[Benz3ne]

I'd ordered too much wine online[...]

Is there such a thing as 'too much wine'?

[BarneyL]

Does the camera metering system work well with the S screen?

The Canon screen is a different thickness than the Pentax screen. Turned out part of my problem was a defect in the camera (which Precision fixed under warranty), but I never could get the focusing screen adjusted correctly with shims. I ended up putting the original back in.

I do suggest using a ruler or something, as you would to microadjust AF, and check for front and back focus very carefully.

[noelpolar]

.

I paid $50AUD for a O-ME53 magnifier, $120AUD for a Tenpa 1.22 magnifier... really I shoulda just spent the money on a focus screen replacement from the outset. I may indeed now replace my KP screen with one.

Are you finding the 53 or 1.22 useful with the S screen?

[marcusBMG]

FYI this is the original big EES thread.

Best screen ever for manual focus : Canon ee-S!!! - PentaxForums.com

and the article just written by CAM on fine tuning your focus results off the green hexagon is pertinent to all of using MF lenses.

[zapp]

Hey Pentax, interchangeable screens including service and installation would make many here happy.

[BruceBanner]

Have you tested lenses with f4 maximum aperture? How well it works with them? Based on information on internet S matte is optimazed for faster than f2.8 lenses and I occasionally want to use slower lenses.

It's early days here so I have yet to test things thoroughly, but I will do and will report back here.

First of all, things are different depending upon the lens attached. For example, using my FA77 it seems that the OVF does not get dimmer or trickier to nail focus when stopping down. F4 looks exactly the same through the OVF as using 1.8. It's bright, not dull and you would have to initiate Optical Preview to see a true DoF representation for the aperture stopped down for. I really like this however, because sometimes I feel when things are showing stopped down in the OVF it can actually be harder to determine what is in focus as quite a few things appear in focus... if that makes sense. In this instance the OVF is showing a very shallow DoF but it does therefore help you know exactly where the peak focus of whatever aperture you're using falls to.

Other lenses that are manual focus (Takumar's, Lensbabies etc), they will reflect the aperture being used in the OVF as if they have Optical Preview continually applied. Again this is not a bad thing per se, but the trade off to having a continuous on Optical Preview experience is that the screen dims duller as you stop down. My take away message is if I am doing critical work indoors I will use an AF lens in MF mode and take advantage of the fact that I am always seeing a bright OVF screen, MF glass I will use more outdoors or in with plenty of light.
It did appear that using a CPL could dim things more than you would also like as well...

Does the camera metering system work well with the S screen?

I think it is different, and you may have to adjust an EV bias for your shooting conditions. I have not tested enough yet myself here in sunny Australia, but typically I may have -1EV bias always for blue sky days and -0.3EV bias for overcast days (the overcast days can still be bright, unlike UK overcast days where it can really impact light). I noticed when shooting wide open 1.8-2 that perhaps this bias may not be enough, it may need to be even stronger (-1.3 etc), however I also think it might be that the more you stop down the more you need to think about the EV bias and whether it needs adjusting. I have a feeling some of my shots at f4 might need less of a bias than f2, I just cannot for certain say that is true just yet as I have not done enough testing.

That might sound like a nightmare, but I have found that I would rather PP some exposure issues than cry about a great shot that I missed focus on.

The Canon screen is a different thickness than the Pentax screen. Turned out part of my problem was a defect in the camera (which Precision fixed under warranty), but I never could get the focusing screen adjusted correctly with shims. I ended up putting the original back in.

I do suggest using a ruler or something, as you would to microadjust AF, and check for front and back focus very carefully.

I have not done any global Fine Adjustments for manual focus glass, nor tested the AF and whether I need to revisit the FA for that. My FA77 was I think around +8, quite high originally, so yeah I still have some testing to do. All I really can say is I have been testing the 'bottle on a wall' and 'walking around the home' and just manually focusing on things and taking shots and without fine tuning feel as though the keeper rate has went through the roof!

Are you finding the 53 or 1.22 useful with the S screen?

That's a good question and I haven't really explored it properly yet. I did put the Tenpa 1.22 back on briefly to test, but it felt like I was doing better without it, especially when trying to nail focus off centre... Early days though, I cannot say for certain if the combo works or not.

FYI this is the original big EES thread.

Best screen ever for manual focus : Canon ee-S!!! - PentaxForums.com

and the article just written by CAM on fine tuning your focus results off the green hexagon is pertinent to all of using MF lenses.

I found the green hex annoying, as it was a spectrum or zone rather than a singular 'you have achieved focus' reference. Sometimes I wish I could just turn mine off as I find it distracting. It also doesn't help when focusing on something off centre point as well. I just felt as though I wanted an experience similar to LV manual focusing but through the OVF. This really feels like it to me.

