[clackers]

It's surprising to see how close, such as this Canon EOS R, where Eye AF does not work and it's back to Pentax style Face Detection.

Attached Images

 

[RGlasel]

It's surprising to see how close, such as this Canon EOS R, where Eye AF does not work and it's back to Pentax style Face Detection.

Isn't the model a mannequin? EyeAF doesn't even have to worry about tracking in this shot.

BTW, Sports Illustrated went to all-freelance photography in 2015 and in my opinion the quality of illustration in SI has improved since then. SI seems to have been able to sell more ad space to bigger clients over the same time frame as well, a few years ago, the non-swimsuit issues were getting pretty threadbare. You can't even photograph community college sports without a media pass in many places, so the real distinguishing feature in professional sports photography is access to authorized shooting zones. In ice hockey and motoracing, the best authorized shooting zones are unshielded openings in safety barriers, so getting access definitely trumps gear selection and differences in skill have to be pretty dramatic to result in changes in access. With indoor sports venues, if the event is intended to be televised, the lighting will be upgraded to the point that modern camera sensors don't need the benefit of strobe lighting and the video rights are far more valuable, so the likelihood that still photographers will be allowed to use strobe lighting is low. What does make a difference is if there are situations during the event where either a mirrorless or mirrored camera is unable to get the shot; continuous AF performance is definitely critical and I suspect that is the main reason why authorized photographers seem to be sticking with DSLRs for professional action photography. For stationary or staged media access events, that's not a big concern and event organizers might grant access to individual photographers for only certain portions of the event. My final comment is that for high profile events, a photographer might conceviably use equipment other than what he or she is sponsored to use, because getting the shot is the only thing that counts and it is unlikely that they will be publicly called out for using their trusty D500 in the arena, even though Sony is sponsoring them (just as an example).

[clackers]

Isn't the model a mannequin? EyeAF doesn't even have to worry about tracking in this shot.

Yep, but it bafflingly couldn't find the eyes.

I see this in the Pentax Face Detection too (which is actually eye detection) … the time stuffing around changing angles a bit to get it to kick in, I could have scrolled up to the eye with the AF point myself, or at narrower apertures, just focused and recomposed with the centre point.

Here's the Sony A9 which has been asked to track Chelsea Northrup's eye. Oops! (Credit: Tony & Chelsea Northrup - YouTube)

[MarkJerling]

Yep, but it bafflingly couldn't find the eyes.

I see this in the Pentax Face Detection too (which is actually eye detection) … the time stuffing around changing angles a bit to get it to kick in, I could have scrolled up to the eye with the AF point myself, or at narrower apertures, just focused and recomposed with the centre point.

Here's the Sony A9 which has been asked to track Chelsea Northrup's eye. Oops! (Credit: Tony & Chelsea Northrup - YouTube)

Good one Ian. It's the best $$$ony Northop video I've seen. Shortest one too.

[clackers]

Good one Ian. It's the best $$$ony Northop video I've seen. Shortest one too.

*She's* alright, and I think she's browsed this forum before for info - she gave a kind of admiring potted history of Asahi/Pentax.

Chelsea, if you're reading this, and it's not working with Tony, give me a call!

[clackers]

Hmm, now I've just got a text message saying "Come over to mine for a Netflix and cuddle. Yours, Chelsea. (I'm definitely not BruceBanner)"

Seems legit, I'm getting my car keys!

[BigMackCam]

Hmm, now I've just got a text message saying "Come over to mine for a Netflix and cuddle. Yours, Chelsea. (I'm definitely not BruceBanner)"

Seems legit, I'm getting my car keys!

LOL Don't do it, Ian... She only wants you for your off-camera flash knowledge. She's a "strobe digger"...

[Trickortreat]

Environmental portraiture is what they are, and they are the sports photographer's dream job. They might be shooting for the athlete and their business manager, for images that they can use on their website or bio. They might be shooting them to endorse a product, such as for Nike. Or they might be shooting to support an interview in Sports Illustrated.

Yes, and im not disputing all that. I just don't like that kind of photography. I just dont like staged gigs…
For the photo below - wow - I like that - dramatic photo. I really didnt know they can use strobes court side.

---------- Post added 09-19-19 at 08:19 AM ----------

I've shot eye AF with an A7 IIIR, Trickortreat.
If you're not close enough, it doesn't appear at all, at other points it falls back and attempts face AF, where it is similar to the Pentax face AF.

Well - I've never shoot with mirrorless myself, like I've said - just theorycrafting here
Algorithms will probably get better in future, after all - they do have high resolution data from main sensors.

[clackers]

Yes, and im not disputing all that. I just don't like that kind of photography. I just dont like staged gigs…

Well, Roger Federer and his management just don't care about your attitude towards commercial photography that has impact, Trickortreat, nor do I, to be honest.

