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08-27-2019, 07:12 AM   #1
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Reflex kickstarter vaporware gets a Mk II

The original camera had to be redesigned from the ground up. Now they are promising pre-production samples this fall.

New version of Reflex SLR entering pre-production - Kosmo Foto

Someone was practically begging Cosina to put the Bessaflex back into production the other day on Facebook, might have been Kosmo...


Last edited by boriscleto; 08-27-2019 at 07:22 AM.
08-27-2019, 08:31 AM   #2
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I wonder if the Mk II has the unique reverse DOF button for focusing?


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08-27-2019, 10:36 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
The original camera had to be redesigned from the ground up. Now they are promising pre-production samples this fall.

New version of Reflex SLR entering pre-production - Kosmo Foto

Someone was practically begging Cosina to put the Bessaflex back into production the other day on Facebook, might have been Kosmo...
The interchangeable film backs and lens mounts, features of dubious value, doomed this project from the get-go, IMO.
08-27-2019, 10:45 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
The interchangeable film backs and lens mounts, features of dubious value, doomed this project from the get-go, IMO.
And underestimating what it takes to actually move from a 3-d printed semi-functional prototype to actual production of a fully working product.

08-27-2019, 10:55 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
And underestimating what it takes to actually move from a 3-d printed semi-functional prototype to actual production of a fully working product.
We will see how things go using a shutter of their own design/manufacture.


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08-27-2019, 10:59 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
And underestimating what it takes to actually move from a 3-d printed semi-functional prototype to actual production of a fully working product.
Assuming the folks behind it had good intentions -- and we know what road is paved with those.
08-27-2019, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
Assuming the folks behind it had good intentions -- and we know what road is paved with those.
Somewhere on the kickstarter page they have like half a dozen other vaporware products listed as future projects. The interesting one was the desktop film developer that would be able to handle C-41, E-6, and B&W emulsions...Seemed rather like Theranos...

The 40mm lens was supposed to be ready. I don't see why they wouldn't release it to fund camera produciton...
08-28-2019, 06:29 AM - 1 Like   #8
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What caught my eye was the term, "vaporware". I knew the guy who invented that term. Early in 1980, I went to work for a company called, "Tymshare", which operated a network of DEC PDP 8's and 10's, which they rented out to commercial and governmental customers on the basis of memory, storage, and cpu cycles used. No one had what we think of today as "personal computers" at that time, the Apple II had just been invented, and if you wanted to use a computer, you had to pay someone who owned one (or pay multi-millions for your own).

I was a programmer, developing tracking and reporting systems using a hierarchical database manager called, "Focus". The systems I developed were for the use of the customers, and what they cost to develop was never billed directly. The company got paid when the customers used the software, which of course took up lots of storage, memory, and cpu cycles.

So this guy, Dan Miller (if I recall correctly), was the company's premier top salesman. I asked him one day why he was better than all the other sales staff. He said, "It's not because I'm a good salesman, it's because I'm selling the best possible product: vaporware." He went on to explain that "vaporware" isn't "software", nor is it "hardware" ("firmware hadn't been invented yet). He said, "I tell the customer, 'It's free, it's easy, and it'll only take a week. And, besides, we already have the systems, all we need to do is customize them for you.' But all that is just smoke in the air - the reality is, I find out what they need, I sell it to them, and then I come back here and tell you what I want and you build it for me. It's all just vapor when I sell it, so I call it 'vaporware."

That company went out of business when the State of New Jersey bought vaporware that was supposed to manage their "entitlements" programs. It turned out that what they'd been sold couldn't have been produced with the tools available in a reasonable amount of time. The state sued and Tymshare became vapor and blew away.

08-28-2019, 06:48 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
What caught my eye was the term, "vaporware". I knew the guy who invented that term. Early in 1980, I went to work for a company called, "Tymshare", which operated a network of DEC PDP 8's and 10's, which they rented out to commercial and governmental customers on the basis of memory, storage, and cpu cycles used. No one had what we think of today as "personal computers" at that time, the Apple II had just been invented, and if you wanted to use a computer, you had to pay someone who owned one (or pay multi-millions for your own).

I was a programmer, developing tracking and reporting systems using a hierarchical database manager called, "Focus". The systems I developed were for the use of the customers, and what they cost to develop was never billed directly. The company got paid when the customers used the software, which of course took up lots of storage, memory, and cpu cycles.

So this guy, Dan Miller (if I recall correctly), was the company's premier top salesman. I asked him one day why he was better than all the other sales staff. He said, "It's not because I'm a good salesman, it's because I'm selling the best possible product: vaporware." He went on to explain that "vaporware" isn't "software", nor is it "hardware" ("firmware hadn't been invented yet). He said, "I tell the customer, 'It's free, it's easy, and it'll only take a week. And, besides, we already have the systems, all we need to do is customize them for you.' But all that is just smoke in the air - the reality is, I find out what they need, I sell it to them, and then I come back here and tell you what I want and you build it for me. It's all just vapor when I sell it, so I call it 'vaporware."

That company went out of business when the State of New Jersey bought vaporware that was supposed to manage their "entitlements" programs. It turned out that what they'd been sold couldn't have been produced with the tools available in a reasonable amount of time. The state sued and Tymshare became vapor and blew away.
So he is upfront with the customer that the software is not yet written. I have always heard the term in reference to a salesman saying they HAVE the software when they don't.
08-28-2019, 08:22 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack002 Quote
So he is upfront with the customer that the software is not yet written. I have always heard the term in reference to a salesman saying they HAVE the software when they don't.
Ah, but no! That was what he told ME. What he told the customer was, "It's free, it's easy, and it'll only take a week."; all false statements. "Vaporware" as a descriptive term was an inside joke within the company.

Another factor that led to the company's demise was the fact that the entire non-technical workforce went to a bar in the basement of the building on Wilson Blvd. in Rosslyn, Va. (opposite side of the Potomac from Wash. DC) for lunch every day and stayed for drinks until about eight or nine o'clock in the evening. After that, they went to Georgetown across Key Bridge to party. They generally staggered into work at about 10 a.m. Sexual abuse of female staff was considered normal and healthy workplace "fun".
08-28-2019, 09:11 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
and if you wanted to use a computer, you had to pay someone who owned one
And the sales guys have pulled it off once again, convincing everyone to go back to this model with the cure all elixir called "cloud" (which generically I can't stand). I started cutting my teeth in the IT world about the same time you were doing this, working for one of the many Beltway Bandits in the area. Happy to be out of that now.
08-29-2019, 11:05 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
And the sales guys have pulled it off once again, convincing everyone to go back to this model with the cure all elixir called "cloud" (which generically I can't stand). I started cutting my teeth in the IT world about the same time you were doing this, working for one of the many Beltway Bandits in the area. Happy to be out of that now.
I work in IT, we have just paired with Amazon and cloud is the fix to everything tech right now! I hope they're right.
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