[reh321]

Spoke with Sigma Rep recently...
Stopped at the Sigma booth at the PPA convention in Nashville TN last month and asked about any plans for more Art lenses to fit my K1. He was quite blunt. Not enough sales to keep building the K mount lenses. Tamron has stopped as well. There are lenses out in the market but are old stock and will not be replaced nor updated. Economies of scale dictate that according to market share it isn't wise to shift focus away from the strongest brands. He suggested some of the newer Chinese lenses citing how much they have improved but would operate as manual. (As a side note, Pentax/Ricoh products and or accessories had no place at the convention. (Nikon wasn't featured either, however there were lenses and other accessories being shown and were available)
It was disappointing that my gear wasn't even an afterthought with thousands of photographers crowding the aisles of the trade show floor. Those I met had never even seen the K1 or were familiar with its fine points. They could talk your ears off about their Sony or Canon or how they switched to mirrorless APS-C cameras. Fuji had their impressive array of medium format cameras on display...priced similarly to the Pentax stalwart 645Z. I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot. I actually started researching what it would take to switch to another system. If they aren't going to support me ....

I have already purchased all that I need. I am not a collector - I use what I have and I am satisfied.

[normhead]

Good to see your shoulder has improved so you can type longer posts. I actually don't read every thread, so pardon me if I missed an update on your rehab, but how is it going?

It's going really slow, but surprisingly, even though I was told I'd need surgery, my muscles seem to be compensating without it. Maybe people really don't need rotator cuffs.

And I've been told by a neighbour who had the surgery I need, that her shoulder was worse after the surgery, so Im actually considering just toughing it out. As long as the pain situation continues to improve getting me under the knife may turn out to be a hard sell.

I'm still not using my telephotos without tripods because i can't support the weight, my DA 55-30 PLM is a god send, what a lens.

In either case, it sounds like my days of carrying my DA*60-250 for 15 kms through the bush are long gone.

I was out playing some volley ball last night. I still spend a bit of time playing above the net. My spikes are closer to 10 miles an hour (more like tips than hits) than the 50 they used to be, but the folks I play with aren't that good so that makes for more competitive games. I'm feeling a bit of discomfort but nothing like right after the injury. really i'm pretty lucky to even still be playing volleyball at 71. I shouldn't complain, I do, but I shouldn't.

After all, a lot of people my age are dead.

[UncleVanya]

Spoke with Sigma Rep recently...
Stopped at the Sigma booth at the PPA convention in Nashville TN last month and asked about any plans for more Art lenses to fit my K1.

Mike, you have 22 posts in 7 years, obviously this is a topic you feel driven to discuss. However, the fact is that Sigma stated their withdrawal and it has been discussed on the site in detail. Going to a sales rep on the floor of an event and asking about this makes you look out of touch. There have been published articles about this with interviews of top executives. Sigma is done with K mount. But although no direct mention has been made by Sigma, they are clearly focused mainly on mirrorless. Even Nikon F and Canon EF users have seen some mirrorless only designs pass them by.

Another part of the issue is that Sigma is trying to get away from design that rely on mechanical linkage for aperture.

What's this mean to the brand? Less choice, but probably, more profit for Ricoh. Lenses not bodies make money... At least that's the common wisdom. More profit means they're going to stay in business longer.

On a personal note, I have a lot of Pentax glass and switching would be e pretty tough for me. However if I found there were lenses I felt were needed or bodies that did things I felt I had to have, then I'd dabble a little and stick a toe in the water.

The grass is always greener over the septic tank...

[FotoGekko]

It's going really slow, but surprisingly, even though I was told I'd need surgery, my muscles seem to be compensating without it. Maybe people really don't need rotator cuffs. .

As a (retired) physio I equally strongly agree with your first propostition as I disagree with the last one.....