For the photo below - wow - I like that - dramatic photo. I really didnt know they can use strobes court side.

Yes, if you're interested, this link goes into the nitty gritty of the preparations. For the NBA playoffs, strobes can only be used by Associated Press, Sports Illustrated and USA Today on the same court. I assume they pay for the privilege - everyone wants to shoot using that strategy.

How to Light a Huge Basketball Arena with Strobes, a Step-by-Step Guide

[clackers]

My final comment is that for high profile events, a photographer might conceviably use equipment other than what he or she is sponsored to use, because getting the shot is the only thing that counts and it is unlikely that they will be publicly called out for using their trusty D500 in the arena, even though Sony is sponsoring them (just as an example).

Sure, in cricket, the athletes use custom made bats, but they rip the stickers off and put their sponsors' name on instead. The crowds don't know any different.

Zak Arias was 'bought' by Fuji but of course continued shooting MF with his Phase One as well, despite producing a video for Fuji called 'Crop is crap' arguing smaller formats were fine.

Fuji of course has missed out on the full frame bandwagon - the mount is unsuitable, IIRC (it is a limitation of Sony's E mount, too, but they went ahead anyway).

[Trickortreat]

Well, Roger Federer and his management just don't care about your attitude towards commercial photography that has impact, Trickortreat, nor do I, to be honest.

Well, I really dont care about other think. I shared my view on staged photography and that is - I dont like it

Yes, if you're interested, this link goes into the nitty gritty of the preparations. For the NBA playoffs, strobes can only be used by Associated Press, Sports Illustrated and USA Today on the same court. I assume they pay for the privilege - everyone wants to shoot using that strategy. How to Light a Huge Basketball Arena with Strobes, a Step-by-Step Guide

cool! thanx!

[clackers]

Well, I really dont care about other think.

We know. From this post, and all your others.

[Rondec]

Well, I really dont care about other think. I shared my view on staged photography and that is - I dont like it



cool! thanx!

But do you like "staged" sporting events?

Strobes are a bit like HDR or many other techniques. They can be done poorly or well. My guess is that you aren't aware of all of the "action" images that you have seen have actually used flashes.

If you know what you are doing, you can use them to effectively enhance your image, create back lighting or rim lighting situations. A lot of the best skate boarding/snow boarding shots are taken with the use of strobes and without them the images are much flatter (and it may be harder to freeze the motion.

[Dan Rentea]

It's surprising to see how close, such as this Canon EOS R, where Eye AF does not work and it's back to Pentax style Face Detection.

First of all, that was the eye af and face detect of the camera when was launched. Here is how eye af looks like after the latest firmware update. Keep also in mind that this isn't a sport camera.

You Tube

You Tube

Here's the Sony A9 which has been asked to track Chelsea Northrup's eye. Oops!

Second, when comes to eye af of Sony, Canon and Nikon, even if the little square seems not to keep up with the eye, if you look at the end result, you may be surprised about how well it tracked the eye.

I've shot eye AF with an A7 IIIR

Third, have you used A7R III with the latest firmware update? I'm asking because there is a big difference in Af performance and with the latest Sony firmware update the eye af and overall tracking became really good compared to what Sony or internet reviewers said when the latest Sony cameras were released.

Forth, eye af becomes less important when the subject is far away because the DOF increases and if you shoot a person full body with some negative space around, shooting with eye af or with face detection will give you same results. The advantage of eye af or face detect comes when you want to be sure you get the person face in focus no matter where he moves in the frame. With DSLRs you need to use either single point af either group af area (5 af points group seems also used by Olympic pro photographers) and you need to keep the af point/af points on the subjects face. When comes to sport cameras like Canon 1Dx II or D5, these cameras comes with improved face detection over 5D Mark IV for example and this feature helps photographers keeping the subject in focus in demanding situations. In addition to face priority mode, a subject tracking has been added for situations when a face is not visible (motor sports for example). That's why DSLRs are still going to be used by sport photographers. Not to mention build quality, service and support they get at sport events...

On the other hand, technology improves things year after year and if Canon and Nikon will push mirrorless cameras in sport and wildlife, we may see some changes in the next few years even in this segment.

[clackers]

Third, have you used A7R III with the latest firmware update?

Yes, just a couple of weeks ago with the 70-200mm G Master f2.8, it had the 'Animal Eye' AF option … after thirty minutes I went 'meh', gave it back, and resumed with my K-1.

I have been an FF Sony owner and shooter for four years now, BTW, but you, Dan …

You used to be dismissive of photographers buying shiny new things for the sake of being shiny new things. You used to defend your little Canon 6D against all the mirrorless novelties, and yet you've become a publicist and salesman for them, by that listing you did in the other thread of all the new and upcoming R mount lenses next year.

Or is It really you, maybe it's Surfar who's hacked your account and is posting all this …

I quite liked the old Dan, he wasn't the zealous besotted type, the born again.