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10-10-2019, 09:48 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I use Lightroom, but if I decided to abandon Lightroom for any reason I think my system would remain essentially the same. I set it up before buying Lightroom and though Lightroom makes it easier to use, the framework can be used with other programs or just by searching the folder structure in the operating system. I started this with a Sony Mavica in 2000.

- As images are copied to the computer they are renamed to YYYY.MM.DD@HH.MM.SS.####. The #### is the camera image number which sometimes help distinguish rapidly shot images.
- Images are copied into a folder for each day. The folders are named YYYY-MM-DD. Lightroom does this automatically on import but other programs will as well. I used for many years before Lightroom a simple program called 'Renamer' or somthing like that which essentially did the same renaming and copying functions that Lightroom now performs.
- After import to Lightroom I add keywords or tags as they are now called. It takes great discipline to maintain a logical keyword structure but Lightroom makes it easier.
- Keywords are structured meaning that adding 'Gala' as a keyword also adds everything higher in the structure: "Food>Fruit>Apple>Gala"
- Images have color markers added during the process. On import Lightroom marks everything with "red", when I have completed my first sort and delete I mark the keepers as 'yellow', once developed they are marked "green" and when titles and keywording is complete they are marked "blue", and once uploaded to a sales site or moved to the proper collection the color tag is removed.

- I also use a mix of both regular and smart collections to sort things into logical groups. For example I have a collection "Amazon" which includes all images for sale in my Amazon shop. I also have smart collections for things like "5 stars", "stock image", "portfolio" and "no keywords" to help me stay organized.
- Keywords and star ratings are written out to the files themselves so that information is available from the operating system if Lightroom goes away or my catalog suffers a catastrophic failure.

So essentially I have four separate systems of organization that operate independently. First is the folder structure so that if I know the date or approximate date of an image I can get quite close. Second is a structured keyword system that works both within Lightroom and through the operating system. Searching for 'Apple' will return all images with that keyword. And third is organization by purpose or status using collections. So I can quickly see all images that have no keywords or all images that are for sale on stock sites or in my current portfolio. And fourth the progress of the develop process is marked by color tags so that I can come back a week or month later and know for certain the develop status of any image or batch or images.
I use a similar system with Lightroom, although I don't rename the RAW files, just import them into folders named by date as you've described.

Setting up a good keyword hierarchy is really helpful, like with your example with Gala (fruit). I do this with locations and organisms, so you only have to tag with the lowest level of the hierarchy to pick up all the keywords above it.
Smart collections work well if you don't want to do a specific search, but have all images that match certain criteria grouped together without making copies or moving the originals. (You can have the same image in multiple smart collections without eating up disk space.)

Lightroom also lets you catalogue images that aren't necessarily online at a given time, and will show preview images and metadata, but won't let you edit them till you connect the drive they're on. They'll still show up in collections and searches though.

One of the nice things about Pentax using DNG as a RAW format is that Lightroom can write all the keyword tags, captions, and edit history to the DNG file without actually altering the RAW data itself, so you have both the RAW data and metadata in the file in case of anything happening to Lightroom's database, so it can always be reconstructed. JPGs also support stored metadata in the files.

One other thing I like about Lightroom, which possibly isn't necessarily about organisation, but sort of is, is the use of virtual copies, so if I can't work out how I want to process an image, and want to try some variations without actually making multiple copies of the file, I'll create virtual copies so that there's only one file on disk, but multiple variations of adjustments.

10-10-2019, 09:56 PM   #47
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My scheme is highly dependent on file metadata and separate approaches for source originals as opposed to processing metadata and content management. Source files are not directly managed by the CMS.

*****************************************************************

Files for digital and digitized originals:
  • EXIF retained and/or edited to be as complete as possible in regards to camera, lens, and other capture metadata
  • On hard drive by year and (subdirectories) dates taken (or developed for film)
  • Filenames for digital capture based on camera and filename from the camera
  • Filenames for digitized negatives/slides based on accession number (primary key) in a separate relational database
  • Filenames for misc. scanned content using descriptive names
  • All files with descriptive metadata (keywords and such) as much as appropriate to the image.

