[StiffLegged]

Canon Europe confirms its focus is on RF, not EF lenses unless the ?market demand[s] it?: Digital Photography Review If that will calm you down. But I'm not.

I'm not in the least perturbed, never mind bothered. Canon is a brand other people use. This is a very silly thread.

[Ivan]

It's a world of the generation z. The millennials (my generation) are trying to adapt to the new technologies and baby boomers do the same. The ones who don't want to adapt don't seem to have enough force to make a difference. As long as with DSLRs the manufacturers will not be able to implement artificial intelligence or whatever will come next... we may see DSLRs slowly making room for new systems. For the moment there are too many DSLR lenses available on the market so I think that we may see at least a generation of DSLR. For the long term... it's hard to predict.

The conversation is interesting. As I see, the transition to mirrorless systems was obvious about five to six years ago. But large companies didn’t want to admit it because of the large fleet of optics. Canon and Nikon jumped into the last car. I think so). I still remember More recently, there has been talk that mirrorless systems are toys. And here canon says it will produce if there is demand. There is no reason for generations here. This is business, competition. The struggle will be for professionals. Bet on them. For large companies. And the owners of 18 megapixel sensors or eos5m2-3 are not interested in anyone.

---------- Post added 02-14-20 at 04:40 PM ----------

I'm not in the least perturbed, never mind bothered. Canon is a brand other people use. This is a very silly thread.

Yes, of course, I put it wrong. Somehow they started talking for the canon. I do not like this company. I believe that they are deceivers. All of course, but they are more, it's personal)

[Dan Rentea]

The conversation is interesting. As I see, the transition to mirrorless systems was obvious about five to six years ago. But large companies didn’t want to admit it because of the large fleet of optics. Canon and Nikon jumped into the last car. I think so). I still remember More recently, there has been talk that mirrorless systems are toys. And here canon says it will produce if there is demand. There is no reason for generations here. This is business, competition. The struggle will be for professionals. Bet on them. For large companies. And the owners of 18 megapixel sensors or eos5m2-3 are not interested in anyone.

Business and competition comes from demand. Generation z won't buy Canon, Nikon, Pentax, entry level cameras as millennials did 4-6 years ago. They rather invest 1300$ in a smartphone for casual shooting and vlogging. With the Samsung S20 that has 108mp and 100x zoom, entry level APS-C cameras are not interesting to them anymore. And this is a big problem for Canon and Nikon. I see a last attempt of Canon with the new announced Rebel T8i to attract the instagramers with vertical video which seems trending in 2020 for microstock business also. But, when mirrorless cameras comes with things that for gen z are interesting, such eye af, animal af, cloud transfer of images, etc. and with Youtube influencers promoting mirrorless more and more, companies has to go where the demand is. I think that for big companies Nokia is still the best example of what it can happen if you don't adapt.

Canon and Nikon did a smart thing at first by not investing huge amount of money in mirrorless. If you ask me, Sony probably still has to recover some of the huge investment they did, including for the aggresive marketing. Canon and Nikon weren't so smart when comes to timing of entering in the mirrorless market. They should have enter in this market when A7 II, A7R II and A6000 became popular. I don't know about Nikon, but Canon seems more serious in terms of listening what market wants. 1Dx Mark III blows for the first time D6 in terms of specs, the announced R5 looks excelent on paper and also serious competition to Sony who slowed down a little (see A9 vs. A9 II), the RF lenses looks also excelent...

I'm very interested to see what Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, not to mention Olympus will do for the gen z and for the ones that are no longer interested in entry level APS-C cameras which are/were a huge market, especially for Canon and Nikon.

I'm looking at the teens I go out with from time to time to shoot portraits (16-20 years old) and I look also at my nephew (11 years old) and when they have to choose between my 5D Mark IV and EOS R, my 5D is ignored with all my attempts to make it look good. They don't have headaches from EVFs because they grew up with technology (3D glasses, virtual reality, smartphones) and they are attracted to features, even if they don't need them. Mirrorless looks more tech oriented and this is what they want...

So, as a personal opnion, generation z will dictate the market in the next 5 years. By market I mean the one which seems very important to Canon, Nikon and Sony: the entry level market. PRO photographers will adapt and the rest will still have lots of second hand gear to choose from 10-15 years from now.

[Ivan]

You are a photographer. And five years ago I did not know what an expopair is. And yet I do not agree with the swami. I do not think that bloggers will set the tone for the development of the photo business. They can contribute, but no more. Generation z, they will pay any money for the phone, but not for glass, what kind of business can it be. You but you see the market is shrinking, all these first mirrorless cameras from Nikon and Canon are just a test of technology at the expense of the consumer. But then I see a tough fight for professionals. Tracking intelligent autofocus is very cool and you can pay for it. When it's good work. This is for and ... But maybe you're right. Who knows, I have no statistics who buys what. But I heard that bloggers are quite happy with micra. Me by the way too.

