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10-30-2019, 07:33 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I think the question should be why they are not using phone processors with the computational photography capabilities.
Because a custom ASIC or even a FPGA would be a better solution for low power devices. Besides pentax is already doing computational photography with the slow shutter speed noise reduction and pixel shift. A lot of the computational photography is rather gimmicky and once you go beyond things like super resolution (pixel shift) and noise reduction it becomes a much more difficult problem. Making use of the image composition functionality to simulate a large sensor could be another option but again that is trivial. In these cases a dedicated ASIC would be a better solution than a general purpose processor being faster and consuming substantially less power.

10-30-2019, 10:54 AM - 1 Like   #32
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I have pondered this myself and the related question, "when are we going to see the power of computational photography make a leap in dedicated cameras?" It blows me away what smartphones are capable now because of the leaps in computational photography. I'm not talking about the fake bokeh, which almost all the time still seems icky to me. I mean particularly the ability for smarter HDR processing, low light, smart portrait modes and advances in color rendering. I'm not someone who gets excited about "Phone X VS DSLR!" because it's so clear to me they are so different and there are physical limitations. I am also aware that the same things can be done in a traditional camera, most of time better, albeit manually. But it's the possibilities that excite me. The tech in even the most modern cameras today seems drastically outdated compared to these leaps.

I don't know exactly what would be best for merging these two ideas together, but my thoughts are similar to some who have already expressed theirs in this interesting thread (perhaps most interesting is the push back at even the thought.)

-Cameras that look and feel the same

-Powered by an open platform that lets you develop against the camera itself. Sony did something a while back that let you upload 'apps' from an app store for time lapse, etc. But make it open and available all. For instance, I made an app using the Ricoh SDK that turned my K-1 into a motion capture camera, but the fact that it was powered by my phone and relied information being received, processed, then a command sent to the camera caused too much delay for things like lightning, for instance. Running on the camera itself would be crucial. CHDK for canon point and shoots is another example of this that I have played with that works well.

-Utilizing more computational "smart" features, but like astrotracer and jpeg processing are always optional and by default off. In the end, the photographer is in control and chooses the tools they use, not like some of these phones that force you to use xyz and there's no option to turn it off. By this I envision tools that use computation to speed up a photographers workflow, where parameters can be fine tuned to the photographers needs. For instance, I can see more intelligent astro, ND, and HDR modes. Would this be as good as doing all those things completely manually? Probably not, but if you can get me 90% there without the work and extra software and specialized software skills, and save the raw files just in case I wanted to do it myself, yeah, I would probably do that most of the time.

Okay, that turned into a less organized post than I thought it would be. Long story short, I really think photography could benefit from the advances in computation, I would love an open platform to develop against, and I'll end with the disclaimer that all of this is cool but at the end of the day I am still shooting 10+ year old Pentax DSLRs and having a blast, so whatever :P
10-30-2019, 10:58 AM - 2 Likes   #33
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All I do with my camera gear is take pictures, on my computer I post process and upload pictures. The reason I use my computer is my 27" and 28" inch screens is that they are what is best for processing. And I view pictures on those screens and my 4k TV. What's that you say I need Android for?

Camera takes pictures. then Computer and 27 inch monitor processes pictures (on MacOS) then View on 19-27 inch monitors or 4K TV.

Insert the Android use into my workflow where it would be an improvement, over anything.
10-30-2019, 12:43 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snapppy Quote
I have pondered this myself and the related question, "when are we going to see the power of computational photography make a leap in dedicated cameras?" It blows me away what smartphones are capable now because of the leaps in computational photography. I'm not talking about the fake bokeh, which almost all the time still seems icky to me. I mean particularly the ability for smarter HDR processing, low light, smart portrait modes and advances in color rendering. I'm not someone who gets excited about "Phone X VS DSLR!" because it's so clear to me they are so different and there are physical limitations. I am also aware that the same things can be done in a traditional camera, most of time better, albeit manually. But it's the possibilities that excite me. The tech in even the most modern cameras today seems drastically outdated compared to these leaps.

