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09-12-2019, 03:14 PM   #16
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For wildlife shooting the Sony A9 silent shooting would be great. I’ve been out all camoed up to photograph foxes and have them come within 20 yards and they have no clue I’m there, as soon as I started shooting they hear it and move away.

For me that is the only thing about mirrorless I’m interested in.

09-12-2019, 03:15 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
This forum is nothing compared to the hellscape that is youtube. DPR/Jared/Others are borderline toxic when it comes to DSLRs.

I remember a small snippet I saw of Jared doing a piece on the 90d and M6 Mark 2 and he, no joke, said he didn't want to use the screen on the back of the 90d for a scene where it would have been advantageous because he thought it didn't look pro. That is just sickening to me. Mirrorless users are the ones who really need to get a grip on reasons for both existing.
How you view-find when shooting doesn't define your status as a professional or amateur.

I remember at Photokina 2018 a speaker on stage talking how she got successful with her portrait photography business and having a studio in downtown London UK. She also gave a demo shoot. To my surprise she used the back screen of her camera as the viewfinder – as if it was a smart phone. Yes it looked like a tourist shooting some snapshots. But the results were excellent just like she directed the set. She knew precisely what she was doing. That's what makes it professional – but not whether you're using the back screen or not.

Last edited by sbh; 09-12-2019 at 03:22 PM.
09-12-2019, 03:55 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
For wildlife shooting the Sony A9 silent shooting would be great. I’ve been out all camoed up to photograph foxes and have them come within 20 yards and they have no clue I’m there, as soon as I started shooting they hear it and move away.

For me that is the only thing about mirrorless I’m interested in.
I think you need shutter-less as much as you need mirror-less
09-12-2019, 04:04 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
What is the actual benefit of mirrorless?

For me, it's the ability to adapt a large number of manual focus lenses, and have an enlarged image in the viewfinder for precise manual focusing. That's it.
If I shot only auto focus K mount lenses, I'd have no interest in mirrorless.

After I started using my Sony A7ii, for the first time in my life I experienced eyestrain. And the viewfinder lag can make certain types of shooting an adventure.
The EVF is (usually) an effective means to an end, but an OVF is actually enjoyable to use. For me.


Last edited by .a.t.; 09-12-2019 at 04:28 PM. Reason: clarity
09-12-2019, 04:30 PM - 2 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Rather than repeat myself, I might ask you to search my posts containing "EVF". Shooting both DSLR with OVF and SLT / mirrorless cameras with EVF, and using the latter to shoot with everything from long flange distance SLR glass (including some BIG lenses) to short flange distance rangefinder glass, I'd like to think I have a pretty balanced opinion on at least the viewfinder and handling aspects.

In the same way that other forums call out Pentax as the ugly step-child, it seems mirrorless cameras with EVFs are given the same treatment here. Perhaps it's because folks are tired of hearing how Pentax should offer mirrorless instead of, or in addition to, DSLRs or get left behind. I get that.

In any case, it's tiring hearing the same polar extreme opinions time and time again regarding DSLRs and OVFs, mirrorless and EVFs. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, added to which folks have their individual preferences. The only thing I can't fathom is why everyone can't just accept there's room for both...
And yet here we are, with Pentaxforums' own "Why I hate mirrorless" thread, created by the OP under the pretense of "What is the actual benefit of mirrorless?"
09-12-2019, 04:41 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
"Why I hate mirrorless" thread, created by the OP under the pretense of "What is the actual benefit of mirrorless?"
No - to be fair, the OP uses a K-01 (as I do also - and it is certainly mirrorless). Of course, since the K-01 has K-mount registration distance, some of the benefits of form factor which might be found in other mirrorless cameras may not be present. I believe the new L mount has a registration distance of about 20mm - not mirror to worry about and possibly smaller wide angle lenses. The question has been discussed elsewhere, but I don't think it was a rant against mirrorless.
09-12-2019, 04:48 PM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
And yet here we are, with Pentaxforums' own "Why I hate mirrorless" thread, created by the OP under the pretense of "What is the actual benefit of mirrorless?"
Kinda thinking the same thing,


But just to fall into the trap,

I like the size, feel and dont need a very big camera bag. Fit great on my dual purpose bike and on hikes. My Oly EM10 with 12-32 is the same size as my QS1 and fits nice in my pocket.
The EVF is nice for and I have no trouble wearing glasses. With adapter I can use my Pentax glass.

