How many people still shoot with mirror lens these days ?

**Serkevan** · 10-25-2019, 04:47 AM

Guys, stop. I don't have a lot of space left on my shelf! I cannot be thinking about lenses, and those pictures are so tempting

**GUB** · 10-25-2019, 04:51 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by aaacb

The rendering in the last image is fantastic, I like how the donuts don't really stand out as distinct shapes but still give it a little something. How close was the background for that effect?

The pigeon is quite a large bird. Guessing it was say 5 to 8 metres away and the background was a Tagasake tree (Tree Lucerne) and was probably a metre behind the bird. Probably similar proportions with the poppy picture. Perhaps the ideal is where the gap isn't too great and so the donut hasn't fully resolved. I think the background texture size in relationship to the blur has a lot to do with outcomes too. But one thing is sure it is mostly lady luck.

**Serkevan** · 10-25-2019, 05:06 AM

So, background should be the closest distance to subject that allows for a nice blur. This makes sense, and should give quite consistent results if there aren't any obvious highlight points present to induce the most noticeable donuts (like the sun shining through branches, bright reflections or fine texture like small branches themselves).

**DamienW** · 10-25-2019, 05:06 AM

I have a Tamron 500mm with Adaptall mount...doesn't come out much. I've only ever used it for moon/astro, maybe because it just reminds me of a tiny telescope.

I will have to try it on some land objects....could be fun.

I like those 400-600 shots though...background looks painted!

**aslyfox** · 10-25-2019, 05:11 AM - **3 Likes**

here is one of my hand held efforts

K 3 + Tamron Adaptall-2 SP 500mm f/8 Mirror (55BB)

SOOC

some pp

**sergysergy** · 10-25-2019, 05:34 AM

I have never used one but some of your pictures are making me think of buying one.

lotech · 10-25-2019, 05:40 AM

I just found this thread with comparsion of 3 mirror lens worth to take a look.

Samyang 100

redpit · 10-25-2019, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by lotech

I wonder how many people still shoot with mirror lens these days ? I like mirror lens for two reason, cost and portability. I am not a pro and will shoot wildlife occasionally, a high quality telephoto lens not only expensive but also heavy to carry. I used many different made of mirror lenses not from camera makers such as Vivitar, Soligor, Samyang/Rokinon, Tamron, Russia....etc., I found 2 made are the best, Tamron and the Russia MTO. Tamron is smaller and the color and contrast slightly better than the MTO but cost double as much depends on where you get it, where the MTO is relatively cheap and plentiful in the used market, most of them are ship from Ukraine so will take some time.

I limited myself to shoot up to 300mm (FF equiv. 450MM) for portability, but some times will shoot up to 500MM with mirror (FF equiv. 750MM), that's more than enough for a non pro and occasion bird-er. I also got a Japan made off brand 300MM mirror and it is quite good too, you won't find a bad 300MM mirror but 500MM is another story, it requires higher precision to produce. There are some new 300MM mirror made for MFT I believe they are good too, but they are smaller at f8 not the regular f5.6 further limited the usability of the 'dark lens'.

There is one note if you happen to find a Russia mirror lens, for instance the 3M5CA, you may find it blurry unclear and produces distorted image, don't return it so soon you can fix it. Early made Russia mirror lenses are not for camera but for weapon use, the mirror is mounted on the cannon for aiming, the lens is over tighten and caused the mirror to deform and produces distorted image, that wouldn't be a problem for weapon aiming but quite for photography. You can search on the internet 'relaxing the mirror lens' to find solution to fix this problem, it is quite simple and you can see the result instantly, my copy does not produce distorted image but unable to focus to infinity.

Mirror lens unlike glass refractive lenses, the infinity focus point is not locked at the far end but over-shoot, you can focus "beyond infinity", this design is to compensate for the metallic mirror expansion due to temperature, also used on early APO lenses due to rare earth glasses in use. The over shoot design actually good for adopting the lens to Pentax camera, coz there is more room for back focus correction, so that you can use any type of M42 adapter, 'sink' or 'flush' type, my lens focused properly after the above simple mod. Please note, Russia mirror uses M42 instead of the more common T mount, so be careful when using and do not force in the lens or you will break the screw thread.

