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10-18-2019, 11:16 AM - 1 Like   #31
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Ideal Pentax Mirrorless Camera...

Isn't that like the:

Ideal Tesla diesel car?
Ideal Harley-Davidson rice rocket?
Ideal Apple landline phone?
Ideal taco without the tortilla?

And the latest trend in education....ideal school without the grades, homework, tests, and bland cafeteria food?

I wonder if the Apple, Samsung, Sony, Lumix, Olympus, Fujifilm forums are dreaming of their ideal DSLR?

Pentaprism is part of the Pentax name, so if the mirrorless is made, it will be under the Ricoh moniker.

The only camera company that I can think of that seems not to care about words is Fujifilm. When Fuji Photo Film made film cameras, they were Fujica SLRs. Only when they started producing DSLRs did they change the name of their cameras to Fujifilm. Logical?

10-18-2019, 11:28 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Robot camera Quote
Firstly, I'd want a mirrorless Pentax to use the same battery as the DSLRs, not some tiny thing that doesn't last very long.

I see no real advantage in changing the mount. A mirrorless Pentax could be optimised for certain sorts of photography because the layout of components is not restricted by optical considerations. If you want to see what I mean by optimisation, look at the huge variety of designs that have been made for the 6X7 rollfilm format. A camera that shared the K mount but with rather different capabilities than the DSLRs would be part of a camera system that would be far more versatile than one that has DSLRs only; a unique selling point.

While a few wide angle primes and maybe even some standard lenses could be made smaller and lighter, many other lenses would have to be made longer and a bit heavier. I've compared the Pentax and Sony APS-C lens ranges, and there's little in it overall once you get a camera bag full. I have a Sony A6000 as a daily carry and it takes good photos, but to use my Pentax lenses requires an adaptor. I'd far rather it had a K mount, even if it was a little bigger and heavier.

Using an adapter to mount system lenses to a camera that's supposed to be part of the system is just a bodge.
Part of the point of this camera is that it would continue to use K-mount lenses - just like the K-1. I don't know which battery it would use, but I'd guessing they could fit a D-Li109 in there without any issue.
10-18-2019, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Ideal Pentax Mirrorless Camera...

Isn't that like the:

Ideal Tesla diesel car?
Ideal Harley-Davidson rice rocket?
Ideal Apple landline phone?
Ideal taco without the tortilla?

And the latest trend in education....ideal school without the grades, homework, tests, and bland cafeteria food?

I wonder if the Apple, Samsung, Sony, Lumix, Olympus, Fujifilm forums are dreaming of their ideal DSLR?

Pentaprism is part of the Pentax name, so if the mirrorless is made, it will be under the Ricoh moniker.

The only camera company that I can think of that seems not to care about words is Fujifilm. When Fuji Photo Film made film cameras, they were Fujica SLRs. Only when they started producing DSLRs did they change the name of their cameras to Fujifilm. Logical?

Sarcasm, I hope, but if not. What does the name have to do with anything? Yes, the name is derived from the shape of the pentaprism used in SLR cameras, but the ending deliberately looks like the Zeiss Ikon Contax. The name Pentax was actually a property of Zeiss Ikon until they sold it to Asahi Optical Co.

QuoteQuote:
I wonder if the Apple, Samsung, Sony, Lumix, Olympus, Fujifilm forums are dreaming of their ideal DSLR?
Why would they?
  • Apple isn't an imaging company. They don't produce any of their products anymore, they just design them on paper and send the specs to engineers across different manufacturing companies.
  • Samsung doesn't focus on imaging. While they did produce DSLR's in the past, it has never been their bread and butter.
  • Sony is ridiculously successful with their mirrorless A7 series cameras. Their aspirations with their A-Mount DSLR's showed them that they can't compete with the established brands, although the cameras weren't in any way bad, some of them you might actually call ideal. Hint, they actually used the Minolta A-type mount
  • Lumix is actually called Panasonic, and they have actually produced DSLR's as well, I think the DMC-L10 was their last-ditch attempt. They opted to drop the bulk as well. Now they're probably quite happy where they're at.
  • Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro...Nikon F-mount...need I say more? Hardly ideal, but they did produce a series of DSLR's.