Film negatives and transparencies:
  • 35mm and roll film negatives/transparencies, unmounted, are stored in archival sleeves in oversized loose-leaf binders along with per-roll proof sheets with printed key for accession number on each proof
  • 35mm slides are stored mounded in original cardboard or plastic boxes labeled by both date and accession number range for contents
  • 4x5 sheet negatives and transparencies are stored in single sheet sleeves in 4x5 file boxes along with descriptive index cards
  • All film negatives and slides are entered in a comprehensive relational database containing capture details, processing details, notes for printing/scanning, and other information as is appropriate

Content management using Lightroom:
  • LR metadata is never written to source originals and is maintained by the LR catalog mechanism
  • The Lightroom Library is based in part on the file system conventions for the original digital source files. This is enforced through the import mechanism.
  • Images of note flagged for significance
  • Copious use of tags, titles, captions both present on import and added as needed
  • Copious use of virtual copies particularly those used for output with additional metadata
  • Use of Collections to organize client final virtual copies
  • Use of Collections to organize other virtual copies, particularly in regards to prints, cards, and such

Scanned Flat Art and/or Darkroom Prints
Not currently managed outside of Lightroom.

Content files from Lightroom exports:
  • On hard drive by target site, audience, or client with subdirectories by year >> projects, etc. as needed with files stored under a form of the original's filename to all easy trace to the original in LR and on the hard drive

Prints from Digitized Images
Poorly defined at present, though may likely require a database of sorts for inventory management and per-print paper and processing information.

*****************************************************************

It's not really as complex as it seems since most of the work regarding the film assets was done decades ago. At present, there are about 50,000 images cataloged with most of the last seven or so years being fully tagged and accessible for searches and/or grouping using LR.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-10-2019 at 10:01 PM.
10-10-2019, 10:02 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
- Keywords are structured meaning that adding 'Gala' as a keyword also adds everything higher in the structure: "Food>Fruit>Apple>Gala"
How is this done? I did not know that LR supported parent-child keyword structures.


Steve
10-10-2019, 11:15 PM   #49
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I use Lightroom folders based on subject matter. Where the subject may fall into two categories, I select the prime reason for the shoot in question. If it is just a few flowers on a china trip the go into the places. If it flowers in the backyard as the primary factor it goes into Nature.Landscapes get filed under the place. Lightroom's extensive keyword features makes this relatively easy to find. Dates are easily looked up in metadata so I do not catalog by date. I am more likely to remember a photo I want by place and subject rather that the date


>Places
>>Overseas
>>>China Oct 2010
>>>New Zealand 2008
>>Australia
>>>Queensland
>>>>Nambour 2015
>>>>Brisbane 2015

>Nature
>>Aminals
>>>Melbourne Zoo 2014
>>Birds
>>Flowers

10-11-2019, 08:37 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
How is this done? I did not know that LR supported parent-child keyword structures.
If you look in the "Keyword List" panel of the Library tab there is a list of all keywords ever used. From there you can drag and drop them into whatever order you want.

For example lets say you have the keywords apple, fruit, and food in your list but in a linear list. By grabbing apple and dropping it on fruit you make apple a lower level hierarchy of fruit. Now grab fruit and drop it on food. Now you have three levels. Adding 'apple' to an image will now also add 'fruit' and 'food'

You can also do this from the keywording panel by indicating hierarchy with the > sign when adding a new keyword. So if you wanted to put a new keyword in the correct place in your ordered list you would type "apple>Fuji" in the keywording panel for that image. You would add a new keyword "Fuji" and place it in your ordered list under apple. You would also have added the keywords "food" and "fruit" to the image you just added the new keyword "Fuji" to.

Your list would look like:
Food
>>>>Fruit
>>>>>>>>Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fuji

Unfortunately if your keyword list was never ordered you might have thousands of unordered keywords in it. Which is a daunting task to get into any kind of order. When I started I purchased an ordered keyword list and imported it into Lightroom. This gave me a base structure to start with and I have been very diligent in keeping things ordered. If you do not take the time to maintain your list it gets to be a mess quickly. Despite my warnings my wife has not maintained her list and it is predictably a complete mess.
10-11-2019, 09:55 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
If you look in the "Keyword List" panel of the Library tab there is a list of all keywords ever used. From there you can drag and drop them into whatever order you want.

For example lets say you have the keywords apple, fruit, and food in your list but in a linear list. By grabbing apple and dropping it on fruit you make apple a lower level hierarchy of fruit. Now grab fruit and drop it on food. Now you have three levels. Adding 'apple' to an image will now also add 'fruit' and 'food'

You can also do this from the keywording panel by indicating hierarchy with the > sign when adding a new keyword. So if you wanted to put a new keyword in the correct place in your ordered list you would type "apple>Fuji" in the keywording panel for that image. You would add a new keyword "Fuji" and place it in your ordered list under apple. You would also have added the keywords "food" and "fruit" to the image you just added the new keyword "Fuji" to.