I don't know exactly what would be best for merging these two ideas together, but my thoughts are similar to some who have already expressed theirs in this interesting thread (perhaps most interesting is the push back at even the thought.)

-Cameras that look and feel the same

-Powered by an open platform that lets you develop against the camera itself. Sony did something a while back that let you upload 'apps' from an app store for time lapse, etc. But make it open and available all. For instance, I made an app using the Ricoh SDK that turned my K-1 into a motion capture camera, but the fact that it was powered by my phone and relied information being received, processed, then a command sent to the camera caused too much delay for things like lightning, for instance. Running on the camera itself would be crucial. CHDK for canon point and shoots is another example of this that I have played with that works well.

-Utilizing more computational "smart" features, but like astrotracer and jpeg processing are always optional and by default off. In the end, the photographer is in control and chooses the tools they use, not like some of these phones that force you to use xyz and there's no option to turn it off. By this I envision tools that use computation to speed up a photographers workflow, where parameters can be fine tuned to the photographers needs. For instance, I can see more intelligent astro, ND, and HDR modes. Would this be as good as doing all those things completely manually? Probably not, but if you can get me 90% there without the work and extra software and specialized software skills, and save the raw files just in case I wanted to do it myself, yeah, I would probably do that most of the time.

Okay, that turned into a less organized post than I thought it would be. Long story short, I really think photography could benefit from the advances in computation, I would love an open platform to develop against, and I'll end with the disclaimer that all of this is cool but at the end of the day I am still shooting 10+ year old Pentax DSLRs and having a blast, so whatever :P
Well said.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
All I do with my camera gear is take pictures, on my computer I post process and upload pictures. The reason I use my computer is my 27" and 28" inch screens is that they are what is best for processing. And I view pictures on those screens and my 4k TV. What's that you say I need Android for?

Camera takes pictures. then Computer and 27 inch monitor processes pictures (on MacOS) then View on 19-27 inch monitors or 4K TV.

Insert the Android use into my workflow where it would be an improvement, over anything.
I do too Norm, about 98% of what I shoot on the camera is worked on properly at a computer desk outside of the camera. But that's not what this post is about really, or not my intention. The introduction of Android is not about that stuff purely, its about the community or other app developing companies having a go at potentially improving our shooting experience.

To give an example, for a long time mp3 player brands (Sony, Cowon, iRiver, Samsung, Sansa to name a few) would release their models and stock their own UI/firmware. Always there were gaps missing in the features that people wanted. Along came Android and app developers, now we had a guy develop 'Poweramp' who continually updated the app. "You want album art displayed? No problem. You want ID3 embedded lyric displayed during playback? No worries. You want to be able to search for lyrics online during playback, then save them to the file? No worries. You want playlist support? No worries" and the list went on and on till eventually he developed a paid app ($5) that was fulfilling a gap in the market that all the other companies failed to provide. And then other app marker developers saw potential and so there is even more choice now than just Poweramp for a good playback app for music (HiBy etc). Choice is good, and so many of the manufacturers decided to release players running Android as it solves a large problem in terms of features and UI. If they (take Sony for example) have failed to provide a UI with enough features then the user can just go and choose a different app to have that nuance filled.
As I said, I have already witnessed one industry adopt Android as a bonafide option, it didn't seem to fall over like it has in the camera tech world, by all accounts its seems to have been a roaring success, it made me wonder if eventually we'll see a similar transition being made with cameras...

10-30-2019, 01:13 PM   #35
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I walked away from Andoid phones several years ago and never looked back. Why the hell would I want an Android camera? I love my iPhone but I have no desire for an iCamera either, beyond what is already part of my iPhone.
11-01-2019, 01:36 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
What's yuck? Imagine you're holding your Pentax camera right now, it has all the same buttons and dials that you're used to, the menu looks the same, you even navigate the same way. But now... thanks to the community you can choose to upgrade to the next firmware and that has an added a feature of allowing you to hide certain menu items that you feel you never use and are just additional annoyances to scroll by/over. Or... that now... thanks to the community you can upgrade to the newest firmware where they have added the 'Aperture Bracketing Shooting Mode' that currently exists only on the KP. Now you can use it on a K-1 or K3 etc etc.
And you should imagine its downsides - Android is a bloated monstrosity running bloated Java apps. Now, you might want to make the point that all Android versions are just poorly implemented and Pentax somehow would be the only one to do it right In the meanwhile, I have to wait and wait and wait until a quad-core running at well over 1GHz and with 3GB RAM opens a camera application - while even my GR III, needing to extend its lens, starts in under a second.
Besides, there is no community to develop Android specifically for Pentax cameras (no Cyanogenmod), possibly not even more than a few apps not very complex. We'd ask from Pentax to waste time in making it work, then provide updates to the newer versions for nothing. We'd pay for the higher hardware requirements, and decreased performance for nothing.

