Sony Reportedly ‘Can’t Make Enough’ Image Sensors to Keep Up With Demand

bobmaxja · 12-27-2019, 04:26 PM

Here another news

Sony to invest nearly $1 billion building new image sensor plant

Aims to increase global marketshare to 60%

You can read the details here
https://sonyreconsidered.com/sony-to-invest-nearly-1-billion-building-new-im...t-ef090187e414

---------- Post added 27th Dec 2019 at 18:28 ----------

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

Do we know for sure that Sony doesn't have a separate factory for camera sensors?

Oups , they have more than one plant I just found out
Seem no d edicated plant. They have 4 plants
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/company/base/

Quote:

Sony’s vast Kumamoto Technology Center.

A staggering four million sensors a day are produced for a wide range of imaging products

Home to the Sony Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation, the Center produces a staggering four million sensors a day for a wide range of imaging products. Many will find their way into Sony-badged cameras and smartphones like the Alpha A7R III, Cyber-shot RX10 IV and Xperia XZ1, while others are destined for a host of cameras and devices from other brands that rely on Sony for their sensors.
https://www.techradar.com/news/a-rare-glimpse-inside-sonys-giant-kumamoto-sensor-factory

Last edited by bobmaxja; 12-27-2019 at 04:42 PM.

**Apet-Sure** · 12-27-2019, 04:33 PM - **1 Like**

They will need that new $1 billion building for all the sensors for the K-new camera that they'll need to make!

**luftfluss** · 12-27-2019, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by house

Just wish Sony had more and better competition. Our world is getting ridiculously centralised. They are so few manufacturers/providers of any given thing globally. Soviet russia had more real variation than we do in several areas.

If you don't want a camera with a Sony sensor, there is Canon, Panasonic, and Sigma.

**boriscleto** · 12-27-2019, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

Do we know for sure that Sony doesn't have a separate factory for camera sensors?

This list shows of 3 Sony's fabs make CMOS Image Sensors.

List of semiconductor fabrication plants - Wikipedia

**luftfluss** · 12-27-2019, 04:55 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Serkevan

Foodstuffs are the most egregious example, I think. Media is ridiculous as well. Electronics (or tech in general -take your pick of AMD or Intel/nVidia) yet another example. So much for the free market...

It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion

Imp · 12-27-2019, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion

^

good place to leave it

biz-engineer · 12-28-2019, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion

I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke.

hypermodern · 12-28-2019, 01:26 AM

I don’t know much about this, presumably advances in phone sensors are driving advances in larger “camera” sensors at this point?

**luftfluss** · 12-28-2019, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke.

I don't own a Sony camera, but I have read comments about the ergonomics and build quality not being so good. OTOH I think the ergonomics for using a smartphone camera to be awful, yet billions of people like it just fine.

Since I bought my Pentax K100D in 2007, it has been my observation that Pentax DSLR apparent build quality is consistently above other brands at the same price point. A couple years ago I used a Nikon D7100 and it had more flex in the body than my K-5 II. Earlier this year I owned a Fuji X-T20, and found my K-70 more comfortable and also feeling like a higher quality instrument.

The tactile sensation of the gear means a great deal to me.

**UncleVanya** · 12-28-2019, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke.

While I agree in most respects with the sentiment, the comment about the mode dial is confusing and to me not a real issue.

**luftfluss** · 12-28-2019, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by hypermodern

I don’t know much about this, presumably advances in phone sensors are driving advances in larger “camera” sensors at this point?

It makes sense, the phone market is huge and there is much advertising about image quality differences in smartphone cameras. It seems like there is a greater drive for advertising to promote features in the ILC world instead of all-out image quality.

Of course, some folks are still swayed by large megapickel counts...

house · 12-28-2019, 09:29 AM

What I meant asking for competition to Sony is that sensor tech development is a bit slow at the moment. All focus seems to be on focus and other milc features. I'm sure more competition would be good for price as well as features.

biz-engineer · 12-28-2019, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

OTOH I think the ergonomics for using a smartphone camera to be awful, yet billions of people like it just fine.

I find phone easier to use than a camera, super easy, not a 100 list menu of a Sony A7 to go through to set the camera for a shot.

house · 12-28-2019, 09:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I find phone easier to use than a camera, super easy, not a 100 list menu of a Sony A7 to go through to set the camera for a shot.

But it's the actual handling that's the issue. Have you set up a physical button for your phone camera? I find the process and physical handling of phones as cameras really annoying. I do realise that you can learn to like almost anything if you practice enough.

biz-engineer · 12-28-2019, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

the comment about the mode dial is confusing and to me not a real issue

Not an issue, just manufacturing cost saving on a $3500 made in china... that's embarassing. Generally I can believe customers accepting the build quality at the price they pay for cameras. Imagine, the Z7 battery door is held by two bits of plastic and it breaks very easily, prices slowly increased, quality decreased, customer got used to it (like the story of a fog in water not realizing the water slowly gets warmer and warmer to the point the frog can jump out).

