Fullframe camera is for whom?

Unregistered User · 06-22-2019, 11:33 AM

Look at it another way. Your KP has 24 MP. If your K-1 turns to crop then you get 16 MP. It means that a K-1 actually is not better than your 24 MP Pentax. If the sensor gets bigger you need more pixels to get comparable results, in the case of a K-1 (24X36)/(21.7X15.7)= 2,53X more pixels. Take the 36MP of the K1 divide it by 2,53 and you end up with 14 MP, so the size of the pixel is larger than that of you KP. So it is comparable to a Pentax K7 which has 14 MP. Therefor the APS-C of the K-1 is not better than that of the K-5 etc. in terms of pixels. But the K-1 has a more modern processors than the K-5 or newer Pentax APS-C camera’s which can make a difference. I prefer a K-3(II) or a KP over the K-1, which is pricy, bulky, needs FF lenses. Stick with what you have got. Right now the K-1 is a step back. I would not buy a K-1, not even for $600 if I have a KP or, in my case, a K-3II. Remember, the only thing that counts is that the pictures you make, make you feel proud. Most of the time you do not see if the beauty of the picture is the result of a better dynamic range, higher resolution or a higher ISO performance (or any of the other mentioned qualities by the developer, they are just imaginative and used to sell the camera), they are just the backstage facilities, so to speak. It is you that is important in taking the picture, the only way to make a beautiful picture is that you, the person behind the camera sees something worth making a picture of and capture the atmosphere. Therefor you need some techniques and (some) technical knowledge of your camera. So it is a combination of the photographer, his or hers equipment and the ability to record what is worth recording for posterity. And to conclude, if the developer of the camera states that a FF has better resolution, dynamic range etc., he usually forgets to state compared to which camera.

**monochrome** · 06-22-2019, 12:33 PM

^^ If all you value is sharpness at 100% magnification or cropping ability for macro or long lenses then maybe a KP or K-3 is a preferable camera. K-1 gathers more light, is less noisy, has more dynamic range and renders a scene quite differently than 24MP APSc because it has 50% more pixels - and they are larger, deeper photo-receptors. Especially for portraits and early morning / early evening I much prefer the images my K-1 delivers over those my KP delivers (and K-3 did).

They’re both fine cameras, each with its optimal uses.

# I should note I have a large collection of manual K-mount lenses and several F and FA lenses. I like to use them on a 24x36 sensor.

ZombieArmy · 06-22-2019, 02:41 PM

Fullframe isn't for me that's for sure. I love the KP and the lens options I have. My next step moving forward would be to a Pentax 6x7, not a minor progression that you'd have to argue whether it makes a difference.

VSTAR · 06-22-2019, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by AfterPentax

Look at it another way. Your KP has 24 MP. If your K-1 turns to crop then you get 16 MP. It means that a K-1 actually is not better than your 24 MP Pentax. If the sensor gets bigger you need more pixels to get comparable results, in the case of a K-1 (24X36)/(21.7X15.7)= 2,53X more pixels. Take the 36MP of the K1 divide it by 2,53 and you end up with 14 MP, so the size of the pixel is larger than that of you KP. So it is comparable to a Pentax K7 which has 14 MP. Therefor the APS-C of the K-1 is not better than that of the K-5 etc. in terms of pixels.

If you are buying a k-1 to primarily use in crop mode then you purchased it for the wrong reason. You purchase an FF camera in order to use in FF sensor mode and to be used with FF lenses. Otherwise you would indeed purchase a non-FF camera. Apples and oranges. It would be like buying a Chrysler car with a Hemi engine that can also be run in 4 cylinder mode. You buy it to run as a V8 with an option to run as a V4 if you need to, not the other way around.

normhead · 06-23-2019, 06:40 AM

My FF vs APS-c poll is up, please participate.
Full frame or APS-c, you be the judge. - PentaxForums.com

Bui · 06-27-2019, 01:36 PM

Great discussion from my initial amateur question :-) finally the K1 will not come, due to my recent purchase of the 16-85, the need to have my 15mm ltd repaired, and mostly I think I’m not ready yet for Fullframe. I will review the need/want next year and/or when the next great K1 deal comes.

Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective?

normhead · 06-27-2019, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Bui

Great discussion from my initial amateur question :-) finally the K1 will not come, due to my recent purchase of the 16-85, the need to repaired my 15mm ltd, and mostly I think I’m not ready yet for Fullframe. I will review the need/want next year and/or when the next great K1 deal comes.

Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective?

That's why I don't. Because there is usually useable image outside the crop circle, and in some cases, cropping to 16:9, I can use the full width of the K-1 sensor because vignetting is confined to the top and bottom corners, so I get a full 7300 pixels wide, instead of 6000.

VSTAR · 06-28-2019, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Bui

Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective?

You use crop mode if your lens will not give a full frame photo...ie you use an aps type lens in FF camera and it results in vignetting, then you can use the crop setting on your camera...and yes you can also do it manually by software editing. And on some cameras, going to lower resolution allows more photos before buffer filled up...ie taking sports pictures.

