What are your DSLR dealbreakers?

Ivan · 02-17-2020, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by bladerunner6

It may seem funny but many people on gear forums don’t appreciate the importance of affordability.

Median US household income was $63K in 2018.

U.S. Median Household Income Was $63,179 in 2018, Not Significantly Different From 2017

Figure in food, clothing, shelter, transportation, health care, insurance, communication services, saving for retirement and taxes that does not leave a great many people with the ability to buy a $1500 camera body.

I immediately understood the irony. You're right. This is the first time I have come across this argument, it is simple and clear.

**ThorSanchez** · 02-17-2020, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by bladerunner6

It may seem funny but many people on gear forums don’t appreciate the importance of affordability.

Median US household income was $63K in 2018.

U.S. Median Household Income Was $63,179 in 2018, Not Significantly Different From 2017

Figure in food, clothing, shelter, transportation, health care, insurance, communication services, saving for retirement and taxes that does not leave a great many people with the ability to buy a $1500 camera body.

The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country.

The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%.

texandrews · 02-17-2020, 09:55 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country.

The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%.

Those numbers are very low. For the former, I'd say top 40-50%, depending on a lot of factors---singles living in less expensive places maybe could easily afford it, families with several kids in an expensive place would have more trouble. And I think really it's similar for the $1,500.00 camera.

bladerunner6 · 02-17-2020, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country.

The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%.

Your numbers are completely hypothetical.

I can also add that Costco typical customer has an income of $100K.

And the cameras I see pallets of on Black Friday are the $500 two lens kits from Canikon.

I am at lunch and don’t have a lot of time to wrap thorough message so I may return to this later.

bladerunner6 · 02-17-2020, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

Those numbers are very low. For the former, I'd say top 40-50%, depending on a lot of factors---singles living in less expensive places maybe could easily afford it, families with several kids in an expensive place would have more trouble. And I think really it's similar for the $1,500.00 camera.

Again, that is pretty much speculation.

bladerunner6 · 02-17-2020, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Ivan

I immediately understood the irony. You're right. This is the first time I have come across this argument, it is simple and clear.

Thank you. It is good to know there are other people that understand this.

I see people on DPR with literally 30K of gear. And all too often their response to people’s budget are ignored.

I know, it happened to me there.

And it also happened on the AVSForum when I was shopping for home theater gear.

**monochrome** · 02-17-2020, 10:39 AM - **1 Like**

A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone.

Everything is a choice.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-17-2020 at 10:45 AM.

**ThorSanchez** · 02-17-2020, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by bladerunner6

Your numbers are completely hypothetical.

I can also add that Costco typical customer has an income of $100K.

And the cameras I see pallets of on Black Friday are the $500 two lens kits from Canikon.

I am at lunch and don’t have a lot of time to wrap thorough message so I may return to this later.

Hypothetical? Perhaps. Certainly not grounded in binders full of research. But I think we pretty safe to assume that today's ILCs aren't primarily targeted at folks making $35k a year.

---------- Post added 02-17-20 at 01:03 PM ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone.

Everything is a choice.

For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV.

**monochrome** · 02-17-2020, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV.

Thus a smartphone is their choice.

bladerunner6 · 02-17-2020, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

Hypothetical? Perhaps. Certainly not grounded in binders full of research. But I think we pretty safe to assume that today's ILCs aren't primarily targeted at folks making $35k a year.

---------- Post added 02-17-20 at 01:03 PM ----------

For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV.

And in addition to the magnitudes greater importance of a smartphone not all of them cost $1000.

This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime | Fox Business

bertwert · 02-17-2020, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by bladerunner6

This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime | Fox Business

That's to an extreme. My current phone costs $130 and a plan of $12/month. I'll easily have it for five years.

$850 for five years. Or $10200 for 60 years.

Still a fair bit, but $65000, or 7.5 times, less than that estimate.

**luftfluss** · 02-17-2020, 01:03 PM - **2 Likes**

Huh, so in this conversation smartphones really have replaced dedicated cameras.

**Serkevan** · 02-17-2020, 01:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

Thus a smartphone is their choice.

I, too, also like to watch Netflix on my camera's LCD.

**monochrome** · 02-17-2020, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by bladerunner6

And in addition to the magnitudes greater importance of a smartphone not all of them cost $1000.

This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime | Fox Business

As in cars, people can choose to buy a more modest phone and use it until the software stops working - but few are so disciplined.

camera_nut · 02-17-2020, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone.

Everything is a choice.

l won't spend more than 200usd on a phone. Why? Because they're disposable. l only keep a phone for about 2 years.

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02-17-2020, 07:57 AM	#136
Ivan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Moscow Posts: 639	Originally posted by bladerunner6 It may seem funny but many people on gear forums don’t appreciate the importance of affordability. Median US household income was $63K in 2018. U.S. Median Household Income Was $63,179 in 2018, Not Significantly Different From 2017 Figure in food, clothing, shelter, transportation, health care, insurance, communication services, saving for retirement and taxes that does not leave a great many people with the ability to buy a $1500 camera body. I immediately understood the irony. You're right. This is the first time I have come across this argument, it is simple and clear.