---------- Post added 02-14-20 at 06:13 PM ----------

By the way, look at the prices of new entry-level lenses)).I don't know what premium is then.

[redcat]

Business and competition comes from demand. Generation z won't buy Canon, Nikon, Pentax, entry level cameras as millennials did 4-6 years ago. They rather invest 1300$ in a smartphone for casual shooting and vlogging. With the Samsung S20 that has 108mp and 100x zoom, entry level APS-C cameras are not interesting to them anymore. And this is a big problem for Canon and Nikon. I see a last attempt of Canon with the new announced Rebel T8i to attract the instagramers with vertical video which seems trending in 2020 for microstock business also. But, when mirrorless cameras comes with things that for gen z are interesting, such eye af, animal af, cloud transfer of images, etc. and with Youtube influencers promoting mirrorless more and more, companies has to go where the demand is. I think that for big companies Nokia is still the best example of what it can happen if you don't adapt.

Canon and Nikon did a smart thing at first by not investing huge amount of money in mirrorless. If you ask me, Sony probably still has to recover some of the huge investment they did, including for the aggresive marketing. Canon and Nikon weren't so smart when comes to timing of entering in the mirrorless market. They should have enter in this market when A7 II, A7R II and A6000 became popular. I don't know about Nikon, but Canon seems more serious in terms of listening what market wants. 1Dx Mark III blows for the first time D6 in terms of specs, the announced R5 looks excelent on paper and also serious competition to Sony who slowed down a little (see A9 vs. A9 II), the RF lenses looks also excelent...

I'm very interested to see what Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, not to mention Olympus will do for the gen z and for the ones that are no longer interested in entry level APS-C cameras which are/were a huge market, especially for Canon and Nikon.

I'm looking at the teens I go out with from time to time to shoot portraits (16-20 years old) and I look also at my nephew (11 years old) and when they have to choose between my 5D Mark IV and EOS R, my 5D is ignored with all my attempts to make it look good. They don't have headaches from EVFs because they grew up with technology (3D glasses, virtual reality, smartphones) and they are attracted to features, even if they don't need them. Mirrorless looks more tech oriented and this is what they want...

So, as a personal opnion, generation z will dictate the market in the next 5 years. By market I mean the one which seems very important to Canon, Nikon and Sony: the entry level market. PRO photographers will adapt and the rest will still have lots of second hand gear to choose from 10-15 years from now.

100% agreed ! Any camera that is easier to use, faster AF, quicker to upload to social media will win ! if it can make average Joe take high quality pics, imagine the pros with that same camera Apsc Dslr is the past, not sure why Ricoh don't see it yet, mirrorless is the future and it's easier to produce too (less moving parts, lower cost). I really love Pentax and want them to catch up with other big companies. Ricoh has the resource they just need to focus on the right path...

[Ivan]

If you are sure that bloggers will use glasses for two thousand euros, and bodies for two or three, then we have nothing to worry about the photo industry.There are a lot of bloggers, there is enough space for everyone.The main thing is to have Wi-Fi.

[Dan Rentea]

You are a photographer. And five years ago I did not know what an expopair is. And yet I do not agree with the swami. I do not think that bloggers will set the tone for the development of the photo business. They can contribute, but no more. Generation z, they will pay any money for the phone, but not for glass, what kind of business can it be. You but you see the market is shrinking, all these first mirrorless cameras from Nikon and Canon are just a test of technology at the expense of the consumer. But then I see a tough fight for professionals. Tracking intelligent autofocus is very cool and you can pay for it. When it's good work. This is for and ... But maybe you're right. Who knows, I have no statistics who buys what. But I heard that bloggers are quite happy with micra. Me by the way too.

---------- Post added 02-14-20 at 06:13 PM ----------

By the way, look at the prices of new entry-level lenses)).I don't know what premium is then.

The pro market is steady in the sense that no phone will make pro photographers to sell their gear. For the pro segment there is another kind of battle and in this battle you know which feature has a big impact? It's the video... As a microstock contributer, I follow trends and lots of photographers became hibrid shooters due to the market demand.

A big part of the income came from entry level cameras and this is told by manufacturers in every financial report. Cameras like Nikon D3100, Nikon D5100, Canon 1100D, etc. were bought by beginners, by generation z (students, entry level young vloggers, etc.) and soccer moms. This category is shrinking way faster than the pro market and this means less R&D for manufactureres. Look also at what cameras sell in big numbers in Ricoh boat. It's Theta and GR. If entry level DSLRs are not interesting anymore, manufacturers will have to adapt and develop cameras that will keep generation z busy buying their cameras instead of mobile phones. Here is the big battle in my opinion and Canon and Nikon have available only the try and error method for the next 2-4 years.