[Cerebum]

I have a KP and a K3, so that's me sorted until I die, re. lenses, Pentax AF or vintage is all I need. The plastics used on 3rd party lenses are generally horrible. As for lack of support, we are almost a niche brand. Pentax sells so few units it isn't viable to develop a lens for K mount, especially in the current market. Mirrorless is perceived as the future of the occasional photographer (and a few pros of course, but there are more occasional who want to move up from their phone) so that is where the money is. Z mount needs lenses, x mount is popular, Sony users like a nice expensive lens and M4/3 has Olympus and Panasonic. I am happy that we have a new flagship apsc coming out but I don't give a toss about Tamron, sigma, lensbaby or the rest! Give me a nice Pentax limited and I will be happy for a lifetime[COLOR="Silver"]

[c.a.m]

My watching the flow of trends has to do with what I want.

But my feeling that Ricoh hasn't supported the brand here in the US

I guarantee the brand sees more support in your country and the UK than it does here.

@MikeDSr, good to know your background, thanks. I've never been in distribution, sales, or retail, so I don't have a good insight of the manufacturers' perspectives.

I'm curious what is meant by 'support'. Is it that you've had issues with warranty or repairs? Or that you've had difficulty buying Pentax gear owing to lack of retail outlets? Is the problem that Ricoh has not 'supported' the brand by not developing or producing specific features or lenses that you need or want?

What is the gap from your perspective?

Touching back on trade shows, three camera/photo shows were held in Canada last Fall, in Quebec City, Montreal and Toronto. Ricoh/Pentax exhibited at all three, represented by Ricoh Imaging Canada, I believe. I attended the one in Montreal. They had a relatively small booth, but a good cross-section of current products, and, perhaps surprisingly, there was a decent flow of visitors. No, the interest in Pentax was not as intense as for several other brands, but I was happy with that -- I got good face time with one of the several reps there.

I don't think my opinion of Pentax or interest in the brand would have changed if they were not at any of these shows; I tend to select my gear based on my own research, and knowledge gained from this Forum. I can acquire Pentax stuff from at least a half-dozen reputable dealers across Canada or from Amazon and shipping is cheap and easy. What I can't do, however, is handle or try the stuff locally. One of the retail stores of a large Canadian chain is located a short distance from my home; they stopped holding Pentax on their shelf several years ago. They still carry Pentax and will 'special order' for you with no return possible once ordered. On the other hand, several of the other retailers are more liberal in their return policies.

- Craig

To be honest: Pentax does not exist anymore. It is just a Ricoh camera with the name Pentax on it. If there is another brand of camera that uses the K-Mount, I probably would buy that one. I have lot of old Pentax glass. So I just did buy a K-mount camera on which I can use my old glass: a Samsung GX-10, it was more affordable than a K10D at that time and it gave better results in terms of color and sharpness (both are subjective, of course). And because I bought a few DA lenses I also bought a more modern Ricoh camera: a K-01. I also bought a K3II because it was very affordable, it was an outlet of Pentax UK, and sold in the Netherlands along with a large collection of demo K3's, a demo K3II (with only 7 clicks) with the 16-85 thrown into the bargain. Sometimes I think I am stupid to have invested in digital versions of Ricoh, both camera and lens. But to be honest again. If you are used to working with old Pentax camera's (real ones) than it is not such a big step from film to digital. That is what I did. And if Sigma does not make K-mount lenses anymore so be it. If you want Pentax K-mount I am afraid you have to buy what Ricoh has to offer and as only few people buy a Ricoh Pentax-named camera, they cannot afford to make a huge selection of lenses. The reason therefor is that they are not those proud Asahi Pentax people from the old days. And I think that we photographers have a wrong sense of loyalty. And if anyone would make me an offer for all my Ricoh/Pentax digital equipment (except the K-01) I would sell the whole bunch. And buy a lovely mirrorless.