Why I'm saying this? The companies you mentioned usually enhance and develop their product line based on their user base. That goes for their forums as well, but I doubt any of them have such a loyal and tight-knit community as Pentax has.

Pentax definitely listens to their user base as well, I have nothing against that, but I'd like to see the Pentax succeed properly in the digital age as well. The K1000 was the simpleton younger sister with removed features (self-timer, depth of field preview, film reminder dial, and the FP flash socket) from the Spotmatic F. Spotmatics were a big a bulky. Which of these actually defined Pentax in the film era? I remind you that the K1000 had a production life of 22 years (1976–1997).

We're really just trying to find the simpleton younger sister of the K-1 in the digital age. It doesn't really need to be mirrorless, but it needs to compete in the portability race and be full-frame.

Last edited by TLiivo; 10-18-2019 at 02:16 PM.
10-18-2019, 03:30 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by TLiivo Quote
Sarcasm, I hope, but if not.
We're really just trying to find the simpleton younger sister of the K-1 in the digital age. It doesn't really need to be mirrorless, but it needs to compete in the portability race and be full-frame.
I think everyone has their own idea of the perfect camera. Bigger companies (Sony, Canon) can or must diversify while smaller ones (Ricoh) can often survive as long as they stay within their niche market.

As a photo teacher, I have long believed that if anyone produced a stripped down simplified retro DSLR at an entry level price, there would be a solid market for it. Unfortunately, bells and whistles sells products as sites like Consumer Reports will often list comparisons of features.

Waiting for Pentax to produce a mirrorless system reminds me of Waiting for Godot. But I lost my crystal ball so I suppose anything is possible.


Last edited by Alex645; 10-18-2019 at 11:33 PM.
10-18-2019, 05:34 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
As a photo teacher, I have long believed that if anyone produced a stripped down simplified retro DSLR at an entry level price, there would be a solid market for it. Unfortunately, bells and whistles sells products as sites like Consumer Reports will often list comparisons of features.

I think you're slightly overestimating the average consumer, the class of people who actually buy the majority of cameras are still people who walk into a camera store and have a certain budget and need something solid. And/or have been told by their favourite vlogger/photographer on youtube what to buy.

For example, the Sony a6000 is the best selling mirrorless camera of all time and it still sells like hotcakes, even though it doesn't have a mic input, 4K video or an in-body stabiliser. Why you ask, it's just the best bang for your buck, it's in the right price bracket for the average consumer (~$550) and Sony works hard to get the word of mouth going by using local photographers/vloggers to market the cameras. So younger people are sold on Sony at the moment + adults who need something "nifty" with at least an APS-C sensor.

So if Pentax would somehow get a Full Frame entry-level priced around 1000-1500€, they'd cash in much better than with just another APS-C DSLR, it's a shrinking market, all thanks to what Sony and others are doing in the mirrorless scene.

If I'm honest, if I was getting into photography right now and not 15 years ago, I'd go for a mirrorless system instead.
10-18-2019, 05:44 PM - 1 Like   #36
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Making what the market want is not a bad idea to me for as long as the brand makes enough money to survive and grow.
I wouldn't be happy to see it keep making (what happen to be) what I want but making less and less money because it is not what the market wants.

