the memory of members - or those of parents for the younger group. Essentially the modern catalog.

[Tashbir]

Tomorrow morning I'm going to buy a Pentax macro lens. It's my first purchase for many years in a retail (camera) store that also sells Pentax (the best of two in the neighborhood). I've bought all my digital camera bodies and lenses from online so far. I tried to buy a camera case from the retail once, but I finally got it 50% cheaper from Amazon. Let see how it goes. I love to buy old books from the antiquarian bookstores and I would like to feel the same feeling tomorrow at the camera store.