Please see below some casual shots with the 3C5MA, please ignore the shaking and focus (no AF), and keep in mind that mirror lens has lower resolution and contrast than glass refractive lens, handheld shots can not produce the best result especially when shoot in the shade at high ISO, but absent or near absent of CA in long lens is the reason to give mirror lens a chance, also the vignetting on APS-C (K3) sensor is non exist, there are some other high quality shots you can find on the internet.

Great post and beautiful images! I also use my MTO 11A from time to time for entertainment! Going back to MF and mirror lens rendering is always something different and motivates me to shoot and explore those differencies...

redpit · 10-25-2019, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by GUB

Are you thinking of the K series 400-600mm? I don't think the 250 -600 is a mirror.
I have the 400-600 Pentax - a lucky bid on a rare lens. Also have a Tamron 500, opteka500 and an older Samyang 500. The Tamron is the best of these three and the other two are very hard to love. But the 400 -600 is well ahead of all. These links are with the 400 - 600 on the K-1

Like all zooms it is not bleeding edge sharp but it seems to have an art to it which wins me over.

Those are beautiful images and feel like paintings...

**aslyfox** · 10-25-2019, 05:56 AM

my thoughts about Mirror lenses

you have to get the right one, several are not good at all, I feel I got lucky

Mirror, Mirror ( in the lens ) eek ? ! ? - Page 4 - PentaxForums.com

you have to learn how to use it

it isn't a " jack of all trades " lens

**MossyRocks** · 10-25-2019, 06:44 AM

I have on occasion used the MTO 1000mm f/10 that I have on semi permanent loan so a buddy doesn't get in trouble with his wife. It is M39 mount and to get it focus to infinity and clear the popup flash I need to stick a teleconverter into the mix. So every time I've used it I've had to run it as a 2000mm f/20. Which means it is really a special purpose lens. It is actually smaller with the hood on it than my SMC A* 400/2.8 with hood retracted. The only things I've shot with it have been things in the night sky that are really bright like the moon or planets and it has worked fairly well but requires a big heavy stable tripod and strong tripod head since it is big and at 2000mm any vibration looks like a magnitude 9 earthquake.

**marcusBMG** · 10-25-2019, 07:30 AM

I have tamrons: 350mm, 500mm. I also have the 02F eyepiece adapter to go with, this makes an (almost) in your pocket 25x scope. If I just want to have a quick wander around the bird reserve for example and want to go light and cover both spotting and pics, then I'm set.
Note we have a mirror lens club, do contribute...

The Mirror Lens Club! - PentaxForums.com

**Serkevan** · 10-25-2019, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Cipher

I have a Rokinon 300mm f6.3 (converted from Minolta mount) that I have used on my Pentax Q7:

Diffraction and heat distortion of distant objects make it hard to use:

This looks both ridiculous and awesome. 1400mm equivalent? That's a lot of reach for such a small and light setup!

**Serkevan** · 10-25-2019, 08:03 AM

Do you feel like a ship captain looking through that spyglass?

lotech · 10-25-2019, 10:14 AM - **1 Like**

As far as my experience goes I would like to bring out some note on using a mirror lens.

1. Due to the design there are some limitiation on mirror lens, mirror lens has less resolution/resolving power than a regular glass refractive lens of the same focal length, contrast also lower, to get the best out of a mirror lens we should always use hood to block stray light, and shoot closer to reduce the need for cropping, and we should make use of the lighting to bring out the max detail of the subject.

2. Mirror lens is not sealed, the metallic mirror will get rust if damped, so the lens should always keep in dry box when not in use.

3. If the mirror is rusted the coating will seperate and this damage is one way ticket no return, and due to the high magnification even a slight bit of dirt will be highly magnified, I traded my Tamron for the MTO because of the oxidation on the coating, so when you purchase an used mirror lens, if possible, you should examine it closely to look for any imperfection.

If you are lucky enough to find a good Tamron at reasonable price don't hestitate, or you may try the MTO they are cheaper and easy to find and as good as the Tamron optically. For general use a 300MM one is enough and easy to carry also brighter, the 500MM is more suit for wildlife, anything above that will become unmanageable, focusing, carry and tripod ...etc. Someone mention that the 1000MM MTO has problem clearing the on camera flash, I've not tried but I will think twice before getting those big fat mirror, extension tube can fix that problem, but also reduce light reception (due to distance) on the already dark lens.