12-27-2019, 04:26 PM	#16
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171 Original Poster	Here another news Sony to invest nearly $1 billion building new image sensor plant Aims to increase global marketshare to 60% You can read the details here https://sonyreconsidered.com/sony-to-invest-nearly-1-billion-building-new-im...t-ef090187e414 ---------- Post added 27th Dec 2019 at 18:28 ---------- Originally posted by Apet-Sure Do we know for sure that Sony doesn't have a separate factory for camera sensors? Oups , they have more than one plant I just found out Seem no d edicated plant. They have 4 plants https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/company/base/ Quote: Sony’s vast Kumamoto Technology Center. A staggering four million sensors a day are produced for a wide range of imaging products Home to the Sony Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation, the Center produces a staggering four million sensors a day for a wide range of imaging products. Many will find their way into Sony-badged cameras and smartphones like the Alpha A7R III, Cyber-shot RX10 IV and Xperia XZ1, while others are destined for a host of cameras and devices from other brands that rely on Sony for their sensors. https://www.techradar.com/news/a-rare-glimpse-inside-sonys-giant-kumamoto-sensor-factory Last edited by bobmaxja; 12-27-2019 at 04:42 PM.

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12-27-2019, 04:33 PM - 1 Like	#17
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,861	They will need that new $1 billion building for all the sensors for the K-new camera that they'll need to make!

12-27-2019, 04:45 PM	#18
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by house Just wish Sony had more and better competition. Our world is getting ridiculously centralised. They are so few manufacturers/providers of any given thing globally. Soviet russia had more real variation than we do in several areas. If you don't want a camera with a Sony sensor, there is Canon, Panasonic, and Sigma.

12-27-2019, 04:53 PM	#19
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by Apet-Sure Do we know for sure that Sony doesn't have a separate factory for camera sensors? This list shows of 3 Sony's fabs make CMOS Image Sensors. List of semiconductor fabrication plants - Wikipedia

12-27-2019, 04:55 PM - 2 Likes	#20
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by Serkevan Foodstuffs are the most egregious example, I think. Media is ridiculous as well. Electronics (or tech in general -take your pick of AMD or Intel/nVidia) yet another example. So much for the free market... It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion

12-27-2019, 05:48 PM	#21
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by luftfluss It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion ^ good place to leave it

12-28-2019, 12:02 AM	#22
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by luftfluss It's actually the free market (such as it is) that allows this to happen. Not sure how much can be said without careening too close to political discussion I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke.

12-28-2019, 01:26 AM	#23
hypermodern Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 131	I don’t know much about this, presumably advances in phone sensors are driving advances in larger “camera” sensors at this point?

12-28-2019, 07:52 AM	#24
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by biz-engineer I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke. I don't own a Sony camera, but I have read comments about the ergonomics and build quality not being so good. OTOH I think the ergonomics for using a smartphone camera to be awful, yet billions of people like it just fine. Since I bought my Pentax K100D in 2007, it has been my observation that Pentax DSLR apparent build quality is consistently above other brands at the same price point. A couple years ago I used a Nikon D7100 and it had more flex in the body than my K-5 II. Earlier this year I owned a Fuji X-T20, and found my K-70 more comfortable and also feeling like a higher quality instrument. The tactile sensation of the gear means a great deal to me.

12-28-2019, 07:55 AM	#25
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by biz-engineer I don't have anything against Sony sensors as long as they are very good sensors. I'm more concerned about Sony cameras, that I find poor implementation of a camera , yet heavily promoted and gaining market share , is not a fair play of the free market. There is free market, and the goodness of free market can turn to unethical use of brainwashing. The Sony high end cameras are built like entry level Pentax, with the mode dial on right side of the viewfinder, what a joke. While I agree in most respects with the sentiment, the comment about the mode dial is confusing and to me not a real issue.

12-28-2019, 07:56 AM	#26
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by hypermodern I don’t know much about this, presumably advances in phone sensors are driving advances in larger “camera” sensors at this point? It makes sense, the phone market is huge and there is much advertising about image quality differences in smartphone cameras. It seems like there is a greater drive for advertising to promote features in the ILC world instead of all-out image quality. Of course, some folks are still swayed by large megapickel counts...

12-28-2019, 09:29 AM	#27
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	What I meant asking for competition to Sony is that sensor tech development is a bit slow at the moment. All focus seems to be on focus and other milc features. I'm sure more competition would be good for price as well as features.

12-28-2019, 09:35 AM	#28
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by luftfluss OTOH I think the ergonomics for using a smartphone camera to be awful, yet billions of people like it just fine. I find phone easier to use than a camera, super easy, not a 100 list menu of a Sony A7 to go through to set the camera for a shot.

12-28-2019, 09:40 AM - 1 Like	#29
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by biz-engineer I find phone easier to use than a camera, super easy, not a 100 list menu of a Sony A7 to go through to set the camera for a shot. But it's the actual handling that's the issue. Have you set up a physical button for your phone camera? I find the process and physical handling of phones as cameras really annoying. I do realise that you can learn to like almost anything if you practice enough.

12-28-2019, 09:41 AM	#30
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by UncleVanya the comment about the mode dial is confusing and to me not a real issue Not an issue, just manufacturing cost saving on a $3500 made in china... that's embarassing. Generally I can believe customers accepting the build quality at the price they pay for cameras. Imagine, the Z7 battery door is held by two bits of plastic and it breaks very easily, prices slowly increased, quality decreased, customer got used to it (like the story of a fog in water not realizing the water slowly gets warmer and warmer to the point the frog can jump out).