Hey Pentax, interchangeable screens including service and installation would make many here happy.

I was nervous about doing the instalment, but really it was done and dusted in 5mins. Simple as, there's really not much to fear and I will try and do a video later this year.


Summary

It's way too early to say whether this new Focus Screen has fixed a gnawing issue I have had forever with my K-1, I have not yet done any professional jobs and cannot really report back if exposure problems are too great a risk vs getting better focus. This thread currently serves more as a first impressions (which are very positive!) and also a place for me to try and address questions and update hopefully with pictures and maybe even video (stuff my phone camera or KP through the OVF and hopefully let you see what I see etc).

Stay tuned.

[stevebrot]

First of all, things are different depending upon the lens attached. For example, using my FA77 it seems that the OVF does not get dimmer or trickier to nail focus when stopping down. F4 looks exactly the same through the OVF as using 1.8. It's bright, not dull and you would have to initiate Optical Preview to see a true DoF representation for the aperture stopped down for.

Yes, that is expected. The lens stays wide open unless stopped down. What might be of concern is when shooting with lenses like the new D FA 70-210mm f/4.0 where the viewfinder might dim significantly and throw the meter off.

I found the green hex annoying, as it was a spectrum or zone rather than a singular 'you have achieved focus' reference.

Yep...that "zone" represents the range where PDAF does not detect an OOF condition due to lack of sensitivity. The same issues exist for AF, though we tend to not sweat them too much.


Steve

[stevebrot]

A few notes:

In regards to focus accuracy with the S screen, that you can assess by comparing on-tripod best effort (don't touch focus ring) to magnified live view. Adjusting requires messing with different shims.

As you probably know, issues with stop-down metering with non-A lenses are not unusual, even with the stock screen. A common fix is to use M mode and meter in live view. That same approach may be used if you have metering problems with slower (f/4 and narrower maximum aperture) A-contact lenses.


Steve

[iheiramo]

It's early days here so I have yet to test things thoroughly, but I will do and will report back here.

First of all, things are different depending upon the lens attached. For example, using my FA77 it seems that the OVF does not get dimmer or trickier to nail focus when stopping down. F4 looks exactly the same through the OVF as using 1.8. It's bright, not dull and you would have to initiate Optical Preview to see a true DoF representation for the aperture stopped down for. I really like this however, because sometimes I feel when things are showing stopped down in the OVF it can actually be harder to determine what is in focus as quite a few things appear in focus... if that makes sense. In this instance the OVF is showing a very shallow DoF but it does therefore help you know exactly where the peak focus of whatever aperture you're using falls to.

Other lenses that are manual focus (Takumar's, Lensbabies etc), they will reflect the aperture being used in the OVF as if they have Optical Preview continually applied. Again this is not a bad thing per se, but the trade off to having a continuous on Optical Preview experience is that the screen dims duller as you stop down. My take away message is if I am doing critical work indoors I will use an AF lens in MF mode and take advantage of the fact that I am always seeing a bright OVF screen, MF glass I will use more outdoors or in with plenty of light.
It did appear that using a CPL could dim things more than you would also like as well...

Thanks. I'll wait for the test report. As I shoot mainly with manual lenses I've been interested in chancing the focusing screen, but never have gotten to it , because I'm not sure about drawbacks. I have lenses like M*300/4, Tak 200/3.5 and M150/3.5 which I'd like to keep on using, so if you can test some f4 lens, it would be nice to read your comments.

[MarkJerling]

There have been anecdotal comments regarding sloppily cut K-1 screens from focusingscreen. I suspect that is the basis for Mark's inquiry.


Steve

Yup. Well said Steve.

[StarTroop]

I found the green hex annoying, as it was a spectrum or zone rather than a singular 'you have achieved focus' reference. Sometimes I wish I could just turn mine off as I find it distracting. It also doesn't help when focusing on something off centre point as well. I just felt as though I wanted an experience similar to LV manual focusing but through the OVF. This really feels like it to me.

I recommend reading that article as it suggests to calibrate the lens AF adjustments according to either of the exact points where the green hexagon illuminates, rather than guessing an arbitrary point somewhere within the illuminated range. The only caveat is that you need to calibrate by focusing from either beyond or before the illuminated range, and then in practice you must only focus from that same direction for maximum accuracy. It's a bit of a workaround, but it removes the ambiguity of the green hexagon by exploiting a consistent point of reference. For AF lenses being manually focused, you should be still be able to use off-centre AF points for focus check, and for manual lenses that are limited to centre point... well, focus-recomposing generally works for me. Maybe it's time to look towards mirrorless if you want a no-hassle LV experience in the viewfinder.

