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11-14-2019, 02:54 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I was shooting DNG. I don't know how that relieves me of processing capture data to an image format (e.g. TIFF, JPEG, etc.), but it is enough to say that I had my best success with this approach processing to linear TIFF using dcraw.


Steve
Using Lightroom / Darktable / Apple Photos on the desktop, or Darkroom / Raw Power on mobile (iPad), you don't convert the file to anything. You just work directly with the DNG. I am under the impression that many other modern programs work the same way.

11-14-2019, 04:32 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure. I have said for a long time that EVFs are probably more useful to people who do a minimum of post processing and are dependent on straight out of camera jpegs. Because that's approximately what you see in the viewfinder.

If you are someone who has their own presets they use in Lightroom, even if the presets are pretty basic, then an EVF is not truly what you see is what you get. EVFs are fine, but sometimes it seems as though people are grasping at straws for why they are "better" than OVFs. I would just say they have a different set of strengths and weaknesses.
There are only 3 things that I don't like when comes to EVFs:
1. It gives me headaches. This is a problem that seems to become less and less important because the more I use the EVF, the headaches become less prezent.
2. They have a lag that in some situations with fast action involved it may cause missing shots.
3. I have to have camera on all the time to view the scene in the viewfinder

Other than that... With EVF I do like the fact that:
- I don't have to bring with me my LCD screen magnifier to view in bright days if my images are in focus or correctly exposed
- I don't have to guess anymore how much I have to underexpose or overexpose an image (I'm not chimping anymore)
- I have lots of informations in viewfinder that I can enable or disable based on my needs

I don't shoot landscapes at all despite the fact that I spend a lot of time in nature with some very good landscape photographers. They are mostly shooting on tripod and they change the settings in live view so for them it's not a big deal if their camera has an EVF or OVF. In the end, both have pros and cons. The good thing when comes to EVFs is that they get better and better with each new release while OVFs don't get any improvements.
11-14-2019, 05:14 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There are only 3 things that I don't like when comes to EVFs:
1. It gives me headaches. This is a problem that seems to become less and less important because the more I use the EVF, the headaches become less prezent.
2. They have a lag that in some situations with fast action involved it may cause missing shots.
3. I have to have camera on all the time to view the scene in the viewfinder

Other than that... With EVF I do like the fact that:
- I don't have to bring with me my LCD screen magnifier to view in bright days if my images are in focus or correctly exposed
- I don't have to guess anymore how much I have to underexpose or overexpose an image (I'm not chimping anymore)
- I have lots of informations in viewfinder that I can enable or disable based on my needs

I don't shoot landscapes at all despite the fact that I spend a lot of time in nature with some very good landscape photographers. They are mostly shooting on tripod and they change the settings in live view so for them it's not a big deal if their camera has an EVF or OVF. In the end, both have pros and cons. The good thing when comes to EVFs is that they get better and better with each new release while OVFs don't get any improvements.
For landscapes, a tiltable screen is more handy than either an OVF or EVF as you are often at odd angles and it saves your back a lot...

As for EVFs getting better and better, they sort of have to. The initial ones were pretty abysmal. Even now, the bottom tier MILCs don't have great EVFs. You have to spend a bit to get into a camera that has a better one.
11-14-2019, 06:39 PM - 2 Likes   #34
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I hope that my OP has not been interpreted as a disguised promotion for mirrorless cameras and their EVFs or a comparison with DSLRs.

On the contrary, I am curious whether 'seeing in B&W' through a monochrome EVF provides any kind of enhancement to the picture-creating process. Some folks have said 'no, not really', others have suggested that they have found a benefit, while some are happy to view the scene in colour and decide on B&W during post processing. All good!

Other threads have covered the general MILC-DSLR discussion, so I wanted to be careful to not restart those.

Thanks.

- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 11-14-2019 at 06:47 PM.
11-15-2019, 12:01 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
For landscapes, a tiltable screen is more handy than either an OVF or EVF as you are often at odd angles and it saves your back a lot...
Fortunately, tiltable screens are pretty much standard these days and I'm glad they are because it'a a usefull feature not only for landscape photographers.

---------- Post added 11-15-19 at 07:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I hope that my OP has not been interpreted as a disguised promotion for mirrorless cameras and their EVFs or a comparison with DSLRs.

On the contrary, I am curious whether 'seeing in B&W' through a monochrome EVF provides any kind of enhancement to the picture-creating process. Some folks have said 'no, not really', others have suggested that they have found a benefit, while some are happy to view the scene in colour and decide on B&W during post processing. All good!

Other threads have covered the general MILC-DSLR discussion, so I wanted to be careful to not restart those.

Thanks.