06-22-2019, 11:33 AM	#46
Unregistered User Guest	Look at it another way! Look at it another way. Your KP has 24 MP. If your K-1 turns to crop then you get 16 MP. It means that a K-1 actually is not better than your 24 MP Pentax. If the sensor gets bigger you need more pixels to get comparable results, in the case of a K-1 (24X36)/(21.7X15.7)= 2,53X more pixels. Take the 36MP of the K1 divide it by 2,53 and you end up with 14 MP, so the size of the pixel is larger than that of you KP. So it is comparable to a Pentax K7 which has 14 MP. Therefor the APS-C of the K-1 is not better than that of the K-5 etc. in terms of pixels. But the K-1 has a more modern processors than the K-5 or newer Pentax APS-C camera’s which can make a difference. I prefer a K-3(II) or a KP over the K-1, which is pricy, bulky, needs FF lenses. Stick with what you have got. Right now the K-1 is a step back. I would not buy a K-1, not even for $600 if I have a KP or, in my case, a K-3II. Remember, the only thing that counts is that the pictures you make, make you feel proud. Most of the time you do not see if the beauty of the picture is the result of a better dynamic range, higher resolution or a higher ISO performance (or any of the other mentioned qualities by the developer, they are just imaginative and used to sell the camera), they are just the backstage facilities, so to speak. It is you that is important in taking the picture, the only way to make a beautiful picture is that you, the person behind the camera sees something worth making a picture of and capture the atmosphere. Therefor you need some techniques and (some) technical knowledge of your camera. So it is a combination of the photographer, his or hers equipment and the ability to record what is worth recording for posterity. And to conclude, if the developer of the camera states that a FF has better resolution, dynamic range etc., he usually forgets to state compared to which camera.

06-22-2019, 12:33 PM	#47
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	^^ If all you value is sharpness at 100% magnification or cropping ability for macro or long lenses then maybe a KP or K-3 is a preferable camera. K-1 gathers more light, is less noisy, has more dynamic range and renders a scene quite differently than 24MP APSc because it has 50% more pixels - and they are larger, deeper photo-receptors. Especially for portraits and early morning / early evening I much prefer the images my K-1 delivers over those my KP delivers (and K-3 did). They’re both fine cameras, each with its optimal uses. # I should note I have a large collection of manual K-mount lenses and several F and FA lenses. I like to use them on a 24x36 sensor. Last edited by monochrome; 06-23-2019 at 07:09 AM.

06-27-2019, 01:36 PM	#51
Bui Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 316 Original Poster	Fullframe camera is for whom? Great discussion from my initial amateur question :-) finally the K1 will not come, due to my recent purchase of the 16-85, the need to have my 15mm ltd repaired, and mostly I think I’m not ready yet for Fullframe. I will review the need/want next year and/or when the next great K1 deal comes. Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective? Last edited by Bui; 06-27-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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06-22-2019, 02:41 PM	#48
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Fullframe isn't for me that's for sure. I love the KP and the lens options I have. My next step moving forward would be to a Pentax 6x7, not a minor progression that you'd have to argue whether it makes a difference.

06-22-2019, 07:30 PM	#49
VSTAR Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 390	Originally posted by AfterPentax Look at it another way. Your KP has 24 MP. If your K-1 turns to crop then you get 16 MP. It means that a K-1 actually is not better than your 24 MP Pentax. If the sensor gets bigger you need more pixels to get comparable results, in the case of a K-1 (24X36)/(21.7X15.7)= 2,53X more pixels. Take the 36MP of the K1 divide it by 2,53 and you end up with 14 MP, so the size of the pixel is larger than that of you KP. So it is comparable to a Pentax K7 which has 14 MP. Therefor the APS-C of the K-1 is not better than that of the K-5 etc. in terms of pixels. If you are buying a k-1 to primarily use in crop mode then you purchased it for the wrong reason. You purchase an FF camera in order to use in FF sensor mode and to be used with FF lenses. Otherwise you would indeed purchase a non-FF camera. Apples and oranges. It would be like buying a Chrysler car with a Hemi engine that can also be run in 4 cylinder mode. You buy it to run as a V8 with an option to run as a V4 if you need to, not the other way around.

06-23-2019, 06:40 AM	#50
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	My FF vs APS-c poll is up, please participate. Full frame or APS-c, you be the judge. - PentaxForums.com

06-27-2019, 01:41 PM	#52
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Bui Great discussion from my initial amateur question :-) finally the K1 will not come, due to my recent purchase of the 16-85, the need to repaired my 15mm ltd, and mostly I think I’m not ready yet for Fullframe. I will review the need/want next year and/or when the next great K1 deal comes. Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective? That's why I don't. Because there is usually useable image outside the crop circle, and in some cases, cropping to 16:9, I can use the full width of the K-1 sensor because vignetting is confined to the top and bottom corners, so I get a full 7300 pixels wide, instead of 6000.

06-28-2019, 06:51 AM	#53
VSTAR Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 390	Originally posted by Bui Anyway, still curious to know, and forgive me if the answer is obvious: why the need to use crop mode in FF while you can crop the FF image to have the same perspective? You use crop mode if your lens will not give a full frame photo...ie you use an aps type lens in FF camera and it results in vignetting, then you can use the crop setting on your camera...and yes you can also do it manually by software editing. And on some cameras, going to lower resolution allows more photos before buffer filled up...ie taking sports pictures.