Olympus Says Earth’s Rotation Limits Image Stabilization to 6.5 Stops Max

stevebrot · 01-06-2020, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I don't understand, we all spin at the same speed on the surface of earth, the camera spins at the same speed as its owner and the subject in front of the lens, if that wasn't the case we'd be in big trouble.

Moment of inertia...subtle, but real.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-06-2020, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by ismaelg

Wait! Isn't the Earth flat?

Only on week-ends.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-06-2020, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

You posted this same thing 3 years ago Olympus: Earth

The same truth then, now, and forever!

Steve

(...seven more to go...)

**StiffLegged** · 01-06-2020, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by ismaelg

Wait! Isn't the Earth flat?

In places, yes. Of course in other places it's really bumpy and the sea tends to go up and down a lot too. That's why you can't be sure of keeping the camera perfectly steady when handheld. Er...

**Apet-Sure** · 01-06-2020, 12:33 PM

Things up on mountains are moving faster than things in Death Valley or at the Dead Sea due to angular momentum, and some times dark matter and/or dark energy comes floating by just as you get ready to snap the shutter. No wonder some of my shots are so lousy.

---------- Post added 01-06-20 at 02:41 PM ----------

Originally posted by jddwoods

I will get very interested if they can cure, or compensate for Parkinsons disease

A year or so ago I watched a story about a medical implant that, when switched on, almost completely eliminated tremors. Parkinsons patients who could barely walk or hold a glass of water before could now do both with no problems. I'm sorry I don't remember where the research & surgery was being done. I need an implant to restore my memory.

swanlefitte · 01-06-2020, 12:50 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by luftfluss

You posted this same thing 3 years ago Olympus: Earth

Because of the earth' s rotation OP is limited to 3 years of memory. 😀

jddwoods · 01-06-2020, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

Things up on mountains are moving faster than things in Death Valley or at the Dead Sea due to angular momentum, and some times dark matter and/or dark energy comes floating by just as you get ready to snap the shutter. No wonder some of my shots are so lousy.

---------- Post added 01-06-20 at 02:41 PM ----------

A year or so ago I watched a story about a medical implant that, when switched on, almost completely eliminated tremors. Parkinsons patients who could barely walk or hold a glass of water before could now do both with no problems. I'm sorry I don't remember where the research & surgery was being done. I need an implant to restore my memory.

What you saw was DBS or Deep Brain Stimulation. It involves implanting an electrode in the brain and a controller, similar to a pacemaker in the chest. The two are connected by a wire that is implanted under the skin in the neck. I do not feel I am ready to go for this invasive surgery now. I am controlling my tremors with medications. Hopefully, a less invasive alternative will be invented. As far as photography, I find myself boosting up the ISO so I can shoot with faster shutter speeds and my chosen aperture setting. This helps, especially with my largest lens which is the DA* 300 with or without the 1.4 TC. So far I am doing OK with handheld shots with this lens mounted on my K-3. I will be interested in a potential upgrade if the new APS-C replacement shows significantly better high ISO performance than the K-3 or even the KP.

**RGlasel** · 01-06-2020, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Unless the camera can be confident about whether it is pointing North, East, South, or West, it doesn't know how to subtract the Earth's rotation from the gyro data to accurately estimate the rotation of the camera relative to the Earth.

I'm a long ways from a gyro expert, but don't they keep moving (whether that motion is going round and round or vibrating back and forth) in the same plane (same direction), even when stuff around them is moving? Then it shouldn't matter what direction the camera is pointed relative to the earth's axis of rotation, just that the direction the camera is pointed (along any of the axises measured by the gyroscopes) has changed.

WorksAsIntended · 01-06-2020, 01:42 PM

As there are multiple sensors it is possible to find the earth rotation if you know where you are located. So getting gps inside a camera may turn out usefull somehow.

35mmfilmfan · 01-06-2020, 02:19 PM

Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ?

And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter.

WorksAsIntended · 01-06-2020, 02:26 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ?

And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter.

No, that is simply wrong. Sorry.

swanlefitte · 01-06-2020, 02:29 PM

So how many stops can you get on the moon.