- Craig
I don't see it as a feature that I would ever use mostly because I don't edit images in black and white. It could be handy for some, but this is is true with all the features included in cameras. I haven't used astrotracer or pixel shift for example on my Pentax camera and I haven't used video on none of my cameras. Same with this feature... is useless to me, but there might be some that will see a benefit by having it available in their camera.
11-15-2019, 01:15 AM - 2 Likes   #36
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I have a Sony a6000 and I do use the B&W mode from time to time, which I never did on my DSLRs -- somehow it seems less like cheating than taking a color image and converting to B&W. Even though it's basically the same thing.

I do like the ability to see the pic in B&W right in the viewfinder, because it makes it easier to identify the elements that make a good B&W pic without the distraction of color -- and unlike what Paul Simon told us, some stuff looks better in B&W. Of course, using the viewfinder reduces the ability to "see" in B&W as I sort-of did back in the day.

But what it mostly did was remind me how much I like the simplicity and purity of the B&W photography I used to do -- and it encouraged me to get out my old film camera (Pentax, of course!), buy some film and start shooting again. I miss the mystery of it all -- the time it takes to figure out whether the shot works, and all the thought one puts into it before hitting the shutter button. With any luck, I'll be developing those first rolls in the next couple of weeks so I might just end up back with the Sony.

Meanwhile, a couple of pics I did with the Sony in B&W mode... wasn't trying to do anything special, these are just some snapshots I took on a trip to Utah.





11-15-2019, 01:17 AM   #37
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Setting the EVF to monochrome? Great idea. I wonder if my Samsung NX1 can do that. Lemme check...
11-16-2019, 09:29 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I hope that my OP has not been interpreted as a disguised promotion for mirrorless cameras and their EVFs or a comparison with DSLRs.

On the contrary, I am curious whether 'seeing in B&W' through a monochrome EVF provides any kind of enhancement to the picture-creating process. Some folks have said 'no, not really', others have suggested that they have found a benefit, while some are happy to view the scene in colour and decide on B&W during post processing. All good!

Other threads have covered the general MILC-DSLR discussion, so I wanted to be careful to not restart those.

Thanks.

- Craig
I'm still not able to "see" in my mind's eye what things look like in monochrome, so for me the answer is yes. I have several custom monochrome settings in my X100F for jpgs, and being able to see an approximation in the EVF helps. Others may not find that feature of EVFs of any use.

11-19-2019, 06:48 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Autonerd Quote
[...] and unlike what Paul Simon told us, some stuff looks better in B&W.
A subtle hint towards a great song. Nice.
11-19-2019, 08:53 AM - 3 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
A subtle hint towards a great song. Nice.
That song always makes me smile. I shot an awful lot of that film.
11-20-2019, 01:56 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
That song always makes me smile. I shot an awful lot of that film.
I would love to give it a go one day. It was discontinued around a decade after I was born so I've never had the chance (plus, I've never owned a film camera... yet)!
11-20-2019, 06:08 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
I would love to give it a go one day. It was discontinued around a decade after I was born so I've never had the chance (plus, I've never owned a film camera... yet)!
Sadly I think that dream is never going to happen. Kodachrome required a process that has been dismantled and is impractical at the volume of film use today to restart. Try some Ektachrome in an inexpensive 35mm and enjoy.
11-20-2019, 06:50 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Sadly I think that dream is never going to happen. Kodachrome required a process that has been dismantled and is impractical at the volume of film use today to restart. Try some Ektachrome in an inexpensive 35mm and enjoy.
I just need to grab myself an inexpensive 35mm! Or force some onto my other half, who's recently dug out her Olympus OM-10 having never used it before. She bought it around 7/8 years ago and it's been sat in a box until recently!
11-20-2019, 07:11 AM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
On the contrary, I am curious whether 'seeing in B&W' through a monochrome EVF provides any kind of enhancement to the picture-creating process.
I have tried this but don't really find it much of a help. I guess I'm too used to pre-visualising anyway. Besides, I think StiffLegged has a point:

QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Can the evf be set to monochrome combined with red filter and selenium toning? I do that in post with Nik Silver Efex.
There are so many possible ways to convert an image to b&w. I often make colour adjustments prior to the conversion to better control what happens when applying colour filters etc. The result can be dramatically different from what the in-camera settings will show you in the viewfinder.

Not saying that it can't be of value to some, though. There's more than one way to do it - and none of them are wrong. Well, mostly
11-24-2019, 10:56 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
I just need to grab myself an inexpensive 35mm! Or force some onto my other half, who's recently dug out her Olympus OM-10 having never used it before. She bought it around 7/8 years ago and it's been sat in a box until recently!
Absolutely. And if you like it, consider trying home B&W developing. The supplies you need will probably pay for themselves in about 15-20 rolls.

For all this talk about shooting B&W digital, to bring up another great song, there ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby.
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