[BruceBanner]

Yes, that is expected. The lens stays wide open unless stopped down. What might be of concern is when shooting with lenses like the new D FA 70-210mm f/4.0 where the viewfinder might dim significantly and throw the meter off.



Yep...that "zone" represents the range where PDAF does not detect an OOF condition due to lack of sensitivity. The same issues exist for AF, though we tend to not sweat them too much.


Steve

Just so we're clear, with an FA77 lens, it doesn't matter if you shoot at f4 or f8, stopping down does nothing to the OVF experience, it's still showing and behaving like you are shooting at f1.8. This is the same as how it is with the stock focus screen. I think you know that it's just the way you worded it.

What you're meaning to say is that the new DFA 70-210, because f4 is it's widest aperture then it is already into 'dark/dodgy territory' and even though it will behave the same as the FA77 and that using the lens at f5.6 or f8 will still show a screen at its widest aperture (f4) but because that's pretty stopped down for a lens already then the experience could be problematic.

I have for example already used the Tak 135/3.5, and because 3.5 is its widest aperture it is quite a lot darker than looking through the eyepiece with the FA77 because even if I set the FA77 to 3.5 also the FA77 is still able to show me a nice f1.8 DoF and brightness that the Takumar cannot attain.

I understand the concern that a 'slow' lens would perhaps not be a very good idea to use with this focus screen.

A few notes:

In regards to focus accuracy with the S screen, that you can assess by comparing on-tripod best effort (don't touch focus ring) to magnified live view. Adjusting requires messing with different shims.

As you probably know, issues with stop-down metering with non-A lenses are not unusual, even with the stock screen. A common fix is to use M mode and meter in live view. That same approach may be used if you have metering problems with slower (f/4 and narrower maximum aperture) A-contact lenses.


Steve

Yes I thought about that, just tripodding, getting a good shot with teh ovf and seeing if the LV is agreeing or not, and of course vice versa. I might Focus Chart later and see how much I might still be out. I do actually have more of these pads/shims that they supplied. Even if the focus is not bang on it's amazing that the hit rate is so much better already tho... which really says something about the stock screen imo.

Thanks. I'll wait for the test report. As I shoot mainly with manual lenses I've been interested in chancing the focusing screen, but never have gotten to it , because I'm not sure about drawbacks. I have lenses like M*300/4, Tak 200/3.5 and M150/3.5 which I'd like to keep on using, so if you can test some f4 lens, it would be nice to read your comments.

I shall do my best to report back. My feeling is if you do use a lot of 'slow' lenses then yeah, this might not be the screen for you. I did however bang out some cracking shots with my Tak 135/3.5 yesterday however, it was helped by doing so outside on a bright day. I wonder if a UV filter and/or a CPL will just be too much for these lenses tho...

I recommend reading that article as it suggests to calibrate the lens AF adjustments according to either of the exact points where the green hexagon illuminates, rather than guessing an arbitrary point somewhere within the illuminated range. The only caveat is that you need to calibrate by focusing from either beyond or before the illuminated range, and then in practice you must only focus from that same direction for maximum accuracy. It's a bit of a workaround, but it removes the ambiguity of the green hexagon by exploiting a consistent point of reference. For AF lenses being manually focused, you should be still be able to use off-centre AF points for focus check, and for manual lenses that are limited to centre point... well, focus-recomposing generally works for me. Maybe it's time to look towards mirrorless if you want a no-hassle LV experience in the viewfinder.

I've read the article before, and in fact came to the same conclusion as the author unaware someone had already been there and done that (and explained it far better than I ever could). My issues were;

1) My FA77 for example uses +8 for Fine Adjustments, it's good for AF but +8 might not be what I want for when I want to MF with it tho...

2) All Manual Focus lenses would have to use the same Fine Adjustment value as it's global.

3) For MF glass it's restrictive to centre point only, which I hate, I hardly ever take a shot with focus dead centre, and when using 1.4-1.8 focus/recompose is typically not good enough, it needs to be focus>recompose>refocus again, which lead me to just ignoring the hex completely and frame>focus>shoot.

What I decided was best is to just High Continuous burst and slowly rotate the focus ring throughout the burst, from near to far. One of the shots will be a keeper typically worked.

From what I can say on my preliminary experience thus far is that the feedback is just much clearer so that I can frame>focus>shoot with every shot being acceptably in focus first time (pretty much). This was not quite the same experience I would have with stock screen. Many factors matter, the stock screen was not too bad if focusing on something quite close to you, but far away it was very hard to tell.

[stevebrot]

2) All Manual Focus lenses would have to use the same Fine Adjustment value as it's global.

The article's author changes the global setting with changes of lens.


Steve

[Digitalis]

...place the vacum hose near the lens mount and run the vacum cleaner whist blowing the inside......