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05-26-2019, 12:28 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by amarsh1958 Quote
<<The picture quality has reached a point that only specialty uses need better or different.>>
This is so true and an argument frequently set aside or perhaps not realised or appreciated because the focus is mostly on resolution at pixel peeping level. Realism seems to be ignored.

05-26-2019, 02:54 AM - 2 Likes   #17
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The problem with camera shipments as a tale of the market is that it only tells what is being produced, not what is being used. I still do see a vast predominance of APS-C SLRs when I see folks taking photos with anything other than their cell phones. Is that what is being pushed right now? Of course not. What Canon and Nikon and Sony want to sell you is full frame mirrorless, hoping beyond hope that not only will you buy a full frame mirrorless, but also buy a whole raft of their (over priced) mirrorless lenses to go with it. And you know what? Customers are saying, "Nope, my SLR from 2014 works fine. I'll keep using it till it breaks and then I'll get another APS-C SLR."

As far as Pentax goes, they can weather the market down turn a lot more easily than a company like Nikon and are probably in decent shape. Every camera they have released has sold well from what I can tell, even the disparaged KP. It is just easy for the Northups to see the slow release of gear as a sign of weakness when it is actually a sign of good things to come (significant improvements in a number of areas) and overall wisdom in the market. When I read the interview with Pentax executives I didn't see them saying that a vast majority of mirrorless users were going to flee back to SLRs, I saw them saying that some people would not like mirrorless cameras for whatever reason and with every other maker focused on that tech, this was an opportunity for them in an area of strength. That's all.
05-26-2019, 03:06 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by vdubois Quote
Realism seems to be ignored.
If the reviews would be realistic, the sales would have been less pumped up, but the market would be more healthy right now.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-26-2019 at 03:19 AM.
05-26-2019, 04:29 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is just easy for the Northups to see the slow release of gear as a sign of weakness when it is actually a sign of good things to come
Absolutely - on their channel, at least, they see things from the point of view of commentators who need to be constantly fed with new things to comment on, not as photographers who use a camera as a means to an end where constant change is actually bad for your picture taking.


Last edited by ffking; 05-26-2019 at 06:06 AM.
05-26-2019, 04:40 AM - 3 Likes   #20
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Saw that video last night, against better judgement, and as so often before came away with a sense of having wasted precious lifetime. Even took the time to post a comment.

Although they seem to be better actual photographers than their non-tubing colleague Ken Rockwell, their conclusions tend to be based on a not dissimilar mix of anecdotal evidence, sloppy research, and half-understood science. Then they are sugar-coated with that oh-so-laid-back, breakfast-TV presentation style, routinely interrupted twice (!) by their own SquareSpace commercials, and passed off as solid wisdom.

While most of us will probably be readily able to sift the few nuggets their videos contain from the myths, half-truths, and outright BS, I remain genuinely concerned about the masses out there swallowing the noise they are generating without much regard for the true signal. As for them talking about the Pentax brand, I have reached the point where it gives me a sense of faint nausea whenever they do it, and I don't even consider myself a diehard fanboy, more as a longtime user who has come to appreciate the capabilities and quality of their photographic tools. It is quite telling that Tony not once in the whole video addresses the reasoning behind what the Ricoh executive suggested in the IR interview he alludes to.

Last edited by Madaboutpix; 05-26-2019 at 04:47 AM. Reason: typo corrected
05-26-2019, 05:32 AM   #21
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I watched that video and thought it was quite obvious it was just an opinion piece.

To be fair he said that the Pentax mount wouldn't last another 5 years and gave his reasons for it - even if we don't agree with him it's not an outrageous opinion. Personally I think it's more likely it will be sold on again, but that's just my opinion.

He was wrong when he said Pentax had already ditched it but again, to someone that doesn't use Pentax it's an easy conclusion to come to when you see the lack of new glass, bodies and investment.
05-26-2019, 05:38 AM   #22
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They are catering to subscribers who like to hear about the 'demise of Pentax'
05-26-2019, 06:24 AM - 3 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
They are catering to subscribers who like to hear about the 'demise of Pentax'
If Pentax releases a new APSc body with some groundbreaking feature that wins the Camera Grand Prix Award like the K10D did DPR will give it an 89 Silver score and Tony (having not received a free one) will say its too little too late.

05-26-2019, 06:42 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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I can't take seriously any commentator who peddles the demise of any camera company as relentlessly as TN now does with Pentax as a someone who cares about photography other than as a means of making a living - as Mike (BigMackCam) says earlier in this thread, many people who don't know better will be put off trying Pentax as a brand, so you potentially get a self-fulfilling prophesy just to prove yourself right. If you care about photography, you will want to encourage as much diversity and competition (of ideas and options) as possible, not try to push companies under.
05-26-2019, 06:49 AM   #25
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Recently I noticed Tiffen has discontinued stocking accessory inserts for traditional Domke canvas shoulder bags and sometimes the traditional bags are available at Amazon Warehouse for less than 35% of List price. I guess the change in the camera market is affecting downstream products as well as the obvious upstream products.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-26-2019 at 01:45 PM.
05-26-2019, 12:30 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Oh great!!! Another round of Gloom and Doom.
...but which one is Tony and which Chelsea?
05-26-2019, 08:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
...but which one is Tony and which Chelsea?
Obviously she is Gloom
05-27-2019, 01:42 PM   #28
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M43 is doomed.


Along with L mount and that brand thats always been Doomed!
05-27-2019, 04:05 PM   #29
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Then again m42 is selling like hot cakes
05-27-2019, 04:13 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The problem with camera shipments as a tale of the market is that it only tells what is being produced, not what is being used. I still do see a vast predominance of APS-C SLRs when I see folks taking photos with anything other than their cell phones. Is that what is being pushed right now? Of course not. What Canon and Nikon and Sony want to sell you is full frame mirrorless, hoping beyond hope that not only will you buy a full frame mirrorless, but also buy a whole raft of their (over priced) mirrorless lenses to go with it. And you know what? Customers are saying, "Nope, my SLR from 2014 works fine. I'll keep using it till it breaks and then I'll get another APS-C SLR."

As far as Pentax goes, they can weather the market down turn a lot more easily than a company like Nikon and are probably in decent shape. Every camera they have released has sold well from what I can tell, even the disparaged KP. It is just easy for the Northups to see the slow release of gear as a sign of weakness when it is actually a sign of good things to come (significant improvements in a number of areas) and overall wisdom in the market. When I read the interview with Pentax executives I didn't see them saying that a vast majority of mirrorless users were going to flee back to SLRs, I saw them saying that some people would not like mirrorless cameras for whatever reason and with every other maker focused on that tech, this was an opportunity for them in an area of strength. That's all.
That's about the most balanced and realistic view I've read, clearly and succinctly observed, on both the enthusiast-level format and DSLR-vs-mirrorless wars respectively. Consumers - and manufacturers - will try to make more of both issues, but what you've stated really is all it boils down to, IMHO. Very well said.
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