09-12-2019, 05:03 PM - 3 Likes   #23
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Those can see the value of Mirrorless will buy or switch to Mirrorless. The same for the DSLR.

Personally, I don’t think Mirrorless is a hype. I can see a lot of good things I wish I have it on my K3 and many Mirrorless users that I meet in person do have a really good portfolio. The same also applies to DSLR users regardless of brands. I admit that I don’t really care much about what other people use. I will use whatever I want to use anyway. It is my money not because it is Pentax, Sony, Mirrorless, DSLR, phone, brush & canvas or whatever. To me, it is good seeing more and more people enjoy taking a photo.
09-12-2019, 05:04 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
No - to be fair, the OP uses a K-01 (as I do also - and it is certainly mirrorless). Of course, since the K-01 has K-mount registration distance, some of the benefits of form factor which might be found in other mirrorless cameras may not be present. I believe the new L mount has a registration distance of about 20mm - not mirror to worry about and possibly smaller wide angle lenses. The question has been discussed elsewhere, but I don't think it was a rant against mirrorless.
Yeah, I know he has a K-01, but the tone of the OP is clearly negative. Also, he skipped over the more thoughtful replies (including mine, which I have since deleted) and responded to a post that was not in favor of mirrorless.

And with the usual anti-mirrorless crowd pouring in, there actually is no room in this thread for a proper discussion of the titular question.

Anyway, I'm going to stay out of this thread, as it's disingenuous.

I'm also a K-01 user - the camera so nice I bought it twice! Same with the Q7.
09-12-2019, 05:35 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
. . . the tone of the OP is clearly negative. Also, he skipped over the more thoughtful replies (including mine, which I have since deleted) and responded to a post that was not in favor of mirrorless.

And with the usual anti-mirrorless crowd pouring in, there actually is no room in this thread for a proper discussion of the titular question.
. . .

You'd be doing us a favor if you'd (dispassionately) share your informed opinions. I'm already a mirrorless user, but I'd be happy to learn something new.

And I suspect there might be at least one or two others here who feel the same way.
09-12-2019, 05:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Yeah, I know he has a K-01, but the tone of the OP is clearly negative. Also, he skipped over the more thoughtful replies (including mine, which I have since deleted) and responded to a post that was not in favor of mirrorless.

And with the usual anti-mirrorless crowd pouring in, there actually is no room in this thread for a proper discussion of the titular question.
I suppose my reply could be taken as anti-mirrorless but I don't think I am anti-mirrorless so much as not sold on the hype. But also, not made of money, therefore I would need a compelling reason to switch. I just don't think it's there for my wants/needs. If I were buying in with no previous gear it would be a different story, but I have had Pentax DSLRs since 2007 with a K100D.

I think the big advantage to mirrorless may actually be the hype. Every manufacturer is frantically trying to crank out as much mirrorless gear as possible. The the shear number of options available is compelling, even if at the end of the day the cameras aren't better just different. So I could see myself making different choices if I was starting over.
09-12-2019, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #27
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I miss playback with EVF

If you get past the dislike of the EVF experience, it is quite an awesome tool for checking your photos in broad daylight. Coming back from mirrorless to Pentax, that is the one feature I miss the most. I need a big black cloth or something to check my photos on the LCD on a sunny summer day in the desert.

The irony is that none of the mirrorless systems offer 2000 multiple exposures like my K-70... but now that I want to actuate the shutter 2000 times, my K-70 doesn't have a fully-electronic shutter mode... (I don't think I can stop the pointless shutter slaps either)
09-12-2019, 05:59 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
I've been thinking about this a long time, and I can't think of a satisfactory answer.

Influencers and companies alike at this point are basically shouting in your face how "mirrorless is the future of photography, drop your DSLR grandpa!"
But there are no features I could think of that couldn't be delivered on a standard DSLR that a mirrorless does while also gaining the distinct lagfree view of real life.

