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02-17-2020, 04:59 PM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by bladerunner6 Quote
It may seem funny but many people on gear forums don’t appreciate the importance of affordability.

Median US household income was $63K in 2018.

U.S. Median Household Income Was $63,179 in 2018, Not Significantly Different From 2017

Figure in food, clothing, shelter, transportation, health care, insurance, communication services, saving for retirement and taxes that does not leave a great many people with the ability to buy a $1500 camera body.
In the UK the average household income in 2019 was less than $40,000, this coupled with higher prices makes camera equipment even less affordable

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfina...019provisional

02-17-2020, 05:10 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by timb64 Quote
In the UK the average household income in 2019 was less than $40,000, this coupled with higher prices makes camera equipment even less affordable

Average household income, UK - Office for National Statistics
Average income /= Median HH Income (Family of Four), but ai get your point.
02-17-2020, 06:21 PM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by camera_nut Quote
l won't spend more than 200usd on a phone. Why? Because they're disposable. l only keep a phone for about 2 years.
A real dealbreaker for me would be no notification diode.

That's why I'm gonna replace my Samsung note 10 plus ($1099) when I find something with a better camera inside.

Oh, wait, were we talking about REAL cameras here? My bad.

Thanks/Erik

Last edited by Erich_H; 02-18-2020 at 04:38 AM.
02-17-2020, 08:47 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Average income /= Median HH Income (Family of Four), but ai get your point.
Sorry,yes I should have said "median" income,that is the figure given in the actual article not the "average" referred to in the title.Either way it's quite significantly lower, please feel sorry for your Brit cousins

02-17-2020, 09:38 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by timb64 Quote
Sorry,yes I should have said "median" income,that is the figure given in the actual article not the "average" referred to in the title.Either way it's quite significantly lower, please feel sorry for your Brit cousins
I think we all need to accept that hobby / non-professional photography with Interchangeable lens cameras is only affordable for what in the US we call the Upper Middle Class. I classify the lower bound of UMC as 2x the Median HH Income, or about $135M, but really it is closer to $200,000. It is a hobby for wealthy people..
02-17-2020, 11:59 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As in cars, people can choose to buy a more modest phone and use it until the software stops working - but few are so disciplined.
I literally know one person out of literal hundreds that spent more than 700€ on a phone. Most have bought in the 4-600 range, and another good chunk in the <200 range (like myself). The thing is that a camera does NOT replace any other machine, while a decent phone replaces camera, tablet, watch, and in some cases laptop. Trying to compare cameras and phones in price range is utter nonsense.

---------- Post added 02-18-20 at 12:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think we all need to accept that hobby / non-professional photography with Interchangeable lens cameras is only affordable for what in the US we call the Upper Middle Class. I classify the lower bound of UMC as 2x the Median HH Income, or about $135M, but really it is closer to $200,000. It is a hobby for wealthy people..
With this, I agree completely. The only reason we have the cameras we have at home is that we have no kids, generally live frugally¹, really play the second hand market, and mostly use older gear (the two only modern lenses we have are an EF 24-70/4L and my D FA 28-105, bought for about 300€ each).

¹: if you spend 24/7 most of the day at work, you don't get too many opportunities to spend too much money

Last edited by Serkevan; 02-18-2020 at 12:06 AM.
02-18-2020, 01:47 AM - 2 Likes   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think we all need to accept that hobby / non-professional photography with Interchangeable lens cameras is only affordable for what in the US we call the Upper Middle Class. I classify the lower bound of UMC as 2x the Median HH Income, or about $135M, but really it is closer to $200,000. It is a hobby for wealthy people..
Well I fall into a group considerably lower than that.But like Serkevan I don’t have dependants and live a fairly frugal life (travel and photography aside)I suppose it’s a question of how you prioritise your spending.
02-18-2020, 04:00 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As in cars, people can choose to buy a more modest phone and use it until the software stops working - but few are so disciplined.
That is true.

