Benefit of Mirrorless cameras with EVF -- 'Seeing' in black and white

**c.a.m** · 11-10-2019, 01:36 PM - **2 Likes**

Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm).

She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear.

She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast.

Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene?

I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs.

- Craig

**acoufap** · 11-10-2019, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm).

She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear.

She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast.

Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene?

I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs.

- Craig

Of course this is not possible with an OVF, but you always can choose this way using life view and the monochrome preset.

D1N0 · 11-10-2019, 01:54 PM - **2 Likes**

live view can also be set to monochrome so this can be done on dslr as well

**othar** · 11-10-2019, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm).

She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear.

She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast.

Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene?

I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs.

- Craig

I've heard of this benefit quite some time ago and while I often work in black and white this advantage won't make a selling point for me.
If in doubt I can use LV in B&W too, but most of the time I actually have a good perception how a scene will look in B&W on my own.
Focus peaking in EVF is a nice gadged too but I still prefer the OVF and a longer battery life.

stevebrot · 11-10-2019, 02:07 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by c.a.m

Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene?

I can do this in live view on my K-3 and also on my phone, though there is usually no advantage to doing so even when I know in advance that I will do a monochrome treatment in post. The two photos below are good examples...

On this one ^ ^ ^ I noted the high-valued yellows and golds in contrast against the blue sky before even setting up. The color version has so-so impact, but post processing to take advantage of those points of contrast and glow made for a rather more interesting monochrome image. Using a "canned" monochrome viewfinder treatment would have been detrimental to the process.*

The area in the Mt. St. Helens blast zone is famously lacking in color and also famously rich in texture and topography. On this day, storms were brewing over the main Cascade Range to the east and those bright clouds along with the summit shroud provided a happy accent against the debris plain. This one was easy to visualize as monochrome, mostly because that is the palette of the place.

I should probably mention that I have been doing monochrome photography since the late 1960s and the option of "seeing" in tonal values comes as second nature. I always do a mental evaluation of the range of light, even when the intent is a full color capture.

Steve

* While having this option for the Nikon EVF, might be of limited usefulness to a monochrome digital noob, I am surprised that an experienced pro would call this feature out.

**mlt** · 11-10-2019, 02:45 PM

Anything that helps an individual user is helpful to them, regardless of experience level. Since I see in color, that is what I compose and shoot in. If I see a subject that I know will be better in b&w, then I correct to that in post since all the raws are full color. Still prefer the optical vf as being truer to life though.

**UncleVanya** · 11-10-2019, 02:46 PM

While this is true and I am able to do so on my m43 gear I don't do it. Probably due to years of shooting b&w film. I really think liveview isn't a full answer since I find I compose differently with the viewfinder and the rear lcd.

I do think it might be helpful to develop a b&w eye - but I don't know that it would be a made I'd want to stay in all the time.

Steve Beswick · 11-10-2019, 03:56 PM

If you have an OVF, just get one of the old school yellow filters that slips over the viewfinder tabs, simulating B&W. Well, B&Y, but close enough.

tokyoscape · 11-10-2019, 04:22 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by stevebrot

* While having this option for the Nikon EVF, might be of limited usefulness to a monochrome digital noob, I am surprised that an experienced pro would call this feature out.

Keep in mind, the OP was talking to a brand ambassador. It is their job to promote the heck out of everything under the brand.
I wish Pentax adding more brand ambassador in and outside of Japan. Do it hand in hand with social media campaigns.
by the way, Your photos look good, Stevebrot

stevebrot · 11-10-2019, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by tokyoscape

Keep in mind, the OP was talking to a brand ambassador. It is their job to promote the heck out of everything under the brand.

Yep...I was being a little tongue-in-cheek sarcastic, but know that the intent was to pique the interest of people who are interested in learning the art of monochrome digital conversion such that having a monochrome EVF might tip a decision in favor of their model cameras.

Originally posted by tokyoscape

by the way, Your photos look good, Stevebrot

Thank you! I do a fair amount of monochrome conversion using an old set of Lightroom presets that provide filter and film type emulation. The results are pretty amazing without being full-on film emulation plug-ins.

Steve

**StiffLegged** · 11-11-2019, 12:04 AM

Can the evf be set to monochrome combined with red filter and selenium toning? I do that in post with Nik Silver Efex.