**BigMackCam** · 01-06-2020, 02:37 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by DWS1

Here's a new idea. Learn proper technique for holding a camera stable, like has been done for the 100 years before digital, then one does not need 6.5 or more stops of image stabilization. Maybe I'm too old school and cynical, but to me this is really all about marketing to people who want to capture that gallery worthy image and not put in the effort required to learn the skills it takes to get it. Basically an upgrade from a phone to a better camera that's used like a phone to capture images.

Hmmm... I get where you're coming from, and I wholeheartedly agree with the general concept of learning better technique rather than relying on technology to make up for deficiencies therein; BUT...

What about someone like me who knows and applies good technique but is simply no longer as steady as he used to be? At just 50 years old, my days of accurate pistol shooting (even two-handed) and rifle shooting (unless prone or using a rest) are long gone. With photography, I'm similarly challenged. Where once I could stand in the field with no tripod, not even a tree or fence post to brace against, and achieve good results at lower shutter speeds, now I generally need to brace against something - unless, that is, I'm using image stabilisation, which gets me right back to where I used to be and better still.

So, whilst I agree that image stabilisation shouldn't be a substitute for good technique, it can be an extremely useful feature when coupled with it.

**Apet-Sure** · 01-06-2020, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by jddwoods

I am controlling my tremors with medications.

I am very glad to hear it.

My K-5IIs does very well up to ISO 1600 or so, and I assume the KP would have 'good' IQ up to 6400. 'Good' is relative of course. I'm seriously considering getting a KP in the near future for an upcoming trip to Newfoundland. More on this in a new post. But I'm getting off topic for this one......

photoptimist · 01-06-2020, 03:12 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ?

And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter.

And that logic proves that all pictures of the moon are fake as the Earth-bound photographer is moving differently to the subject matter.

01-06-2020, 12:33 PM	#20
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,861	Things up on mountains are moving faster than things in Death Valley or at the Dead Sea due to angular momentum, and some times dark matter and/or dark energy comes floating by just as you get ready to snap the shutter. No wonder some of my shots are so lousy. ---------- Post added 01-06-20 at 02:41 PM ---------- Originally posted by jddwoods I will get very interested if they can cure, or compensate for Parkinsons disease A year or so ago I watched a story about a medical implant that, when switched on, almost completely eliminated tremors. Parkinsons patients who could barely walk or hold a glass of water before could now do both with no problems. I'm sorry I don't remember where the research & surgery was being done. I need an implant to restore my memory. Last edited by Apet-Sure; 01-06-2020 at 12:42 PM.

01-06-2020, 02:19 PM	#25
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,329	Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ? And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter. Last edited by 35mmfilmfan; 01-06-2020 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Additional information

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01-06-2020, 12:24 PM	#16
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by biz-engineer I don't understand, we all spin at the same speed on the surface of earth, the camera spins at the same speed as its owner and the subject in front of the lens, if that wasn't the case we'd be in big trouble. Moment of inertia...subtle, but real. Steve

01-06-2020, 12:25 PM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ismaelg Wait! Isn't the Earth flat? Only on week-ends. Steve

01-06-2020, 12:27 PM	#18
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by luftfluss You posted this same thing 3 years ago Olympus: Earth The same truth then, now, and forever! Steve (...seven more to go...)

01-06-2020, 12:29 PM	#19
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,620	Originally posted by ismaelg Wait! Isn't the Earth flat? In places, yes. Of course in other places it's really bumpy and the sea tends to go up and down a lot too. That's why you can't be sure of keeping the camera perfectly steady when handheld. Er...