OTOH I'm all for a Linux-based OS like in the GR III.
11-01-2019, 02:41 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And you should imagine its downsides - Android is a bloated monstrosity running bloated Java apps. Now, you might want to make the point that all Android versions are just poorly implemented and Pentax somehow would be the only one to do it right In the meanwhile, I have to wait and wait and wait until a quad-core running at well over 1GHz and with 3GB RAM opens a camera application - while even my GR III, needing to extend its lens, starts in under a second.
Besides, there is no community to develop Android specifically for Pentax cameras (no Cyanogenmod), possibly not even more than a few apps not very complex. We'd ask from Pentax to waste time in making it work, then provide updates to the newer versions for nothing. We'd pay for the higher hardware requirements, and decreased performance for nothing.

OTOH I'm all for a Linux-based OS like in the GR III.
Valid points. It has to be about implementation, it has to enhance with NO downsides to current experience. Hence my previous statement about the camera having an Android mode that is separate from our current mode/experience, it's a 100% deal breaker to turn a camera on and wait for splash screens and what not.

Really, I am not a techy person (as you can probably tell), the essence of my post was to query why this technological route has seemingly been tried (on cameras), failed, tried again, failed but how on certain other technological platforms (such as phones and DAPS/mp3 players) it's a roaring success. My mind thinks about the latest iterations of smartphone camera apps and I bet a lot of the Face Detection stuff is better, even HDR etc. Instead of Pentax wasting R&D funds trying to develop Animal/Face Detection I wondered if they ported towards Android that much of those features would be easier to implement.

I thought the advantages would be;

1) Superior features
2) Better updates and firmware support (which is pretty much a graveyard for a lot of brands)
3) Better post processing options and internet connectivity for sharing images
4) Better community support


In reality I would be hoping for an experience such as this example;

1) I shoot weddings, I need the camera on ASAP and working as efficiently as possible. I use my cameras Mode 1 which is what we experience now (no difference here).

2) Bride would like 2-3 images quickly posted on mine and her instagram accounts. Rather than WiFi and Image Sync (which is ZZzz....), or digging a small USB C to USB 3 cable + SD Card Reader, I flip my camera to Mode 2 (Android), it takes 1015 secs to boot in, and I can access the images taken and directly upload to Instagram.

3) I'm at home, my cat is doing something cute (but it's an awkward angle to reach at via OVF etc). Mode 1 doesn't have Animal Face Detection (not Pentax supported yet), but via Mode 2 does (via a specialist app developed by community), so despite having to wait 10-15 secs to get into Mode 2 (Android) and start the App up I do still get better shots of my cat doing its cute thing with better ease.

Something along those lines is what I would expect the hybrid kinda experience to give. Maybe Linux is the better alternative? I dunno...

All I'm really saying is it appears smartphones get all the computing power (and even some of the swanky high end mp3 players get some of that too now), yet cameras feel like they still give a presence that is more fitting for the 90's...

11-01-2019, 03:11 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Valid points. It has to be about implementation, it has to enhance with NO downsides to current experience.
There are always downsides, and with Android there are plenty.

And, I'm afraid, it won't work as you hope. A separate Android mode, you mean a different computer running Android inside the camera, interfacing with the camera's main computer yet tightly integrated with its most critical operations?
Yes, I can imagine the Animal/Face Detection app, written in Java by some student - likely using machine learning, and being at most able to detect an animal face after the fact. Nope, not the real time thing you're imagining.
Superior features exists only if people would implement those, something you should not take for granted. Same for updates and firmware, who is going to do that? How about post processing, which isn't a trivial task? Who's going to provide community support?
Instead, you'd burden Ricoh Imaging with more work so they will have less time to do a proper, fully featured firmware

By the way, do you think your cat would still be there after you start the Mode 2?