[normhead]

To be honest: Pentax does not exist anymore. It is just a Ricoh camera with the name Pentax on it. If there is another brand of camera that uses the K-Mount, I probably would buy that one. I have lot of old Pentax glass. So I just did buy a K-mount camera on which I can use my old glass: a Samsung GX-10, it was more affordable than a K10D at that time and it gave better results in terms of color and sharpness (both are subjective, of course). And because I bought a few DA lenses I also bought a more modern Ricoh camera: a K-01. I also bought a K3II because it was very affordable, it was an outlet of Pentax UK, and sold in the Netherlands along with a large collection of demo K3's, a demo K3II (with only 7 clicks) with the 16-85 thrown into the bargain. Sometimes I think I am stupid to have invested in digital versions of Ricoh, both camera and lens. But to be honest again. If you are used to working with old Pentax camera's (real ones) than it is not such a big step from film to digital. That is what I did. And if Sigma does not make K-mount lenses anymore so be it. If you want Pentax K-mount I am afraid you have to buy what Ricoh has to offer and as only few people buy a Ricoh Pentax-named camera, they cannot afford to make a huge selection of lenses. The reason therefor is that they are not those proud Asahi Pentax people from the old days. And I think that we photographers have a wrong sense of loyalty. And if anyone would make me an offer for all my Ricoh/Pentax digital equipment (except the K-01) I would sell the whole bunch. And buy a lovely mirrorless.

Ricoh split their cameras, point and shoots and fixed lens cameras are Ricoh's, DSLRs are Pentaxes. And my understanding is they are different divisions. So saying the Ricoh brand is the same as the Pentax brand, is a bit misleading. Pentax is now Ricoh, Ricoh is also part Pentax (as in the WG series.) I'm not sure this distinction (or lack of it) is accurate. Ricoh still does what Ricoh does best, Pentax still does what Pentax does best.

And buy a lovely mirrorless.

You have my sympathy. Mirrorless is the rage, I'm sure a lot of folks heavily invested in DSLRs feel left out.

However we have users who have both and still prefer to use their DSLRs from time to time. For many, the adoption of mirrorless hasn't meant the demise of their DSLRs.

I've seen commentaries where people are saying "I switched to mirrorless and never looked back."
I've seen other commentaries saying " I switched to mirrorless then switched back" with a "You don't know what you've got til it's gone " theme.

Then there's the "Sometimes i use my mirrorless, sometimes I use my DSLR "depending on what I'm doing." Crowd.

It's all good. It's hard to know which camp you'd ultimately fall into. There's no one size fits all answer.

[c.a.m]

The grass is always greener over the septic tank...

LOL. I hadn't heard this one before.

The reason therefor is that they are not those proud Asahi Pentax people from the old days. And I think that we photographers have a wrong sense of loyalty. And if anyone would make me an offer for all my Ricoh/Pentax digital equipment (except the K-01) I would sell the whole bunch. And buy a lovely mirrorless.

I am not sure that I understand your perspective. Is it that the Pentax-branded equipment is preferred less now because the Ricoh/Pentax team is less proud of their work and products than in the old days? I would think that pride can exist strongly in any team, in particular smaller teams that are not part of an organization's mainstream. I would bet that the current team is very proud of their work.

Almost certainly someone would buy your Pentax equipment at the right price. Have you tried to sell it, for example here in the Pentax Forums Marketplace?

Which lovely mirrorless system are you considering? There are several good systems and all of them can take great pictures. Of course, so can Pentax.


- Craig

[RGlasel]

even though I was told I'd need surgery, my muscles seem to be compensating without it

You are just like Connor McDavid and you didn't have to go to a Los Angeles clinic to find that out!

To be on topic, the time for spending serious money on marketing support is past for not just Pentax, but every camera manufacturer. The overall market for non-free digital cameras is one-eight of what it was 8-10 years ago and it is still shrinking. I guarantee there isn't a single marketing executive for camera manufacturers who isn't being asked to cut back on spending. Time to go take my blood pressure medication.

[texandrews]

1.
If you spent anytime reading the forum you wouldn't have wasted your time.

2.

