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10-17-2019, 11:57 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by TLiivo Quote
This is what I’d give an arm and a leg to get from Pentax. I know I’m not alone...this would be so much easier to market.
I'd like to bet you don't actually work in marketing?

10-17-2019, 12:00 PM   #17
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Well, I see the point now, all I really want now is a full-frame KP

---------- Post added 10-17-2019 at 10:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
I'd like to bet you don't actually work in marketing?
Actually, I do. I work for the largest, privately-owned TV station in Estonia, in the digital marketing department.

Last edited by TLiivo; 10-17-2019 at 12:08 PM.
10-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #18
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Well, that went well! Thanks for playing. :-)
10-17-2019, 12:31 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Mirrorless is a tough game for Pentax. Not sure what the point is if you keep the k mount like the K-01 did. Not really that much size savings over a small SLR like the K-S1. Lose the K mount and you dig yourself into even more trouble since suddenly you have to generate a full line up of lenses for that new mount. Adapters are a stop gap at best and with the number of screw drive lenses out there, odds are that most adapters would not allow for a keeping of decent auto focus with those lenses.

Finally, Pentax just isn't a tech company. High end video and EVFs haven't been their thing and the idea that they could churn out a MILC that would match out with the best that Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji and Sony (wow that's a crowded field!) is unlikely. That's why they are likely sticking with SLR design for now and reserving MILC design for cameras like the GR III.

10-17-2019, 12:34 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by TLiivo Quote

This is what Id give an arm and a leg to get from Pentax.
Price: The FF version ~1500 / APS-C version with a 12MP sensor ~800

I know this would shoot Pentax in the leg as its a K-1 without a pentaprism. But would be a step in the direction that the world is actually moving.
So your arm and a leg is worth about 1500 euros?

I agree this would hurt Pentax because of the cost to produce something competing with their own FF DSLR, not to mention the need to develop a whole new system of lenses.
Mirrorless is a tech that's currently trendy but I don't think Ricoh has the resources to compete with Sony, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fujifilm, etc. Their survival has been in knowing who they are and sticking to it.

For example, Mazda is a smaller car company that cannot compete with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, GM, Ford, etc. So it would like being a loyal Mazda owner wanting a hybrid with a CVT transmission. That isn't in the cards and instead they are working on very specific niche of driver/owners that appreciate manual transmissions or at least automatic trans with efficient but fun to drive gas powered cars.
10-17-2019, 01:45 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
So your arm and a leg is worth about 1500 euros?

I agree this would hurt Pentax because of the cost to produce something competing with their own FF DSLR, not to mention the need to develop a whole new system of lenses.
Mirrorless is a tech that's currently trendy but I don't think Ricoh has the resources to compete with Sony, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fujifilm, etc. Their survival has been in knowing who they are and sticking to it.

For example, Mazda is a smaller car company that cannot compete with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, GM, Ford, etc. So it would like being a loyal Mazda owner wanting a hybrid with a CVT transmission. That isn't in the cards and instead they are working on very specific niche of driver/owners that appreciate manual transmissions or at least automatic trans with efficient but fun to drive gas powered cars.

I can hop around and take photos with one hand and a leg, so yeah, the extras are up for bargaining for Pentax. But yeah, I see the problem now, the budget to develop this rocketship is probably pretty steep. But I do hope they'd get a Full-frame sensor in a slightly smaller and less advanced body. Like the K-5 platform, or the KP. I plan on travelling all across Europe at some point, and lugging around a K-1 and its kit, seems like a bit too much for my limp hands, especially, if I have only one...

The K-5 I have now seems perfect for the job, it's light, it's small, but it's not Full-Frame...

And AMEN to Mazda, my wife has a Mazda 3 and around town, it's a dream! But on the highway, it's a nightmare...4000RPM@110km/h in fifth (top gear)...that's just...wow.

NB: Don't tell me to buy a Sony, that's a defeatist move and will solve nothing.
10-17-2019, 08:05 PM - 1 Like   #22
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The perfect Pentax mirrorless would be, without question........

A Q with a viewfinder.

That really is all the Pentax lineup needs for a mirrorless body.
10-17-2019, 09:34 PM   #23
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Nah , I'm happy with the K1 K-01 and Q's. The thought of an electronic viewfinder doesn't really inspire me.

10-17-2019, 11:08 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by TLiivo Quote
Well, I see the point now, all I really want now is a full-frame KP
It's called a K-1
10-17-2019, 11:12 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Mirrorless is a tough game for Pentax. Not sure what the point is if you keep the k mount like the K-01 did. Not really that much size savings over a small SLR like the K-S1. Lose the K mount and you dig yourself into even more trouble since suddenly you have to generate a full line up of lenses for that new mount. Adapters are a stop gap at best and with the number of screw drive lenses out there, odds are that most adapters would not allow for a keeping of decent auto focus with those lenses.