Last edited by Kunzite; 11-01-2019 at 03:17 PM.
11-01-2019, 03:20 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
There are always downsides, and with Android there are plenty.

And, I'm afraid, it won't work as you hope. A separate Android mode, you mean a different computer running Android inside the camera, interfacing with the camera's main computer yet tightly integrated with its most critical operations?
Yes, I can imagine the Animal/Face Detection app, written in Java by some student - likely using machine learning, and being at most able to detect an animal face after the fact. Nope, not the real time thing you're imagining.
Superior features exists only if people would implement those, something you should not take for granted. Same for updates and firmware, who is going to do that? How about post processing, which isn't a trivial task? Who's going to provide community support?
Instead, you'd burden Ricoh Imaging with more work so they will have less time to do a proper, fully featured firmware

By the way, do you think your cat would still be there after you start the Mode 2?
Yeh my cat is fat and lazy ऴिाी hahaha

And maybe that is why its never been done properly before. Perhaps there is just too much 'real time' necessity with camera technology that it wouldn't work well. Still.. we do seem to see the odd brand have a stab at it, such as this new one from Zeiss...
11-01-2019, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Yeh my cat is fat and lazy ऴिाी hahaha

And maybe that is why its never been done properly before. Perhaps there is just too much 'real time' necessity with camera technology that it wouldn't work well. Still.. we do seem to see the odd brand have a stab at it, such as this new one from Zeiss...
I have a Beagle puppy. In a completely empty room she will find half a dozen to a dozen things to destroy.
Naturally, a camera near her is just another potential chew toy... so I have to be stealthy and fast.

No real time with a loosely coupled secondary computer, and one running Java. Sorry.

If I'm not mistaken, the Zeiss doesn't really exists... as a product you can buy, I mean.
Every Android-based camera I've seen was a disaster from my point of view. OTOH, I might slightly biased against Java and software requiring tons of resources to do nothing much, really; and I might not be a typical smartphone user (have you seen how the number of tabs icon changes, in the mobile Chrome, when you have 100+ tabs open?)
11-07-2019, 01:33 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
It's an interesting possibility. Nikon did try it with the COOLPIX S810c but it did not seem to catch on.

I can think of three issues that might make using Android for ILCs some combination of unpleasant, impossible, or just not likely to gain adoption:

1) Is Android real-time enough? If a phone app stutters occasionally, the user might be annoyed. If an ILC camera app fires the flash after the second curtain starts to close, they will be more than annoyed. Android is written in Java and Java has automatic garbage collection. That's great for developers and for freeing up memory resources in a light weight device. But automatic garbage collection is not something a photographer wants in the middle of a shot.

2) Can Android handle exotic VLIW (very long instruction word) processors? The image processors inside ILCs are not ordinary multi-core CPUs. The Milbeaut processor uses 256 bit instructions that enable it to execute up to 112 instructions per clock cycle. It's a special kind of computer core in which the instruction typically encodes hardware connections between data buses and logic units to do several computations on a single piece of data at once while doing that to several pieces of data. Its' common is specialized signal process system but not general purpose computers. Can the Linux kernel in the core of Android handle that easily or how much R&D woudl it take to fork Android for a version that can? Or maybe camera makers could rewrite all their code to run on ordinary CPUs and GPUs, but that's not going to be cheap.

3) Can Android (and apps) handle complex physical UIs? Android devices typically have the same very simple physical UIs: a touch screen, power button, up/down volume buttons, and a home button. All the phones and tablets pretty much have the same UI elements that are used in the same ways. In contrast, the K-1 has something like 21 physical buttons and 7 selector dials. Other cameras have different numbers of buttons and dials and there's often no analogs between models. The OS, it's APIs, and the apps need to know whats what and provide appropriate functionality to all those elements. Otherwise you'll have apps that do not use most of the buttons and dials on the camera, use them in inconsistent ways, or fail to work on some cameras because that camera lack a third control wheel.