Tamron is licensing lenses to Pentax.

3.

That's nonsense. If you don't see the results of economies of scale on the sticker price, they mean nothing to you. What he's saying is buy the brands we (Sigma) makes lenses for so we can make money. That's nothing more than a sales pitch.

If I'd been there i would have brought my Sigma 18-250 put his hands and said "I paid $400 for this lens, it worked correctly for 18 months was sent to fix the decentering and then returned no better than it was when I sent it in, and you didn't even acknowledge my request for it to be repaired,nor did you even mention the images I sent you showing how inoperable the lens was. WTF is wrong with you people?" $275 a year to own a lens is the most I've ever paid for a lens. Even my most expensive glass is cheaper than that." I paid $1200 for my DA* 60-250 almost 10 years ago and it's still going and it's less than half the cost per year of the Sigma 18-250. And you are taking advice from that guy?

4.

You were looking for Pentax, how do you know no one else was?
You're getting into some serious hyperbole here.

5.

Yawn, that is so 10 years ago. All these people saying what Pentax has to do, Pentax doesn't do it, they cut back even more to fit the downturn in the camera industry and then just keep rolling along. Everyone can talk your ears off about their camera. Why would you care if they can't talk their ears off about yours. (My apologies if you're newbie looking for advice. In that case, buy what you friends use.)



Go take some pictures.

If there is something you want that Pentax doesn't make, for sure switch brands, no one has an issue with that.

But if you want to take advice from Pentax's competitors (1.) choose to ignore the relationship between Tamron and Pentax (2.)

Want to use a brand which spends lots of money on advertising, which you ultimately pay for "As a side note, Pentax/Ricoh products and or accessories had no place at the convention."

Swallow the sales pitches of competitors hook line and sinker. (3.)

Want to be seen using the same brands as everyone else so you can feel part of crowd. (4.)

Or are waiting for Pentax to be "not Pentax" , ("I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot."

And it looks like you fall into all those categories, Pentax isn't for you. One of the characteristics of modern Pentax users is, they ignore the squawking of the unwashed hoards, and just keep shooting.

For myself, I won't be switching until I need to do something my Pentax's won't do. I don't care which way the rest of the world is going, if I can get top quality results from my gear, and I have what I want, everything you point to is fluff. Perhaps in your case, there's something you want that isn't available in Pentax and you're missing shots because of it. Then switch. It's not rocket science, but we've been reading posts like this for years, even the sales pitch of the Sigma rep pretending to be your friend.

But, if you are a a guy who thinks he's safer in the middle of the herd, Pentax isn't for you. I consider that a social issue, not a camera issue.

All of my Pentax gear bought over the last 10 years still does what I bought it to do. And so far I've found everything I was looking for. If you can't find what you're looking for, switching may solve your problem, it may also create new problems you didn't anticipate. We've had a few switchers return after a few years with other systems. I bet the Sigma guy didn't tell you that.

Seriously, you walked into a Ford dealership and asked what they think of GM.

I guess it never occurred that other Pentax users might have stayed away, just because there was no Pentax booth? Personally I look for the Pentax booth, before I attend.

What NormHead said....

[revelstoked]

You certainly have a lot to say but you miss my point. I've been shooting Pentax 35 mm for over 40 years and even though I dabbled for a short time with Nikon in digital went back with the K10, K5II and eventually the K1 Mk2. I have plenty of the Pentax glass and have been in sales for over 40 years. I know how the crap is spread at a trade show, however I was an interested customer. He wanted to sell me a lens but didn't even have any K mount stock to ship. My watching the flow of trends has to do with what I want. I am happy you are happy and have everything figured out. But my feeling that Ricoh hasn't supported the brand here in the US is just as valid as your satisfaction with things in Canada. I guarantee the brand sees more support in your country and the UK than it does here. So, if you don't mind don't play me as a fool for speaking my mind.