When comes to millennials, my generation, which seems to be the second best market for manufacturers, we get to choose for now between full frame and DSLR. Nikon is first with the replacement of D750 with D780. Canon seems to push us to the mirrorless boat with the upcoming R5 and we may also see this year a full frame DSLR so that both categories to be happy. As a millennial who shoots with both DSLR and mirrorless, the only thing that still keeps me shooting with my DSLR is the OVF. Yes, the OVF and not the lenses because all my DSLR lenses work flawlessly on my mirrorless camera with the native adapter. This is the only reason and given the fact that 95% of my EVF headaches are gone after using more and more my mirrorless and given the fact that the new EVFs are very good, I will start this year the transition to mirrorless. I know that a lot of people don't think about eye af as a great feature, but for the ones shooting people (animals also in Sony's case) it's a game changer. I loved the eye af idea from beginning but I hated it until the Sony A7III came with their last firmware update. Same for Canon EOS R. Manual focus it's better also on mirrorless cameras and the feature that helps me more than I thought it will is the touch and drag af which makes the af joystick from DSLR slow as a mule.

[Serkevan]

100% agreed ! Any camera that is easier to use, faster AF, quicker to upload to social media will win ! if it can make average Joe take high quality pics, imagine the pros with that same camera Apsc Dslr is the past, not sure why Ricoh don't see it yet, mirrorless is the future and it's easier to produce too (less moving parts, lower cost). I really love Pentax and want them to catch up with other big companies. Ricoh has the resource they just need to focus on the right path...

This begs the question: why do you love Pentax? There are, one could argue, better mirrorless options than what Ricoh could realistically manage within some years. We know how fast lens development is for the K-mount, so any mirrorless offering would have to rely on adapted lenses for what will feel like an eternity. Such a thing would be DOA, I doubt Ricoh will pursue it.

[Ivan]

Yes, but I don't see a struggle for a cheap market. Canon with its lenses is aiming at the Pro segment. So in the Pro segment, everything is not so calm. This is where the battle for survival is expected. Yes, I believe that the question will be about the survival of companies. And it will be solved in the Pro segment. I may be getting ahead of myself. And of course I can be wrong.

[Dan Rentea]

This begs the question: why do you love Pentax? There are, one could argue, better mirrorless options than what Ricoh could realistically manage within some years. We know how fast lens development is for the K-mount, so any mirrorless offering would have to rely on adapted lenses for what will feel like an eternity. Such a thing would be DOA, I doubt Ricoh will pursue it.

Brand addiction, high costs to switch especially because Pentax it's cheaper than competition and you need more money to switch by selling the Pentax gear, old lenses that for some are the reason to shoot Pentax, cheaper prices on Pentax gear, high image quality... These are just a few examples that pop up from time to time in different topics. And there are a lot of people who don't need eye af, fast AF-C or silent shutter...

[Ivan]

I will add from myself. I like the color. I don't have a lot of time to make corrections in photoshop. I don't know how. Minimal post processing in the Raw. And I like the result. The most beautiful portraits of my children with Pentax.Old terrible K7.

[surfar]

Yes, but I don't see a struggle for a cheap market. Canon with its lenses is aiming at the Pro segment. So in the Pro segment, everything is not so calm. This is where the battle for survival is expected. Yes, I believe that the question will be about the survival of companies. And it will be solved in the Pro segment. I may be getting ahead of myself. And of course I can be wrong.

You may have to realign you view by end of this year regarding the Canon mount.

First year was basic cameras and high end glass,this year is higher level bodies and consumer orienated lenses..

[Dan Rentea]

Yes, but I don't see a struggle for a cheap market. Canon with its lenses is aiming at the Pro segment. So in the Pro segment, everything is not so calm. This is where the battle for survival is expected. Yes, I believe that the question will be about the survival of companies. And it will be solved in the Pro segment. I may be getting ahead of myself. And of course I can be wrong.

EOS RP, Z6 are the way I see Canon and Nikon fight for the new entry level market. It seems that they try to attract generation z with affordable full frame cameras that offer both video and photo capabilities in small bodies.

[redcat]

Many reason to like Pentax, good price, good image quality, rugged body, dual card slot, Ibis, and especially the lens: small, sharp where focused and creamy bokeh everywhere else (i shoot portrait). I can't stand the monstrous sized lens on mirrorless camera right now, if only they have the trio like 43, 31, 77.... and the switch is so expensive, i'd loose 1/3 to 1/2 of what i paid (main reason not to switch yet) !!! but now that i shoot my kids more the slow AF from Pentax body really slow me down in many cases, it's very sad. The fast and accurate eyeAF on mirrorless is just a game changer !

[Ivan]

Perhaps we will see how they will fight with mobile phones