I'm not say it can't be done but those may be some of the obstacles.
1) Have you seen phones lately? The performance these things have is insane. Like 90 Hz screens that are fluid, instantly react to touch without lag at all. I've had the P30 Pro with last years processor, and despite being 60 Hz only, it's insanely fast on tasks that are far more demanding than anything a DSLR has to handle. Android IS written in Java, but it is well optimized. They certainly don't compile the software all the time.

2) The Milbeaut is... well, slow. Smartphones use processors that rival notebook processors from few years ago, or even current ones. They have highly advanced imaging processors which take and combine dozens of photos in an instant to reduce noise, improve dynamic range etc. They support the latest video codecs and features in hardware. Qualcomm ISP Explained - Android Authority Qualcomm Spectra 380 Launched: World's First ISP With Integrated AI

If you were to go for Android, you'd have to use a proper smartphone processor too. IMHO, sticking with stuff like the Milbeaut is holding back cameras at this point.

The smartphone market is highly profitable and competitive. The technology developed for smartphones is far beyond what traditional camera manufacturers have access to, this tech is slowly trickling down to cameras.

3) Why wouldn't Android be capable of that? These are powerful and highly advanced computers.


I think the main benefit from going with smartphone hardware in DSLRs and mirrorless cameras is performance and quality. Just look at the things a smartphone camera is able to do. What image quality they extract from small sensors. The sensor in the Google Pixel phones is pretty meh, but the photos have good dynamic range and are pretty noise free and detailed. the P30 Pro takes photos with multiple cameras with different focal lengths and combines them seamlessly. It recognizes when you take a photo of the moon and substitutes it with a higher resolution image. Xiaomis Mi Note 10 takes multiple photos with its 108 MP sensor and combines them into a raw file with higher dynamic range and less noise than the sensor should be able to give you. Most phones are capable of combating rolling shutter when using the electronic image stabilizer - something Pentax isn't able to do with their DSLRs. The P30 Pro (and Sony XZ2, amongst others) reliably recognize what you are taking a photo of in real time. They do multiple exposures with live preview. The Pixel phones take long exposures, adjust for the movement of stars and stacks the photos, while keeping the composition of course. Can your DSLR do that?

Last edited by kadajawi; 11-07-2019 at 01:41 PM.
11-07-2019, 02:03 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
1) Have you seen phones lately? The performance these things have is insane. Like 90 Hz screens that are fluid, instantly react to touch without lag at all. I've had the P30 Pro with last years processor, and despite being 60 Hz only, it's insanely fast on tasks that are far more demanding than anything a DSLR has to handle. Android IS written in Java, but it is well optimized. They certainly don't compile the software all the time.

2) The Milbeaut is... well, slow. Smartphones use processors that rival notebook processors from few years ago, or even current ones. They have highly advanced imaging processors which take and combine dozens of photos in an instant to reduce noise, improve dynamic range etc. They support the latest video codecs and features in hardware. Qualcomm ISP Explained - Android Authority Qualcomm Spectra 380 Launched: World's First ISP With Integrated AI

If you were to go for Android, you'd have to use a proper smartphone processor too. IMHO, sticking with stuff like the Milbeaut is holding back cameras at this point.

The smartphone market is highly profitable and competitive. The technology developed for smartphones is far beyond what traditional camera manufacturers have access to, this tech is slowly trickling down to cameras.

3) Why wouldn't Android be capable of that? These are powerful and highly advanced computers.


I think the main benefit from going with smartphone hardware in DSLRs and mirrorless cameras is performance and quality. Just look at the things a smartphone camera is able to do. What image quality they extract from small sensors. The sensor in the Google Pixel phones is pretty meh, but the photos have good dynamic range and are pretty noise free and detailed. the P30 Pro takes photos with multiple cameras with different focal lengths and combines them seamlessly. It recognizes when you take a photo of the moon and substitutes it with a higher resolution image. Xiaomis Mi Note 10 takes multiple photos with its 108 MP sensor and combines them into a raw file with higher dynamic range and less noise than the sensor should be able to give you. Most phones are capable of combating rolling shutter when using the electronic image stabilizer - something Pentax isn't able to do with their DSLRs. The P30 Pro (and Sony XZ2, amongst others) reliably recognize what you are taking a photo of in real time. They do multiple exposures with live preview. The Pixel phones take long exposures, adjust for the movement of stars and stacks the photos, while keeping the composition of course. Can your DSLR do that?
I think this guy gets my sentiment.