Actually, there is virtually no pentax support here in Canada. Maybe 4 brick and mortar retailers west of Toronto, and when you go in they know very little about the product and it is usually collecting dust in the corner. It is quite sad actually. I cannot understand how anyone at ricoh/pentax could think that they could have a sustainable market here without any real presence on the internet (video, blogs, social media) or anywhere for anyone to actually pick up a camera. Maybe they just don't care.

And go....

[roberrl]

It surprises me that we seem to have one of these posts every couple of months.
Are Pentax glory days over? Yes
Are separate digital camera glory days over? Yes
Would we like to see more features on our chosen brand? Yes
Is there any brand which is perfect? No
Can Pentax ever catch up with Canikony? In general given the current state of the market No. In some niches Yes, even already ahead.

Is it good use of marketing money to attend shows? - the jury is out on that
Should Ricoh/Pentax spend their money instead on developing new product eg Knew then yes please.

As users we want plenty of choice and Sigma/Tamron/etc lenses are part of that but it's of little benefit to Ricoh/Pentax - A Sigma lens purchased is a Pentax sale lost.

In short I think these are difficult times for conventional camera manufacturers and Ricoh/Pentax are doing pretty well to keep going. I for one am duly grateful that I can keep on using my accumulation of vintage and modern K-mount lenses.

[stevebrot]

If they aren't going to support me ....

What the Sigma guy was telling you is that the market (installed base) for K-mount cameras is too small to warrant support of the mount, particularly since they are fully involved with supporting their L-Alliance commitments.* That said, which Art lens would you like to see? Sigma currently supports the following in Pentax-K:

• 30/1.4
• 35/1.4
• 18-35/1.8

Only the 35/1.4 is FF compatible, but all three offer exceptional performance at VERY competitive price points. A simple move to Nikon F or Canon EF gives you access to the full lineup. Moving to Sony EF or L-mount has you working with an adapter, but only on supporting lenses. Got a new Canon RF or Nikon Z mirrorless? Go fish...

Now rumor (based on statements from Canon execs) has it that Canon EF is a "dead man walking" with planned EOL for most of their SLR line in the near future. Nikon is trimming their more serious SLR body offerings as well. Where to go...where to go, if one wants to invest in an ILC system and wants to shoot Sigma in native mount? Hint: Best to not predicate one's decisions on Sigma.

Now back to "if they aren't going to support me ....". If you feel diminished that the bulk of people at a trade show were unfamiliar with the advantages of your choice of gear, it is best to shift to a product that is on the rise and has "legs", so to speak. Medium Format Fuji might be a good bet, but no Sigma support, so that leaves Panasonic L-mount. (So why wasn't Nikon at the show?)


Steve

(...happy owner of a Sigma 17-70/2.8-4.0 | C ...)

* More specifically, small market with traditionally poor penetration and dismal prospects for ROI. Ask the dude about Nikon Z or Leica M and you will get a similar answer.

[MikeDSr]

Do we realize what is the single reason Sigma&co stopped introducing Pentax K lenses? We won't buy them.

Sure, Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh are in large part responsible, for failing to make their product lines more compelling. I'm also seeing too many price-sensitive people, and that's when Pentax is good value for money.
It's not a one way "they must support me, and maybe I'll do them a favor and buy something... if it's cheap". It's business; give and take.

Once you buy into a system you have a tendency to stick with that system. That is your supporting the brand. Over the years your investment in equipment grows. If you only shoot weddings you know what you need. If you only shoot portraits or landscapes or advertising copy the same is true. If you have everything you need, great. I want more choices. Within a 200 mile radius I can buy a Leica system hands on but there is not a Pentax retailer to be found and I live in an area with 1.2 million cell phone photographers.
According to the responses to my initial post it appears folks being satisfied means I should be satisfied. I did my homework before committing to my K1. I am sure I made the right choice. But I'm unconvinced Ricoh has any plans to further penetrate the US market with the brand. I understand the market's shrinking and DSLR sales are tanking. But you don't stop marketing.