02-17-2020, 09:25 AM	#137
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,805	Originally posted by bladerunner6 It may seem funny but many people on gear forums don’t appreciate the importance of affordability. Median US household income was $63K in 2018. U.S. Median Household Income Was $63,179 in 2018, Not Significantly Different From 2017 Figure in food, clothing, shelter, transportation, health care, insurance, communication services, saving for retirement and taxes that does not leave a great many people with the ability to buy a $1500 camera body. The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country. The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%.

02-17-2020, 09:55 AM - 1 Like	#138
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by ThorSanchez The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country. The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%. Those numbers are very low. For the former, I'd say top 40-50%, depending on a lot of factors---singles living in less expensive places maybe could easily afford it, families with several kids in an expensive place would have more trouble. And I think really it's similar for the $1,500.00 camera.

02-17-2020, 10:16 AM	#139
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by ThorSanchez The primary target market for a $750 camera is probably the top ~20% of incomes in a western, first world country. The target for a $1500 camera has to be the top 5-10%. Your numbers are completely hypothetical. I can also add that Costco typical customer has an income of $100K. And the cameras I see pallets of on Black Friday are the $500 two lens kits from Canikon. I am at lunch and don’t have a lot of time to wrap thorough message so I may return to this later.

02-17-2020, 10:27 AM	#140
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by texandrews Those numbers are very low. For the former, I'd say top 40-50%, depending on a lot of factors---singles living in less expensive places maybe could easily afford it, families with several kids in an expensive place would have more trouble. And I think really it's similar for the $1,500.00 camera. Again, that is pretty much speculation.

02-17-2020, 10:32 AM	#141
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Ivan I immediately understood the irony. You're right. This is the first time I have come across this argument, it is simple and clear. Thank you. It is good to know there are other people that understand this. I see people on DPR with literally 30K of gear. And all too often their response to people’s budget are ignored. I know, it happened to me there. And it also happened on the AVSForum when I was shopping for home theater gear.

02-17-2020, 10:39 AM - 1 Like	#142
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone. Everything is a choice. Last edited by monochrome; 02-17-2020 at 10:45 AM.

02-17-2020, 11:01 AM	#143
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,805	Originally posted by bladerunner6 Your numbers are completely hypothetical. I can also add that Costco typical customer has an income of $100K. And the cameras I see pallets of on Black Friday are the $500 two lens kits from Canikon. I am at lunch and don’t have a lot of time to wrap thorough message so I may return to this later. Hypothetical? Perhaps. Certainly not grounded in binders full of research. But I think we pretty safe to assume that today's ILCs aren't primarily targeted at folks making $35k a year. ---------- Post added 02-17-20 at 01:03 PM ---------- Originally posted by monochrome A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone. Everything is a choice. For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV.

02-17-2020, 11:12 AM	#144
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by ThorSanchez For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV. Thus a smartphone is their choice.

02-17-2020, 11:21 AM	#145
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by ThorSanchez Hypothetical? Perhaps. Certainly not grounded in binders full of research. But I think we pretty safe to assume that today's ILCs aren't primarily targeted at folks making $35k a year. ---------- Post added 02-17-20 at 01:03 PM ---------- For many people a smartphone has taken the place of a phone, camera, computer, and often a TV. And in addition to the magnitudes greater importance of a smartphone not all of them cost $1000. This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime \| Fox Business

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02-17-2020, 11:30 AM	#146
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	Originally posted by bladerunner6 This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime \| Fox Business That's to an extreme. My current phone costs $130 and a plan of $12/month. I'll easily have it for five years. $850 for five years. Or $10200 for 60 years. Still a fair bit, but $65000, or 7.5 times, less than that estimate.

02-17-2020, 01:03 PM - 2 Likes	#147
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Huh, so in this conversation smartphones really have replaced dedicated cameras.

02-17-2020, 01:45 PM - 1 Like	#148
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by monochrome Thus a smartphone is their choice. I, too, also like to watch Netflix on my camera's LCD.

02-17-2020, 02:11 PM	#149
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by bladerunner6 And in addition to the magnitudes greater importance of a smartphone not all of them cost $1000. This is how much your smartphone really costs over a lifetime \| Fox Business As in cars, people can *choose* to buy a more modest phone and use it until the software stops working - but few are so disciplined.

02-17-2020, 04:34 PM	#150
camera_nut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: North Houston, TX Posts: 155 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome A smartphone is $1,000 these days. Doesn’t seem to stop anyone. Everything is a choice. l won't spend more than 200usd on a phone. Why? Because they're disposable. l only keep a phone for about 2 years.