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02-04-2020, 06:32 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Lack of support for brand development

Spoke with Sigma Rep recently...
Stopped at the Sigma booth at the PPA convention in Nashville TN last month and asked about any plans for more Art lenses to fit my K1. He was quite blunt. Not enough sales to keep building the K mount lenses. Tamron has stopped as well. There are lenses out in the market but are old stock and will not be replaced nor updated. Economies of scale dictate that according to market share it isn't wise to shift focus away from the strongest brands. He suggested some of the newer Chinese lenses citing how much they have improved but would operate as manual. (As a side note, Pentax/Ricoh products and or accessories had no place at the convention. (Nikon wasn't featured either, however there were lenses and other accessories being shown and were available)
It was disappointing that my gear wasn't even an afterthought with thousands of photographers crowding the aisles of the trade show floor. Those I met had never even seen the K1 or were familiar with its fine points. They could talk your ears off about their Sony or Canon or how they switched to mirrorless APS-C cameras. Fuji had their impressive array of medium format cameras on display...priced similarly to the Pentax stalwart 645Z. I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot. I actually started researching what it would take to switch to another system. If they aren't going to support me ....

02-04-2020, 06:52 AM   #2
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02-04-2020, 06:54 AM   #3
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Whatever plan Ricoh has, it will take time. If it takes too long, to keep/convince customers, trouble starts. We are free to decide for ourselves. I donít need non Pentax glass.
02-04-2020, 07:02 AM - 1 Like   #4
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I don't think anyone here is satisfied with the Ricoh's marketing of the Pentax brand, or happy about the diminishing third-party lens options.

But then, what can one do about it?

02-04-2020, 07:05 AM - 11 Likes   #5
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1.
QuoteQuote:
Stopped at the Sigma booth at the PPA convention in Nashville TN last month and asked about any plans for more Art lenses to fit my K1. He was quite blunt
If you spent anytime reading the forum you wouldn't have wasted your time.

2.
QuoteQuote:
Tamron has stopped as well.
Tamron is licensing lenses to Pentax.

3.
QuoteQuote:
Economies of scale dictate that according to market share it isn't wise to shift focus away from the strongest brands.
That's nonsense. If you don't see the results of economies of scale on the sticker price, they mean nothing to you. What he's saying is buy the brands we (Sigma) makes lenses for so we can make money. That's nothing more than a sales pitch.

If I'd been there i would have brought my Sigma 18-250 put his hands and said "I paid $400 for this lens, it worked correctly for 18 months was sent to fix the decentering and then returned no better than it was when I sent it in, and you didn't even acknowledge my request for it to be repaired,nor did you even mention the images I sent you showing how inoperable the lens was. WTF is wrong with you people?" $275 a year to own a lens is the most I've ever paid for a lens. Even my most expensive glass is cheaper than that." I paid $1200 for my DA* 60-250 almost 10 years ago and it's still going and it's less than half the cost per year of the Sigma 18-250. And you are taking advice from that guy?

4.
QuoteQuote:
It was disappointing that my gear wasn't even an afterthought with thousands of photographers crowding the aisles of the trade show floor.
You were looking for Pentax, how do you know no one else was?
You're getting into some serious hyperbole here.

5.
QuoteQuote:
They could talk your ears off about their Sony or Canon or how they switched to mirrorless APS-C cameras. Fuji had their impressive array of medium format cameras on display...priced similarly to the Pentax stalwart 645Z. I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot. I actually started researching what it would take to switch to another system.
Yawn, that is so 10 years ago. All these people saying what Pentax has to do, Pentax doesn't do it, they cut back even more to fit the downturn in the camera industry and then just keep rolling along. Everyone can talk your ears off about their camera. Why would you care if they can't talk their ears off about yours. (My apologies if you're newbie looking for advice. In that case, buy what you friends use.)

QuoteQuote:
If they aren't going to support me ....
Go take some pictures.

If there is something you want that Pentax doesn't make, for sure switch brands, no one has an issue with that.

But if you want to take advice from Pentax's competitors (1.) choose to ignore the relationship between Tamron and Pentax (2.)

Want to use a brand which spends lots of money on advertising, which you ultimately pay for "As a side note, Pentax/Ricoh products and or accessories had no place at the convention."