Finally, Pentax just isn't a tech company. High end video and EVFs haven't been their thing and the idea that they could churn out a MILC that would match out with the best that Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji and Sony (wow that's a crowded field!) is unlikely. That's why they are likely sticking with SLR design for now and reserving MILC design for cameras like the GR III.
Correct, no need to spend research dollars in a shrinking market
10-17-2019, 11:28 PM - 1 Like   #26
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Pentax had made it clear in many interviews since the CP+, The closest to mirrorless they are willing to go to is keep a close look at the mirrorless market only and not enter it for now. Just like back before K-1 days, I guess.

But I want to answer this for fun anyway!

I wonder why you mentioned an adapter to K mount. I am looking at KP and comparing it with Sony A7 bodies a few times when I am in a camera store here. KP is not thick. K01 is not thick either BUT but but Just dont design the outher shell to look somewhat thick like the K01.

KP body size with FF sensor in there is what I hope or better say DREAMing for. Make entry-level body with KP alike material to save cost and weight then Pro level body with K3 alike materials + a few more pro features (whatever that mean!).

Last edited by tokyoscape; 10-17-2019 at 11:34 PM.
10-17-2019, 11:50 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by tokyoscape Quote
Pentax had made it clear in many interviews since the CP+, The closest to mirrorless they are willing to go to is keep a close look at the mirrorless market only and not enter it for now. Just like back before K-1 days, I guess.

But I want to answer this for fun anyway!

I wonder why you mentioned an adapter to K mount. I am looking at KP and comparing it with Sony A7 bodies a few times when I am in a camera store here. KP is not thick. K01 is not thick either BUT but but Just dont design the outher shell to look somewhat thick like the K01.

KP body size with FF sensor in there is what I hope or better say DREAMing for. Make entry-level body with KP alike material to save cost and weight then Pro level body with K3 alike materials + a few more pro features (whatever that mean!).


Am I not right is saying that an FF camera needs the correct distance between mount and sensor, which is why the K-1 has the extra body thickness?
10-18-2019, 12:16 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Robin Quote
Am I not right is saying that an FF camera needs the correct distance between mount and sensor, which is why the K-1 has the extra body thickness?
K mount has a Flange Focal Distance of 45.46 mm. The FF K1 and every Pentax APSC body are using K-mount, so they use exactly the same flange focal distance. The extra thickness of K1 came from things like rear LCD, and whatever Pentax have in there.

I used to think FF sensor on K1 is larger so the SR system must be bigger but A7II III have an in-body stabilizer for its FF sensor and their body size still around KP size. (I am only "guessing", but I am not a camera engineer).

--- edit after a few more research ---
K1 depth: 85.46mm - K flange focal distance: 45.46mm = 40.04 mm
Kp depth: 76mm - K flange focal distance: 45.46mm = 30.54 mm
Sony A7II depth: 60mm - E flange focal distance:18mm = 42.00 mm
It looks like K1 uses almost 2mm LESS than that of A7II at the back of its sensor. If Pentax can cut it down to that of Kp, 30.54mm, they will have a FF body with only 1.6 cm thicker than A7II body but we have 100 of smaller FF prime and often cheaper too. It will be very attractive for anyone looking to downside the whole system, IMHO.

Last edited by tokyoscape; 10-18-2019 at 12:45 AM.
10-18-2019, 12:38 AM - 1 Like   #29
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I note your original post has a photo of an LX, one of whose major features was the removable pentaprism. If there was to be a Pentax mirrorless offering in the 35FF format, it should be a K-1 with a replaceable OVF/EVF, if we weren't to see a model with a hybrid viewfinder. Anything else would require much more development, a new mount and line of lenses to be credible.

One small advantage of the replaceable finder is that the weight of the glass pentaprism is deleted when using the EVF, saving around 50 grams or a bit more than 1/20th of the weight of a K-1.

Having owned an LX for a few years now, I have to say that I do like its style, flexibility and ergonomics, even if its lesser contemporary the K2DMD was more desirable in some ways. However, it's the flexibility that the removable pentaprism provides, which is the real appeal of the LX system, to me.
10-18-2019, 02:59 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I note your original post has a photo of an LX, one of whose major features was the removable pentaprism. If there was to be a Pentax mirrorless offering in the 35FF format, it should be a K-1 with a replaceable OVF/EVF, if we weren't to see a model with a hybrid viewfinder. Anything else would require much more development, a new mount and line of lenses to be credible.

One small advantage of the replaceable finder is that the weight of the glass pentaprism is deleted when using the EVF, saving around 50 grams or a bit more than 1/20th of the weight of a K-1.

Having owned an LX for a few years now, I have to say that I do like its style, flexibility and ergonomics, even if its lesser contemporary the K2DMD was more desirable in some ways. However, it's the flexibility that the removable pentaprism provides, which is the real appeal of the LX system, to me.
The removable pentaprism would be a killer feature these days as-well. And it would be very Pentax to make this possible. So a full frame KP, with a removable Pentaprism for that rangefinder look...god that would be something

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