Your list would look like:
Food
>>>>Fruit
>>>>>>>>Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fuji

Unfortunately if your keyword list was never ordered you might have thousands of unordered keywords in it. Which is a daunting task to get into any kind of order. When I started I purchased an ordered keyword list and imported it into Lightroom. This gave me a base structure to start with and I have been very diligent in keeping things ordered. If you do not take the time to maintain your list it gets to be a mess quickly. Despite my warnings my wife has not maintained her list and it is predictably a complete mess.
Wow...that's all I can say. Obviously a power user! Despite having Martin Evenings' Lightroom book, I have never done a deep dive into the material on the keyword facility and now I regret it. All the stuff you describe is there too.

Thanks for sharing...I bow in your presence, oh great one.


Steve
10-11-2019, 10:12 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Thanks for sharing...I bow in your presence, oh great one.
Steve, considering your vast knowledge and the times your posts have helped me I'm just glad I could help. And actually know something you didn't

I have over 10,000 images for sale on stock sites, so the keywording is critical to an efficient workflow. I spent a lot of time researching how to do keywording as quickly and accurately as possible. Lightroom is not perfect in this regard, but it does have the tools needed if you dig deep enough. I got a big leg up by purchasing a list in the beginning but since then I have probably added 10 times the keywords that were on the original list. The basic structure is what is difficult to get started with and the purchased list was worth the expense for that alone.

Some additional information on controlled vocabulary and ordered lists: Keyword Lists / Controlled Vocabularies | The Lightroom Queen

10-11-2019, 10:57 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Some additional information on controlled vocabulary and ordered lists: Keyword Lists / Controlled Vocabularies | The Lightroom Queen
Thanks! "Controlled Vocabularies"...now there is a term I have not seen for a couple of years...


Steve
10-11-2019, 11:35 AM - 1 Like   #54
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I organize my photos by weight, and then by taste.

> One pound photos
>> Tastes of elderberry
>> Tastes of squash
> Two pound photos
>> Tastes of durian

... and on an on.
10-11-2019, 05:07 PM   #55
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For digital:
Year Folder (EX: 2019)
-->this contains two folders: RAW and Exported JPEG.
-->Each then contains identical folders with a YYYY.MM.DD structure followed by unique name. (EX: 2019.10.11 Japan, Okinawa beaches)

The files are edited with with added metadata in my photo-editing program so I can search them within windows search function to bring them up.
My metadata tags are generally nouns and proper nouns. EX: Hokkaido, Flowers, Nicole.

This has made my gradual split from Lightroom and other editing suites more or less painless.

For Film:
Sleeves in a binder by date. Since I scan all my work I use the same names on my sleeves as I state on my computer's filing system. When I want to track down a negative, I do so first on my computer, which tells me where in the binders that frame is.

Last edited by Gerbermiester; 10-11-2019 at 06:02 PM.
10-12-2019, 06:35 AM   #56
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About a year ago I started a system, broken down into Master File>Main Categories(things like family, travel, city/landscape, pets, travel, work, etc.)>subcategories>1-Raw, 2-Photoshop, Finished (web & prints). Files are named and tagged on import. The nice thing is that underlying images are visible in the upper levels, and are automatically sorted as I click on bottom level folders.
10-14-2019, 09:17 PM   #57
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By date, with a totally irrational set of tags.
10-16-2019, 11:37 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Unfortunately if your keyword list was never ordered you might have thousands of unordered keywords in it. Which is a daunting task to get into any kind of order.
I will second this - organizing keywords in Lightroom is hideous and it's really best to keep on top of it or you'll end up with a mess that you can't even bear to look at.

The hierarchies are great to organize both your keyword list in Lightroom and your brain. It makes the specificity of the keywords more obvious, and you can drill drown from the broadest to see what applies to a batch you're currently importing. For example, If I was photographing a bunch of different apples in one sitting, "apples" would apply to the entire batch on import and I could tag the varieties later. If I was photographing a bunch of apples and pears, I could tag them all with "fruit" on import. It helps the neglectful tagger like myself make sure a photoshoot is tagged with something on import.
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