Swallow the sales pitches of competitors hook line and sinker. (3.)

Want to be seen using the same brands as everyone else so you can feel part of crowd. (4.)

Or are waiting for Pentax to be "not Pentax" , ("I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot."

And it looks like you fall into all those categories, Pentax isn't for you. One of the characteristics of modern Pentax users is, they ignore the squawking of the unwashed hoards, and just keep shooting.

For myself, I won't be switching until I need to do something my Pentax's won't do. I don't care which way the rest of the world is going, if I can get top quality results from my gear, and I have what I want, everything you point to is fluff. Perhaps in your case, there's something you want that isn't available in Pentax and you're missing shots because of it. Then switch. It's not rocket science, but we've been reading posts like this for years, even the sales pitch of the Sigma rep pretending to be your friend.

But, if you are a a guy who thinks he's safer in the middle of the herd, Pentax isn't for you. I consider that a social issue, not a camera issue.

All of my Pentax gear bought over the last 10 years still does what I bought it to do. And so far I've found everything I was looking for. If you can't find what you're looking for, switching may solve your problem, it may also create new problems you didn't anticipate. We've had a few switchers return after a few years with other systems. I bet the Sigma guy didn't tell you that.

Seriously, you walked into a Ford dealership and asked what they think of GM.

I guess it never occurred that other Pentax users might have stayed away, just because there was no Pentax booth? Personally I look for the Pentax booth, before I attend.

Last edited by normhead; 02-04-2020 at 07:34 AM.
02-04-2020, 07:06 AM   #6
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02-04-2020, 07:42 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeDSr Quote
It was disappointing that my gear wasn't even an afterthought with thousands of photographers crowding the aisles of the trade show floor. Those I met had never even seen the K1 or were familiar with its fine points. They could talk your ears off about their Sony or Canon or how they switched to mirrorless APS-C cameras. Fuji had their impressive array of medium format cameras on display...priced similarly to the Pentax stalwart 645Z. I just feel like Ricoh needs to crap or get off the pot. I actually started researching what it would take to switch to another system. If they aren't going to support me ....
I gather that the PPA show 'Imaging USA' attracted a couple of thousand attendees and around 200 exhibitors. Sounds like a decent show.

I wonder how many attendees you met or spoke with. I would guess that you'd need to chat with perhaps 100 folks at the show to hit one that uses or is familiar with the Pentax brand (100 out of 2,000 = 5%). As we have found in numerous discussions here in Pentax Forums, Pentax is not as well-known as the 'other' more popular brands.

Certainly, all of the camera brands provide excellent gear, Pentax included. However, it seems that the Pentax brand is not satisfying your needs. I think your post would be reinforced if you would highlight what functions, features, or lenses you need or want that would be satisfied only by another brand.


- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 02-04-2020 at 07:47 AM.
02-04-2020, 07:43 AM - 1 Like   #8
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You certainly have a lot to say but you miss my point. I've been shooting Pentax 35 mm for over 40 years and even though I dabbled for a short time with Nikon in digital went back with the K10, K5II and eventually the K1 Mk2. I have plenty of the Pentax glass and have been in sales for over 40 years. I know how the crap is spread at a trade show, however I was an interested customer. He wanted to sell me a lens but didn't even have any K mount stock to ship. My watching the flow of trends has to do with what I want. I am happy you are happy and have everything figured out. But my feeling that Ricoh hasn't supported the brand here in the US is just as valid as your satisfaction with things in Canada. I guarantee the brand sees more support in your country and the UK than it does here. So, if you don't mind don't play me as a fool for speaking my mind.

02-04-2020, 07:50 AM   #9
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I would really be surprised if Sigma launches much other than L mount lenses and gear for the next little bit. They aren't a huge company and seemingly they have gone all in with that. Beyond which, Pentaxians just didn't buy a bunch of the Sigma lenses that they chose to launch in the K mount. To me that was partly Sigma's fault -- they should have targeted more focal lengths that weren't covered by Pentax like the 85mm f1.4 or super telephoto ranges -- but regardless, they didn't sell many K mount lenses and chose to drop it as a result.