01-06-2020, 12:50 PM - 2 Likes	#21
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Originally posted by luftfluss You posted this same thing 3 years ago Olympus: Earth Because of the earth' s rotation OP is limited to 3 years of memory. 😀

01-06-2020, 12:54 PM	#22
jddwoods Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,035	Originally posted by Apet-Sure Things up on mountains are moving faster than things in Death Valley or at the Dead Sea due to angular momentum, and some times dark matter and/or dark energy comes floating by just as you get ready to snap the shutter. No wonder some of my shots are so lousy. ---------- Post added 01-06-20 at 02:41 PM ---------- A year or so ago I watched a story about a medical implant that, when switched on, almost completely eliminated tremors. Parkinsons patients who could barely walk or hold a glass of water before could now do both with no problems. I'm sorry I don't remember where the research & surgery was being done. I need an implant to restore my memory. What you saw was DBS or Deep Brain Stimulation. It involves implanting an electrode in the brain and a controller, similar to a pacemaker in the chest. The two are connected by a wire that is implanted under the skin in the neck. I do not feel I am ready to go for this invasive surgery now. I am controlling my tremors with medications. Hopefully, a less invasive alternative will be invented. As far as photography, I find myself boosting up the ISO so I can shoot with faster shutter speeds and my chosen aperture setting. This helps, especially with my largest lens which is the DA* 300 with or without the 1.4 TC. So far I am doing OK with handheld shots with this lens mounted on my K-3. I will be interested in a potential upgrade if the new APS-C replacement shows significantly better high ISO performance than the K-3 or even the KP.

01-06-2020, 01:40 PM	#23
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	Originally posted by photoptimist Unless the camera can be confident about whether it is pointing North, East, South, or West, it doesn't know how to subtract the Earth's rotation from the gyro data to accurately estimate the rotation of the camera relative to the Earth. I'm a long ways from a gyro expert, but don't they keep moving (whether that motion is going round and round or vibrating back and forth) in the same plane (same direction), even when stuff around them is moving? Then it shouldn't matter what direction the camera is pointed relative to the earth's axis of rotation, just that the direction the camera is pointed (along any of the axises measured by the gyroscopes) has changed.

01-06-2020, 01:42 PM	#24
WorksAsIntended Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 639	As there are multiple sensors it is possible to find the earth rotation if you know where you are located. So getting gps inside a camera may turn out usefull somehow.

01-06-2020, 02:26 PM - 3 Likes	#26
WorksAsIntended Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 639	Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ? And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter. No, that is simply wrong. Sorry.

01-06-2020, 02:29 PM	#27
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	So how many stops can you get on the moon.

01-06-2020, 02:37 PM - 3 Likes	#28
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by DWS1 Here's a new idea. Learn proper technique for holding a camera stable, like has been done for the 100 years before digital, then one does not need 6.5 or more stops of image stabilization. Maybe I'm too old school and cynical, but to me this is really all about marketing to people who want to capture that gallery worthy image and not put in the effort required to learn the skills it takes to get it. Basically an upgrade from a phone to a better camera that's used like a phone to capture images. Hmmm... I get where you're coming from, and I wholeheartedly agree with the general concept of learning better technique rather than relying on technology to make up for deficiencies therein; BUT... What about someone like me who knows and applies good technique but is simply no longer as steady as he used to be? At just 50 years old, my days of accurate pistol shooting (even two-handed) and rifle shooting (unless prone or using a rest) are long gone. With photography, I'm similarly challenged. Where once I could stand in the field with no tripod, not even a tree or fence post to brace against, and achieve good results at lower shutter speeds, now I generally need to brace against something - unless, that is, I'm using image stabilisation, which gets me right back to where I used to be and better still. So, whilst I agree that image stabilisation shouldn't be a substitute for good technique, it can be an extremely useful feature when coupled with it.

01-06-2020, 02:37 PM	#29
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,861	Originally posted by jddwoods I am controlling my tremors with medications. I am very glad to hear it. My K-5IIs does very well up to ISO 1600 or so, and I assume the KP would have 'good' IQ up to 6400. 'Good' is relative of course. I'm seriously considering getting a KP in the near future for an upcoming trip to Newfoundland. More on this in a new post. But I'm getting off topic for this one......

01-06-2020, 03:12 PM - 2 Likes	#30
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,126	Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan Wasn't there a film 'Stop The World, I Want To Take A Photograph' - or something similar ? And basically, this proves the Apollo 'Earth Photographs' were fakes, as the 'capsule' would have been moving differently to the subject matter. And that logic proves that all pictures of the moon are fake as the Earth-bound photographer is moving differently to the subject matter.