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10-25-2019, 04:47 AM	#16
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Guys, stop. I don't have a lot of space left on my shelf! I cannot be thinking about lenses, and those pictures are so tempting

10-25-2019, 04:51 AM - 2 Likes	#17
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,760	Originally posted by aaacb The rendering in the last image is fantastic, I like how the donuts don't really stand out as distinct shapes but still give it a little something. How close was the background for that effect? The pigeon is quite a large bird. Guessing it was say 5 to 8 metres away and the background was a Tagasake tree (Tree Lucerne) and was probably a metre behind the bird. Probably similar proportions with the poppy picture. Perhaps the ideal is where the gap isn't too great and so the donut hasn't fully resolved. I think the background texture size in relationship to the blur has a lot to do with outcomes too. But one thing is sure it is mostly lady luck.

10-25-2019, 05:06 AM	#18
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	So, background should be the closest distance to subject that allows for a nice blur. This makes sense, and should give quite consistent results if there aren't any obvious highlight points present to induce the most noticeable donuts (like the sun shining through branches, bright reflections or fine texture like small branches themselves).

10-25-2019, 05:06 AM	#19
DamienW Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 847	I have a Tamron 500mm with Adaptall mount...doesn't come out much. I've only ever used it for moon/astro, maybe because it just reminds me of a tiny telescope. I will have to try it on some land objects....could be fun. I like those 400-600 shots though...background looks painted!

10-25-2019, 05:34 AM	#21
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,170	I have never used one but some of your pictures are making me think of buying one.

10-25-2019, 05:40 AM	#22
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	I just found this thread with comparsion of 3 mirror lens worth to take a look. Samyang 100

10-25-2019, 05:46 AM	#23
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	Originally posted by lotech I wonder how many people still shoot with mirror lens these days ? I like mirror lens for two reason, cost and portability. I am not a pro and will shoot wildlife occasionally, a high quality telephoto lens not only expensive but also heavy to carry. I used many different made of mirror lenses not from camera makers such as Vivitar, Soligor, Samyang/Rokinon, Tamron, Russia....etc., I found 2 made are the best, Tamron and the Russia MTO. Tamron is smaller and the color and contrast slightly better than the MTO but cost double as much depends on where you get it, where the MTO is relatively cheap and plentiful in the used market, most of them are ship from Ukraine so will take some time. I limited myself to shoot up to 300mm (FF equiv. 450MM) for portability, but some times will shoot up to 500MM with mirror (FF equiv. 750MM), that's more than enough for a non pro and occasion bird-er. I also got a Japan made off brand 300MM mirror and it is quite good too, you won't find a bad 300MM mirror but 500MM is another story, it requires higher precision to produce. There are some new 300MM mirror made for MFT I believe they are good too, but they are smaller at f8 not the regular f5.6 further limited the usability of the 'dark lens'. There is one note if you happen to find a Russia mirror lens, for instance the 3M5CA, you may find it blurry unclear and produces distorted image, don't return it so soon you can fix it. Early made Russia mirror lenses are not for camera but for weapon use, the mirror is mounted on the cannon for aiming, the lens is over tighten and caused the mirror to deform and produces distorted image, that wouldn't be a problem for weapon aiming but quite for photography. You can search on the internet 'relaxing the mirror lens' to find solution to fix this problem, it is quite simple and you can see the result instantly, my copy does not produce distorted image but unable to focus to infinity. Mirror lens unlike glass refractive lenses, the infinity focus point is not locked at the far end but over-shoot, you can focus "beyond infinity", this design is to compensate for the metallic mirror expansion due to temperature, also used on early APO lenses due to rare earth glasses in use. The over shoot design actually good for adopting the lens to Pentax camera, coz there is more room for back focus correction, so that you can use any type of M42 adapter, 'sink' or 'flush' type, my lens focused properly after the above simple mod. Please note, Russia mirror uses M42 instead of the more common T mount, so be careful when using and do not force in the lens or you will break the screw thread. Please see below some casual shots with the 3C5MA, please ignore the shaking and focus (no AF), and keep in mind that mirror lens has lower resolution and contrast than glass refractive lens, handheld shots can not produce the best result especially when shoot in the shade at high ISO, but absent or near absent of CA in long lens is the reason to give mirror lens a chance, also the vignetting on APS-C (K3) sensor is non exist, there are some other high quality shots you can find on the internet. Great post and beautiful images! I also use my MTO 11A from time to time for entertainment! Going back to MF and mirror lens rendering is always something different and motivates me to shoot and explore those differencies...