**Rondec** · 11-11-2019, 03:51 AM - **1 Like**

I can't imagine this being of much benefit, particularly if you mostly shoot color images. Also, unless you only use in camera processing, odds are you won't really see the full gamut of what you could do with an image in post. Still, I guess it is another thing that EVFs can do that OVFs can't.

stevebrot · 11-11-2019, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Still, I guess it is another thing that EVFs can do that OVFs can't.

Do you think it might do "Bleach Bypass" too?

Steve

**Rondec** · 11-11-2019, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Do you think it might do "Bleach Bypass" too?

Steve

Sure. I have said for a long time that EVFs are probably more useful to people who do a minimum of post processing and are dependent on straight out of camera jpegs. Because that's approximately what you see in the viewfinder.

If you are someone who has their own presets they use in Lightroom, even if the presets are pretty basic, then an EVF is not truly what you see is what you get. EVFs are fine, but sometimes it seems as though people are grasping at straws for why they are "better" than OVFs. I would just say they have a different set of strengths and weaknesses.

**UncleVanya** · 11-11-2019, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Sure. I have said for a long time that EVFs are probably more useful to people who do a minimum of post processing and are dependent on straight out of camera jpegs. Because that's approximately what you see in the viewfinder.

If you are someone who has their own presets they use in Lightroom, even if the presets are pretty basic, then an EVF is not truly what you see is what you get. EVFs are fine, but sometimes it seems as though people are grasping at straws for why they are "better" than OVFs. I would just say they have a different set of strengths and weaknesses.

Evf dynamic range is a far cry from print or even typical monitors I thought? I wonder if the in evf view would be misleading.

11-10-2019, 01:36 PM - 2 Likes	#1
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,188	Benefit of Mirrorless cameras with EVF -- 'Seeing' in black and white Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm). She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear. She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast. Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene? I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs. - Craig

11-10-2019, 02:07 PM - 3 Likes	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by c.a.m Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene? I can do this in live view on my K-3 and also on my phone, though there is usually no advantage to doing so even when I know in advance that I will do a monochrome treatment in post. The two photos below are good examples... On this one ^ ^ ^ I noted the high-valued yellows and golds in contrast against the blue sky before even setting up. The color version has so-so impact, but post processing to take advantage of those points of contrast and glow made for a rather more interesting monochrome image. Using a "canned" monochrome viewfinder treatment would have been detrimental to the process.* The area in the Mt. St. Helens blast zone is famously lacking in color and also famously rich in texture and topography. On this day, storms were brewing over the main Cascade Range to the east and those bright clouds along with the summit shroud provided a happy accent against the debris plain. This one was easy to visualize as monochrome, mostly because that is the palette of the place. I should probably mention that I have been doing monochrome photography since the late 1960s and the option of "seeing" in tonal values comes as second nature. I always do a mental evaluation of the range of light, even when the intent is a full color capture. Steve * While having this option for the Nikon EVF, might be of limited usefulness to a monochrome digital noob, I am surprised that an experienced pro would call this feature out. Last edited by stevebrot; 11-10-2019 at 02:17 PM. Reason: grammar

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11-10-2019, 01:49 PM	#2
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,184	Originally posted by c.a.m Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm). She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear. She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast. Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene? I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs. - Craig Of course this is not possible with an OVF, but you always can choose this way using life view and the monochrome preset.

11-10-2019, 01:54 PM - 2 Likes	#3
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	live view can also be set to monochrome so this can be done on dslr as well

11-10-2019, 01:58 PM	#4
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by c.a.m Last week, I attended a talk by Michelle Valberg, a Photographer in Residence at the Royal Canadian Geographical Society. She is an acclaimed Canadian wildlife and nature photographer. As a Nikon Ambassador, she uses the Z7 and Z6 mirrorless cameras and several high-end lenses (e.g., Nikon 800mm). She presented some her recent work, complemented with anecdotes and references to her camera gear. She remarked that her mirrorless camera offers her a new way of working in black and white -- the viewfinder display can be set to monochrome, so she can 'see in black and white' in real time as she composes. Without colour in the viewfinder, she can more easily 'think' in B&W and concentrate on traditional B&W features such as shapes and contrast. Has anyone here found a similar benefit with a mirrorless camera -- working directly in a B&W scene? I found this interesting, as this feature is often not mentioned in discussions concerning the benefits of mirrorless vs DSLRs. - Craig I've heard of this benefit quite some time ago and while I often work in black and white this advantage won't make a selling point for me. If in doubt I can use LV in B&W too, but most of the time I actually have a good perception how a scene will look in B&W on my own. Focus peaking in EVF is a nice gadged too but I still prefer the OVF and a longer battery life.