I really only created this thread in wonder, because as I stated to begin with that more and more high end audiophile mp3 players/DAPs have gone the route of Android as their OS rather than continually disappointing their customer base with their often quirky, feature lacking and buggy UI.

If this thread was maybe even 2-3yrs old I think many of these points would be valid, but as kadajawi is mentioning today's flagship phones are incredible computers for their physical size/foot prints. I don't want a phone screen and no dials, I believe the right recipe for success is to combine the best of these two worlds. Dials and tactile buttons are necessary (it was one of the first criticism of the first mp3 players to start pushing out Android, they did away with basic buttons like Play, Pause, Skip and Volume etc), so Android in dslr can't be replacing anything (other than OS), it needs to be supplementing.

IMO there are many failings of our current cameras, not just Pentax flagships. Wifi is a dead feature to me, I've used Image Sync a few times and its hugely disappointing everytime. A faster much less painful experience for transferring files to phone or tablet is to simply eject the card, use a small usb3 5cm cable, sd card reader and go. If using the camera remotely then I have more success in trusting the Face Detection app and a remote trigger (like the vello wireless remote) vs the app. Again, quicker and more accurate (and also more features as I think Single frame shooting mode is a limit with Image Sync, anything beyond that and it cries).

This selfie for example done with a remote and not a phone;



One of the few times I had to use the Image Sync app for a shot was this pic here;



I would have been quicker to trust in some kind of auto AF mode of the K-1, or simply hang a piece of string from the ceiling with a coin sellotaped dangling at the other end, manual focus on the coin and then place my hand to the same focal plane as the coin. I cannot tell you how horrible that shoot was to get a good shot with Image Sync!

So yeah, WiFi+Image Sync is a terrible implementation of technology, can't help feeling Android + other apps/community development would help solve many of these issues.

I'm pretty sure its inevitable, give it 5yrs and I think you will at least see the top tier camera brands embrace Android as their OS and it being a success, I just can't think this tech advancement (that we have in phones) will be ignored in the dslr market, in fact I bet its in development right now and a race for the Canikony to release a camera being hailed as the first that's 'doing it right'.
11-07-2019, 04:33 PM - 2 Likes   #43
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All we need is to have our cameras get hijacked to mine cryptocurrency or send adds to Facebook (Yeah I know I am not displaying the new "Branding")

No, embedded systems do not require general purpose OS's.
11-07-2019, 06:12 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
1) Have you seen phones lately? The performance these things have is insane. Like 90 Hz screens that are fluid, instantly react to touch without lag at all. I've had the P30 Pro with last years processor, and despite being 60 Hz only, it's insanely fast on tasks that are far more demanding than anything a DSLR has to handle. Android IS written in Java, but it is well optimized. They certainly don't compile the software all the time.

2) The Milbeaut is... well, slow. Smartphones use processors that rival notebook processors from few years ago, or even current ones. They have highly advanced imaging processors which take and combine dozens of photos in an instant to reduce noise, improve dynamic range etc. They support the latest video codecs and features in hardware. Qualcomm ISP Explained - Android Authority Qualcomm Spectra 380 Launched: World's First ISP With Integrated AI

If you were to go for Android, you'd have to use a proper smartphone processor too. IMHO, sticking with stuff like the Milbeaut is holding back cameras at this point.

The smartphone market is highly profitable and competitive. The technology developed for smartphones is far beyond what traditional camera manufacturers have access to, this tech is slowly trickling down to cameras.

3) Why wouldn't Android be capable of that? These are powerful and highly advanced computers.