10-25-2019, 05:54 AM	#24
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	Originally posted by GUB Are you thinking of the K series 400-600mm? I don't think the 250 -600 is a mirror. I have the 400-600 Pentax - a lucky bid on a rare lens. Also have a Tamron 500, opteka500 and an older Samyang 500. The Tamron is the best of these three and the other two are very hard to love. But the 400 -600 is well ahead of all. These links are with the 400 - 600 on the K-1 Like all zooms it is not bleeding edge sharp but it seems to have an art to it which wins me over. Those are beautiful images and feel like paintings...

10-25-2019, 05:56 AM	#25
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	my thoughts about Mirror lenses you have to get the right one, several are not good at all, I feel I got lucky Mirror, Mirror ( in the lens ) eek ? ! ? - Page 4 - PentaxForums.com you have to learn how to use it it isn't a " jack of all trades " lens

10-25-2019, 06:44 AM	#26
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	I have on occasion used the MTO 1000mm f/10 that I have on semi permanent loan so a buddy doesn't get in trouble with his wife. It is M39 mount and to get it focus to infinity and clear the popup flash I need to stick a teleconverter into the mix. So every time I've used it I've had to run it as a 2000mm f/20. Which means it is really a special purpose lens. It is actually smaller with the hood on it than my SMC A* 400/2.8 with hood retracted. The only things I've shot with it have been things in the night sky that are really bright like the moon or planets and it has worked fairly well but requires a big heavy stable tripod and strong tripod head since it is big and at 2000mm any vibration looks like a magnitude 9 earthquake.

10-25-2019, 07:30 AM	#27
marcusBMG Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: North Wales Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,869	I have tamrons: 350mm, 500mm. I also have the 02F eyepiece adapter to go with, this makes an (almost) in your pocket 25x scope. If I just want to have a quick wander around the bird reserve for example and want to go light and cover both spotting and pics, then I'm set. Note we have a mirror lens club, do contribute... The Mirror Lens Club! - PentaxForums.com

10-25-2019, 07:49 AM	#28
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Cipher I have a Rokinon 300mm f6.3 (converted from Minolta mount) that I have used on my Pentax Q7: Diffraction and heat distortion of distant objects make it hard to use: This looks both ridiculous and awesome. 1400mm equivalent? That's a lot of reach for such a small and light setup!

10-25-2019, 08:03 AM	#29
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Do you feel like a ship captain looking through that spyglass?

10-25-2019, 10:14 AM - 1 Like	#30
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	As far as my experience goes I would like to bring out some note on using a mirror lens. 1. Due to the design there are some limitiation on mirror lens, mirror lens has less resolution/resolving power than a regular glass refractive lens of the same focal length, contrast also lower, to get the best out of a mirror lens we should always use hood to block stray light, and shoot closer to reduce the need for cropping, and we should make use of the lighting to bring out the max detail of the subject. 2. Mirror lens is not sealed, the metallic mirror will get rust if damped, so the lens should always keep in dry box when not in use. 3. If the mirror is rusted the coating will seperate and this damage is one way ticket no return, and due to the high magnification even a slight bit of dirt will be highly magnified, I traded my Tamron for the MTO because of the oxidation on the coating, so when you purchase an used mirror lens, if possible, you should examine it closely to look for any imperfection. If you are lucky enough to find a good Tamron at reasonable price don't hestitate, or you may try the MTO they are cheaper and easy to find and as good as the Tamron optically. For general use a 300MM one is enough and easy to carry also brighter, the 500MM is more suit for wildlife, anything above that will become unmanageable, focusing, carry and tripod ...etc. Someone mention that the 1000MM MTO has problem clearing the on camera flash, I've not tried but I will think twice before getting those big fat mirror, extension tube can fix that problem, but also reduce light reception (due to distance) on the already dark lens.