11-10-2019, 02:45 PM	#6
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Anything that helps an individual user is helpful to them, regardless of experience level. Since I see in color, that is what I compose and shoot in. If I see a subject that I know will be better in b&w, then I correct to that in post since all the raws are full color. Still prefer the optical vf as being truer to life though.

11-10-2019, 02:46 PM	#7
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,385	While this is true and I am able to do so on my m43 gear I don't do it. Probably due to years of shooting b&w film. I really think liveview isn't a full answer since I find I compose differently with the viewfinder and the rear lcd. I do think it might be helpful to develop a b&w eye - but I don't know that it would be a made I'd want to stay in all the time.

11-10-2019, 03:56 PM	#8
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	If you have an OVF, just get one of the old school yellow filters that slips over the viewfinder tabs, simulating B&W. Well, B&Y, but close enough.

11-10-2019, 04:22 PM - 3 Likes	#9
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	Originally posted by stevebrot * While having this option for the Nikon EVF, might be of limited usefulness to a monochrome digital noob, I am surprised that an experienced pro would call this feature out. Keep in mind, the OP was talking to a brand ambassador. It is their job to promote the heck out of everything under the brand. I wish Pentax adding more brand ambassador in and outside of Japan. Do it hand in hand with social media campaigns. by the way, Your photos look good, Stevebrot

11-10-2019, 08:02 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tokyoscape Keep in mind, the OP was talking to a brand ambassador. It is their job to promote the heck out of everything under the brand. Yep...I was being a little tongue-in-cheek sarcastic, but know that the intent was to pique the interest of people who are interested in learning the art of monochrome digital conversion such that having a monochrome EVF might tip a decision in favor of their model cameras. Originally posted by tokyoscape by the way, Your photos look good, Stevebrot Thank you! I do a fair amount of monochrome conversion using an old set of Lightroom presets that provide filter and film type emulation. The results are pretty amazing without being full-on film emulation plug-ins. Steve

11-11-2019, 12:04 AM	#11
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,610	Can the evf be set to monochrome combined with red filter and selenium toning? I do that in post with Nik Silver Efex.

11-11-2019, 03:51 AM - 1 Like	#12
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	I can't imagine this being of much benefit, particularly if you mostly shoot color images. Also, unless you only use in camera processing, odds are you won't really see the full gamut of what you could do with an image in post. Still, I guess it is another thing that EVFs can do that OVFs can't.

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11-11-2019, 05:10 AM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Rondec Still, I guess it is another thing that EVFs can do that OVFs can't. Do you think it might do "Bleach Bypass" too? Steve

11-11-2019, 06:15 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by stevebrot Do you think it might do "Bleach Bypass" too? Steve Sure. I have said for a long time that EVFs are probably more useful to people who do a minimum of post processing and are dependent on straight out of camera jpegs. Because that's approximately what you see in the viewfinder. If you are someone who has their own presets they use in Lightroom, even if the presets are pretty basic, then an EVF is not truly what you see is what you get. EVFs are fine, but sometimes it seems as though people are grasping at straws for why they are "better" than OVFs. I would just say they have a different set of strengths and weaknesses.

11-11-2019, 08:17 AM	#15
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,385	Originally posted by Rondec Sure. I have said for a long time that EVFs are probably more useful to people who do a minimum of post processing and are dependent on straight out of camera jpegs. Because that's approximately what you see in the viewfinder. If you are someone who has their own presets they use in Lightroom, even if the presets are pretty basic, then an EVF is not truly what you see is what you get. EVFs are fine, but sometimes it seems as though people are grasping at straws for why they are "better" than OVFs. I would just say they have a different set of strengths and weaknesses. Evf dynamic range is a far cry from print or even typical monitors I thought? I wonder if the in evf view would be misleading.