I think the main benefit from going with smartphone hardware in DSLRs and mirrorless cameras is performance and quality. Just look at the things a smartphone camera is able to do. What image quality they extract from small sensors. The sensor in the Google Pixel phones is pretty meh, but the photos have good dynamic range and are pretty noise free and detailed. the P30 Pro takes photos with multiple cameras with different focal lengths and combines them seamlessly. It recognizes when you take a photo of the moon and substitutes it with a higher resolution image. Xiaomis Mi Note 10 takes multiple photos with its 108 MP sensor and combines them into a raw file with higher dynamic range and less noise than the sensor should be able to give you. Most phones are capable of combating rolling shutter when using the electronic image stabilizer - something Pentax isn't able to do with their DSLRs. The P30 Pro (and Sony XZ2, amongst others) reliably recognize what you are taking a photo of in real time. They do multiple exposures with live preview. The Pixel phones take long exposures, adjust for the movement of stars and stacks the photos, while keeping the composition of course. Can your DSLR do that?
You raise many good points.

1) In computing there are many kinds of "fast." Yes, Android on modern smartphone hardware is "fast" in throughput but that does not mean it can guarantee that it will always perform some task within some number of microseconds. Human perceptions of latency are probably 100X slower than that required for the internals of a MILC or DSLR camera. True real-time computing isn't about blazing speed, it's about strict control of the machine's resources to guarantee that things ALWAYS happen within some time frame. Android's version of Linux and Android's version of Java are not suited for true real time apps (see Real-time Android: real possibility, really really hard to do - or just plain impossible? - Embedded.com if you want more gory details). Of course, camera makers could fork Android, replace the Linux kernel and replace the current version Java but that would probably break compatibility with all those Android apps that likely depend things the way they are and create a maintenance nightmare every time a new version of Android comes out and any changes need to be replicated in the camera version of Android.

2) Milbeaut is slow in some ways but is fast in others (it can do 112 operations per clock cycle per core). Overall, you are right that it does need an upgrade. But it's possible that upgrade might be a next generation Milbeaut Image Signal Processor which are being used in mobile phones. Again, it's about the different kinds of "fast" in computers -- sometimes specialized circuits are much faster at specialized tasks than general-purpose CPUs and they are much much lower in power.

3) Why would a OS optimized for touchscreen phones and tablets (Android) have built-in support complex multi-button, multi-dial UIs? There's not reason they would. But the bigger issue is on the app developer side because every camera body is different. Unless the app is super simple (using only the shutter button and one e-dial), it probably wouldn't work on many models. And the reason app developers are willing to develop stuff is they know their app might be useful to the billion or so people on Android. If the total user population is only the 100,000 that use a particular model of camera with a particular layout of buttons, dials, and screens, there's less room for revenues.
11-07-2019, 06:39 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Ahh interesting..



No, I'm not. If you read my post you will see your argument is thin because the mp3/DAP market is already on board with Android and these players are not trying to replace your phone at all. And they may run behind iterations of Android but don't ever mistake the idea that people don't want to upgrade! It could even be another incentive for camera manufacturers to be releasing their cameras running Android as it's another reasons to keep churning out a new camera every year or two to continue supporting sales. No camera manufacturer wants you to buy their product and not rebuy again for 5yrs lol.

This is purely about the OS that the camera is built around, why are Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Fuji, Canon, Olympus... why are they all propriety? Why have none of them thought it a good idea to embrace Android, in terms of 'features' they would have a massive advantage over their competitors. The level of customisation for their cameras would be a massive selling point. Heck... you could dumb the camera down if you wanted and streamline you menus. The possibilities are endless...
To be clear, a camera, espiacially a dslr is a relatively high performance image processor, and to load it down with an android operating system will reduce the overall performance.

Remember a camera is first and foremost a camera not a global entertainment and communications platform. Also consider as others have cited, the lifespan, while I do have a K1 MKII I still use all of my bodies back to my *istD which is now 16 up years old. Many anderioid platforms like apple devices become obsolete and almost unusable because the media criteria for web applications rapidly outpaces the hardware, but a camera still takes pictures.

Suck it up and use either the USB cord or a card reader to upload or use your picks on your Android or iDevices and get on with enjoying the camera.
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