As far as switching, it is totally reasonable if you need something that Pentax doesn't offer, like a tilt shift lens or super-telephoto that goes beyond 450mm. But all of those things come at a cost with other brands and after looking at the pricing on Sony's G Master lenses, I think I'll stick with Pentax for the time being.
02-04-2020, 07:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeDSr Quote
Stopped at the Sigma booth at the PPA convention in Nashville TN last month and asked about any plans for more Art lenses to fit my K1. He was quite blunt. Not enough sales to keep building the K mount lenses. Tamron has stopped as well.
It's because we live in a money driven world. Every single thing done is done for money. Even going to the toilets is not free anymore, you have to pay and if you don't pay you can't pee! When I was a kid, peeing was totally free anywhere you went. If it's not going to make money we don't do it. If you go to the dolomites, it's the same: the road to the drei zinnen used to be free, but now you have to pay 30 euros just to access... for what? for nothing, just because someone decided to install a toll and make people pay.

---------- Post added 04-02-20 at 15:58 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MikeDSr Quote
Those I met had never even seen the K1 or were familiar with its fine points. They could talk your ears off about their Sony or Canon or how they switched to mirrorless APS-C cameras
I didn't know owning a popular brand of cameras was relevant for taking photographs.
02-04-2020, 08:01 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeDSr Quote
If they aren't going to support me ....
Do we realize what is the single reason Sigma&co stopped introducing Pentax K lenses? We won't buy them.

Sure, Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh are in large part responsible, for failing to make their product lines more compelling. I'm also seeing too many price-sensitive people, and that's when Pentax is good value for money.
It's not a one way "they must support me, and maybe I'll do them a favor and buy something... if it's cheap". It's business; give and take.
02-04-2020, 08:05 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeDSr Quote
You certainly have a lot to say but you miss my point. I've been shooting Pentax 35 mm for over 40 years and even though I dabbled for a short time with Nikon in digital went back with the K10, K5II and eventually the K1 Mk2. I have plenty of the Pentax glass and have been in sales for over 40 years. I know how the crap is spread at a trade show, however I was an interested customer. He wanted to sell me a lens but didn't even have any K mount stock to ship. My watching the flow of trends has to do with what I want. I am happy you are happy and have everything figured out. But my feeling that Ricoh hasn't supported the brand here in the US is just as valid as your satisfaction with things in Canada. I guarantee the brand sees more support in your country and the UK than it does here. So, if you don't mind don't play me as a fool for speaking my mind.
I don't think I missed your point.
But whatever.

You want a camera represented by a big advertising budget and supported by third party manufactures. That was you point.
You want a camera you can buy Sigma lenses for.
You want a camera that if you walk around a camera convention, lots of other users will have the same brand.
You want a brand like what Pentax was even 20 years ago.

And with the camera market falling off the edge go a cliff, it's unlikely we'll ever see the sales numbers from 10 years ago again, and equally unlikely any camera company can be what they were.

The brand you are looking isn't the modern Pentax... that was my point.

What did I miss?

Last edited by normhead; 02-04-2020 at 08:25 AM.
02-04-2020, 08:08 AM   #13
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Losing Sigma is not that big a deal except for folks who want their super tele lenses. The 18-35 Art was reputed to be horrible as far as focus accuracy, and the pricing on the ART series was not really that great to me but YMMV. Other than the Sigma 120-400 HSM I had, most of the Sigmas I have tried/owned have underwhelmed me, especially in micro contrast and color rendition. With few exceptions, I find a used FA* lens is better for me than anything Sigma. You must not surf the forums here much if you didn't read that Sigma was leaving the Pentax market, it was at the top in the News and Rumors thread for weeks. Since Sigma doesn't pay the royalties to get the focusing software from Pentax, my attitude towards them is the same as it is to all IP thieves. That would be a forum foul if I typed it!
02-04-2020, 08:11 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Go take some pictures.
Good to see your shoulder has improved so you can type longer posts. I actually don't read every thread, so pardon me if I missed an update on your rehab, but how is it going?
02-04-2020, 08:22 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Support is more than development......
My Sigma 50-150 APO HSM II worked flawlessly on my K30 but not on my new Kp.
Luckily the Austrian Sigma distributor was still able to update the firmware of this more than 10 years old lens and to a very reasonable price as well
(You perhaps already guessed what happened to my K30....)

Cheers Gerard
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