Making big, small, stripped down or whatever cameras is a matter of when to do it.
When the market clearly wanted the big ff dslr, I think, it was the time to make one rather than just look at it.
When the market is going to ff mirrorless direction... I think, it is the time or at least plan for one too.
I understand Pentax doesn't want to rush in and risk fumble a ball. Just make sure they don't keep looking at it for too long. Otherwise, the brand will have endless problem with not enough money for their R&D.
10-18-2019, 11:11 PM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
As a photo teacher, I have long believed that if anyone produced a stripped down simplified retro DSLR at an entry level price, there would be a solid market for it. Unfortunately, bells and whistles sells products as sites like Consumer Reports will often list comparisons of features.
simple retro DSLR, yes that is a +1 from me
10-18-2019, 11:48 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
I think everyone has their own idea of the perfect camera.
QuoteOriginally posted by TLiivo Quote
I think you're slightly overestimating the average consumer, the class of people who actually buy the majority of cameras are still people who walk into a camera store and have a certain budget and need something solid. And/or have been told by their favourite vlogger/photographer on youtube what to buy.
From my observation in the US, the average consumer (vast majority) here use a smart phone for all their photography.

Americans who buy the majority of non-phone cameras get them from Costco or Amazon or maybe a large consumer electronics store like Bestbuy.

They are mostly influenced by family members, friends, colleagues at work, Consumer Reports, or a sales person.

I realize that probably isn't true everywhere and I personally miss the day when there were camera stores in every town and city. 40 years ago, going into a camera store was not a special event. That's where you bought your film, got it developed, etc. Now when I find myself in a camera store, it's a bit like walking into a sacred and rare place and I'm afraid if I blink I'll wake up.

10-19-2019, 12:11 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Part of the point of this camera is that it would continue to use K-mount lenses - just like the K-1. I don't know which battery it would use, but I'd guessing they could fit a D-Li109 in there without any issue.
You see, for me I would be happy with a new mount or even the F mount if it came with a K mount adapter in the box. I had an Olympus stylus 1s that had most of the mirror less tricks and it was great but the sensor was too small for a pixel peeper like me. Evf is great and I don't see much of a downside other than reducing the likelihood of bad exposures, although, as I learn from my mistakes I don't think I would want to eradicate a source. Would I buy one? If I was in the market, absolutely, but I love my KP and K3 so won't be spending when I don't need to

---------- Post added 10-19-19 at 12:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
simple retro DSLR, yes that is a +1 from me
Limited addition silver K70 for 499 would be nice. Less would be nicer

---------- Post added 10-19-19 at 12:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
simple retro DSLR, yes that is a +1 from me
Limited addition silver K70 for 499 would be nice. Less would be nicer
10-19-2019, 01:03 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Limited addition silver K70 for 499 would be nice. Less would be nicer
absolutely, yes agree
10-19-2019, 05:14 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
You see, for me I would be happy with a new mount or even the F mount if it came with a K mount adapter in the box.....
You can't adapt K-mount to F-mount. The F-mount flange focal distance is a bit longer than the K-mount flange distance but it's enough to make it so that you can't adapt K lenses to F-mount. You can adapt F lenses to K-mount but not the reverse.
10-19-2019, 07:09 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeyBugs95 Quote
You can't adapt K-mount to F-mount. The F-mount flange focal distance is a bit longer than the K-mount flange distance but it's enough to make it so that you can't adapt K lenses to F-mount. You can adapt F lenses to K-mount but not the reverse.
Oh, OK lol well in that case, something nice and shallow that gives you the scope to adapt anything ........ A mount? I was under the impression F mount was the mirror less mount and was shallow lol thanks for the info
10-19-2019, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Oh, OK lol well in that case, something nice and shallow that gives you the scope to adapt anything ........ A mount? I was under the impression F mount was the mirror less mount and was shallow lol thanks for the info
Sony A-mount is still a mount with a mirror. E-mount is what you're thinking of.
10-19-2019, 11:27 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeyBugs95 Quote
Sony A-mount is still a mount with a mirror. E-mount is what you're thinking of.
Lololol, you can tell I am a blinkered pentaxian can't you
10-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #45
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The lack of sales of the Nikon Df killed the mainstream retro digital camera... so many people said they wanted it and yet when Nikon produced it, so few people bought it...
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