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12-22-2019, 01:01 PM - 4 Likes   #1
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Don't be afraid to suck -- inspirational Joe Edelman talk at camera club

Why shouldn't we be inspired by an Olympus Visionary who gave a pretty entertaining, instructive, and motivational talk at a camera club in Bethlehem, PA, of all places?

Thought I might as well post a link here since I found it kinda fun and worthwhile to watch:



12-22-2019, 03:19 PM   #2
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Now that was downright interesting! Thanks for the link. Now if you will excuse me, I am going to go run up the shutter count on my K1
12-22-2019, 03:47 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I marked that as I do want to watch it sometime when I have time.

I've been increasingly afraid of even posting my pictures as I sense that I'm getting worse as a photographer and not better. It could be that I'm just not shooting enough...
12-22-2019, 04:34 PM - 3 Likes   #4
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I am utterly fearless.







12-22-2019, 06:02 PM - 3 Likes   #5
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I personally disagree with the "ignore the rules" statement. As Twyla Tharp (the choreographer) said "In order to think outside the box, you need to understand the box." Most of the time when people do not understand the principles of composition, they produce trite, boring, repetitive "saying on auto" content. Otherwise an interesting talk. I really liked the part about "likes" being meaningless - they will not lead to buying food or paying rent.
12-23-2019, 06:13 AM   #6
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Thanks for sharing this; I'm no longer afraid to suck!
12-23-2019, 07:17 AM   #7
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Not good. You can take tons of pictures and never get anything compelling, quantity of trial and error has nothing to do with the result. Trial and error doesn't get you anywhere if you don't have an idee of the kind of photograph you want to achieve first. Creating a photograph that stands out , starts with visualizing the kind of photograph you aim at (what kind of element you want in a photograph), then figure out the list of conditions required: where to go, when to go, what time to go.

---------- Post added 23-12-19 at 15:28 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
I personally disagree with the "ignore the rules" statement. As Twyla Tharp (the choreographer) said "In order to think outside the box, you need to understand the box." Most of the time when people do not understand the principles of composition, they produce trite, boring, repetitive "saying on auto" content. Otherwise an interesting talk. I really liked the part about "likes" being meaningless - they will not lead to buying food or paying rent.
I totally agree on this. In professions, you'll always have people who claim that education is not necessary (usually people who don't have education will claim that education is not necessary when in competition for job positions). That's utter BS, no one would want to be a passenger on a flight knowing the pilot is new and learning by trial & error. In order to fly a commercial aircraft, you better know the rules, understand the rules, and follow the rules, and have thousand of hours of flying experience on top of it.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-23-2019 at 07:28 AM.
12-23-2019, 08:10 AM - 2 Likes   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
In professions, you'll always have people who claim that education is not necessary (usually people who don't have education will claim that education is not necessary when in competition for job positions). That's utter BS, no one would want to be a passenger on a flight knowing the pilot is new and learning by trial & error. In order to fly a commercial aircraft, you better know the rules, understand the rules, and follow the rules, and have thousand of hours of flying experience on top of it.

While PDL's point about knowing the box as a useful first step before thinking outside of it makes immediate sense to me, I think you're invoking a false analogy here. Flying a plane is fundamentally different from a creative endeavour, not least because people's lives are at stake if you don't know or follow the rules.

12-23-2019, 09:19 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
I personally disagree with the "ignore the rules" statement. As Twyla Tharp (the choreographer) said "In order to think outside the box, you need to understand the box." Most of the time when people do not understand the principles of composition, they produce trite, boring, repetitive "saying on auto" content. Otherwise an interesting talk. I really liked the part about "likes" being meaningless - they will not lead to buying food or paying rent.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I totally agree on this. In professions, you'll always have people who claim that education is not necessary (usually people who don't have education will claim that education is not necessary when in competition for job positions). That's utter BS, no one would want to be a passenger on a flight knowing the pilot is new and learning by trial & error. In order to fly a commercial aircraft, you better know the rules, understand the rules, and follow the rules, and have thousand of hours of flying experience on top of it.
I too think this is true. A lot of great painters got their start learning how to replicate the techniques of their predecessors: learning the "rules" as a baseline for rewriting or breaking them.

That said, I took "don't be afraid to suck" as 'everyone's got to start somewhere' and 'you won't improve without practice'. This philosophy is not limited to photography.
12-23-2019, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Great video! A good motivational speech, that can be applied to a lot in life. I haven't been shooting as much lately, because I'm looking for that "epic" shot...that I'll never sell or publish anyway.