But the only reason I posted this was someone made a comment about people spending $1000 on a phone and in reality that is not the prevalent behavior.

02-18-2020, 05:49 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by bladerunner6 Quote
That is true.

But the only reason I posted this was someone made a comment about people spending $1000 on a phone and in reality that is not the prevalent behavior.
It's the same thing with lenses, really. You have the 70-200/2.8 zooms, but most people are happy with their 70-300/4-5.6 consumer teles, or with a 70-200/4. And that's when they don't use a "lowly" APS-C 50-200...
02-18-2020, 10:09 AM   #160
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I would like to see this return to the OP’s question for further responses.
02-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by timb64 Quote
Sorry,yes I should have said "median" income,that is the figure given in the actual article not the "average" referred to in the title.Either way it's quite significantly lower, please feel sorry for your Brit cousins
My colleagues (not so much me, as my wife has the health insurance through her job, so I'm "lucky"...) would think hard about trading off the lower median for better health care....so, not feeling so sorry for you Brits just yet. If Brexit goes the way I think it might, maybe I'll start , but then that's self-inflicted.
02-19-2020, 04:28 AM   #162
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We must remember one more point, even two). For many, the phone has become the center of life.Look around and you will see.Socks can be leaky, but the phone should be as good as possible. Plus the image of a successful person...Also, a lot of people have better photos than the Canon 550 with a whale lens or the 70-300 / 4-5.6... They can't be convinced otherwise. The first to die were the compacts that were next in line for the entry-level APS-C.Look at trends.The fact that the photo industry is showing signs of life is only the merit of professionals and wealthy enthusiasts. We'll see what happens next, but in the meantime, lenses with different focal lengths appear on phones, I've even heard about zooms.I do not like this situation but recently I have been increasingly viewed as a marginal person when I say that you can only take photos on the phone when it is absolutely necessary.

---------- Post added 02-19-20 at 04:29 AM ----------

CIPA's 2019 numbers detail worst year of the decade for the camera industry: Digital Photography Review
02-20-2020, 11:36 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone.

Everything is a choice.
It would if the major carriers did not offer 0% financing and 24 months to pay for them (conveniently rolled into their monthly cell phone bill). Most large retailers like Best Buy and Amazon offer their card holders 0% financing and 6, 12, 18, or 24 months to pay especially during the holiday shopping season. Don't have credit? Can't qualify for a monthly cell phone contract? Chances are you are not the owner of a $1000 smart phone. Maybe the camera manufacturers should take a page from the wireless carriers' play book. Offer their cameras with low or 0% financing on an installment plan, sell monthly insurance on them, buy them back at upgrade time, refurbish them and use them for fulfilling insurance claims (that also have a copayment). I bet B&H sold a lot of cameras with their 0% 24-month financing over the holidays.
02-21-2020, 12:27 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
It would if the major carriers did not offer 0% financing and 24 months to pay for them (conveniently rolled into their monthly cell phone bill). Most large retailers like Best Buy and Amazon offer their card holders 0% financing and 6, 12, 18, or 24 months to pay especially during the holiday shopping season. Don't have credit? Can't qualify for a monthly cell phone contract? Chances are you are not the owner of a $1000 smart phone. Maybe the camera manufacturers should take a page from the wireless carriers' play book. Offer their cameras with low or 0% financing on an installment plan, sell monthly insurance on them, buy them back at upgrade time, refurbish them and use them for fulfilling insurance claims (that also have a copayment). I bet B&H sold a lot of cameras with their 0% 24-month financing over the holidays.
0% interest rate and 6, 8, 12, 24 months to pay for what you buy it's a very common option in Romania for pretty much anything, not only for mobile phones. These 0% interest rate offers are developed by banks, not by stores.
02-21-2020, 12:37 AM   #165
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Articulating screen, pentaprism viewfinder, WR. I consider almost everything else defacto standards at this point.
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