People can claim how you can check exposure and the peaking is awesome, and how Eye AF literally paid for my child's tuition or something miraculous.
But frankly cameras have been doing stuff like this for years before EVFs were even passable, and honestly they still don't quite match up.

Especially if something like a hybrid viewfinder comes into play at some point, what would the excuse for a mirrorless system be then? It's smaller?
Yah smaller until you put the glass on it, then you get an unbalanced mess. Like sticking a giant telephoto on a film camera, you know how fun that is.

People are so over the top about mirrorless it's almost suspicious, like there's some money changing hands just to sell it to consumers.

And just to put it out there, I'm someone in their mid 20s. I love tech, and a big part of my life is working on electronics and learning about the latest and greatest. I'm not someone stuck in their ways or anything.
Seriously?
09-12-2019, 06:09 PM - 7 Likes   #29
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I have four MILCs - I was an early adopter. So I have as many as I do DSLRs.

I think 'meh', after all these years. For people who haven't shot mirrorless a long time, there might be a novelty factor. The new girl in the office is getting their interest, but why is there an obligation to chase her?

Once curiosity's been satisfied, people can get a more balanced view of the phenomenon, and we've had people in this very forum return to DSLRs after buying MILCs or who like me, own both. They're not weird.

DSLRs are still the biggest selling camera type, and last quarter, DSLR sales were stable and mirrorless sales went down despite all the hype, and no one's been able to give me a satisfactory explanation why.

The other weekend I got to use someone's brand new A7R III and the Sony G Master 70-200 f2.8 with 'eye focus' (it's only eye focus when you get close enough, otherwise it's the same as Pentax's face focus). I was using *thousands* of dollars of kit. It was pleasant enough, but after half an hour I handed it back and finished the morning with my K-1.

The cost, size and weight savings of mirrorless are not what people think, especially when the lenses are included, which is the only way to think of these things. The same kind of bag will be needed, and it will feel much the same on your back. An XT3 or GH5 are big bodies, and more expensive than DSLRs.

The recent Oly m43 flagship is as heavy as the K-1, IIRC. I know, it doesn't match the propaganda. But we're seeing *massive* advertising and promotion - buying thumbs up from websites, publications and endorsements from professionals. The spending's not sustainable - Sony profits plunged 73 percent - but there's real desperation from the big camera companies as the market contracts, and Canon reckons it will halve again in the next two years.

Their disappointments are worth studying. The Z6 is arguably inferior to the D850 and the EOS R to the Canon 5D Mk IV they're based on, involved a new mount, and resulted in fewer sales, not more, for those companies. What lessons were meant to be learnt?

Ricoh have said they're following the trends and the first mirrorless Pentax may be Medium Format, Full Frame or APS-C, there are advantages and disadvantages, they haven't decided. A contracting market is not the time to release new products at all, but it will have to happen at some stage, it will be more a case of when the economics make sense for such a little division when the sky's falling on the industry as a whole.

Last edited by clackers; 09-12-2019 at 10:07 PM.
09-12-2019, 06:30 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
I've been thinking about this a long time, and I can't think of a satisfactory answer.
I use both Olympus M43 and Pentax APSC but for different purposes. My Pentax bodies are weather sealed so they get more use when I know it will be dusty or wet. I also have some old lenses that I use on them when I’m nostalgic and I also have more macro lenses and accessories for Pentax.

I use the Olympus (E-M10 II) as my main camera for the lighter weight, smaller size, and I have found I see better with the EVF. I have an E-PL8 that I use instead of a compact with either the EZ compact zoom or one of the pancake lenses. I think the IBIS is slightly better on the Olys for me but the weight and lens size may be part of the difference. My Oly bodies both have tilt screens so I can shoot like I have a waist-level finder without having to get down on my bad knees and get up with my bad back.��

If I do my part both give my results that look good on a screen and prints up to 13x19” and I don’t print ant larger. I still prefer my M645 or RB67 to either brand but I think I’m past lugging them around and I gave up my darkroom.
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