I'm already taking more pictures today. Got me out of my slump.
01-03-2020, 06:32 AM   #11
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Thank you so much for sharing this video on the forums.
Inspirational, educational, fun and well worth the viewing in my opinion. It has helped me a lot.
01-03-2020, 07:36 AM - 3 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I've been increasingly afraid of even posting my pictures as I sense that I'm getting worse as a photographer and not better.
I am reminded of a graph I saw (one such example posted here) of a new photographers PERCEIVED skill and ACTUAL skill/ability. In simple terms, when you know little, you think you are better than you are. As you learn the medium/discipline, you also start understanding what lack of skill you may have, and you may also be over critical. Keep going and you get better on both! So, yes, post your images and let us give you feedback. You are only going to get better because of it! PS- And if you know what you want to achieve with an image, and achieved that, then don't be discouraged if others don't see your vision of it!
01-03-2020, 08:04 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigDave Quote
I am reminded of a graph I saw (one such example posted here) of a new photographers PERCEIVED skill and ACTUAL skill/ability. In simple terms, when you know little, you think you are better than you are. As you learn the medium/discipline, you also start understanding what lack of skill you may have, and you may also be over critical. Keep going and you get better on both! So, yes, post your images and let us give you feedback. You are only going to get better because of it! PS- And if you know what you want to achieve with an image, and achieved that, then don't be discouraged if others don't see your vision of it!
So true BigDave! Having been in the studio/gallery photography business for 20 twenty years I can relate! Looking back at early work is an eye opener. The progression in the equality of work is there, but we become much more critical of our work also. Just keep working toward your vision. Learn a new skill and enjoy the voyage
01-03-2020, 09:02 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigDave Quote
I am reminded of a graph I saw (one such example posted here) of a new photographers PERCEIVED skill and ACTUAL skill/ability. In simple terms, when you know little, you think you are better than you are. As you learn the medium/discipline, you also start understanding what lack of skill you may have, and you may also be over critical. Keep going and you get better on both! So, yes, post your images and let us give you feedback. You are only going to get better because of it! PS- And if you know what you want to achieve with an image, and achieved that, then don't be discouraged if others don't see your vision of it!
I totally understand what you are saying, and you are absolutely right.

But in my case, I had been looking at pictures I took way, 3-4 years ago and even further back, and I like them better than the stuff I'm doing now...
I think it's what in music we used to call "2nd album decline" - a band puts all their effort of years into their first album, then sort of coasts into the 2nd album and doesn't put as much effort - first because they didn't spend as much time on it, second because they don't challenge themselves as they did in the beginning.
We should always be challenging ourselves otherwise our work becomes stagnant... not to mention in the beginning we are more "wide eyed and mystified" and amazed at the things we can do... that is more what I was talking about. I got to get that passion back.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Not good. You can take tons of pictures and never get anything compelling, quantity of trial and error has nothing to do with the result. Trial and error doesn't get you anywhere if you don't have an idee of the kind of photograph you want to achieve first. Creating a photograph that stands out , starts with visualizing the kind of photograph you aim at (what kind of element you want in a photograph), then figure out the list of conditions required: where to go, when to go, what time to go.[COLOR=Silver]
What you describe is basically the ideal setting of landscape photography, which I realize a lot of people here do.
Well some kinds of photography are more reactive than planned. Street photography, for example, or travel photography to a point (especially when you're traveling with family). You go to a place you haven't been before so even if you think you know the place from researching it, you get there and sort of have to create your game plan right then. The more time you have to look at all the different angles the better - but you're doing this as light is changing, or might not be ideal to start with.
A lot of photography is reaction to what you have to work with, trying to do your best with the cards you are dealt, so to speak.

QuoteQuote:
I totally agree on this. In professions, you'll always have people who claim that education is not necessary (usually people who don't have education will claim that education is not necessary when in competition for job positions). That's utter BS, no one would want to be a passenger on a flight knowing the pilot is new and learning by trial & error. In order to fly a commercial aircraft, you better know the rules, understand the rules, and follow the rules, and have thousand of hours of flying experience on top of it.
Sorry but that's a strawman if I've ever seen one...
01-03-2020, 09:34 AM   #15
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Nice !
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