Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-28-2020, 09:30 AM   #61
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteQuote:
Actually, my understanding was that Pentax is by corporate policy an ILC (Interchangeable Lens Camera) company. Remember the K-01? Remember the Q system?
Are you sure those weren't implemented by Hoya? I can't remember.

There has been no development of mirrorless from Pentax for a very long time.

QuoteQuote:
2011: The world's smallest and lightest interchangeable lens camera (ILC) in a body significantly smaller than every other digital ILC body available on the market. That camera was the Pentax Q[3]
QuoteQuote:
2012: The first mirrorless camera to natively support a SLR lens lineup. This camera was the K-01[9]
The first reports of a sale by Hoya is July 2011, it's unlikely any mirrorless development was taken after that time. But they did bring what was already in the works to market, then pretty much abandoned them.
Pentax cameras - Wikipedia
https://www.reuters.com/article/ricoh-hoya/ricoh-to-buy-hoyas-pentax-camera-...7HL01320110701


Last edited by normhead; 04-28-2020 at 11:57 AM.
04-28-2020, 10:15 AM   #62
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,650
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Vertigo? I’ve never experienced even a hint of that with any of the several EVF-based cameras that I have owned (Olympus, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Sony). The only real negative I can say is that outdoors in the bright Texas sun they sometimes are a bit dim — though still always usable — in comparison with a bright, beautiful pentaprism. This is why I have a wide-brimmed hat. A photographer’s hat.

But here is the critical thing for me… I like manual focus. I don’t really trust the autofocus of any camera (with the possible exception of my Pentax Q7!), and I’m not sure I ever will. Maybe someday they’ll invent a telepathic camera that can read my mind and know what I want to focus on? Anyhow, I learned photography on a film SLR (Sears KS-2, AKA Ricoh XR7), and it was manual focus with a great split-prism and micro-prism focusing screen, and it was aperture priority. I liked that. That’s the shooting experience I still prefer. It’s not always fast and convenient, but when I have time I can be certain of getting exactly the shot I want.

DSLRs are pretty bad when it comes to manual focus. (Even with autofocus you have to go through an involved and tedious calibration process to get it really accurate, but that’s another rant.) The prism focusing screens I loved so much are mostly a thing of the past. When the K1 came out, it was my last great hope for a DSLR that I could fall in love with. But Katz Eye had just gone out of business, and then we learned that the K1’s focusing screen was not swappable, and I just threw my hands in the air and gave up.

A few days ago I got a Voigtländer Nokton 40mm f/1.2 for my Sony. It has manual focus, manual aperture ring, build quality like a Takumar, but also electronic communication with the camera body. So, the camera knows the lens identity, focal length, focal distance, aperture setting. It can automatically use sensor stabilization. When I turn the aperture ring, I see it change in the viewfinder, just like my old Sears KS-2 that had a little witness hole for that purpose. When I turn the focus ring, the EVF magnifies automatically. I have focus peaking in the EVF. It's a better shooting experience than my old film SLR, and Pentax haven’t produced anything that can match it.

Oh, and of course I can also see a useful approximation of the image exposure and adjust as needed. Plus I can get zebra stripes, or a histogram, or a level line, or a grid.

Whenever I use the little Q7, I'm reminded of all the things I really liked, and sometimes miss, about Pentax: the ergonomics and controls, the user interface, the DNG files, the color rendering, the in-body raw development, the intervalometer… and this forum too, which is a fantastic resource that I don’t think any other brand has anything comparable to. I liked all of those things, but I like my EVF more. A lot more. I’m not going back to a pentaprism.
Right on! I like the EVF on my Samsung NX1 too much to go back to prisms for manual focusing. An EVF means that using my collection of MF lenses is a pleasant experience.

I wear glasses and a pentaprism is a bit of a hassle. Relying on a modern DSLR focusing screen is a mixed bag. You can slowly rock back and forth and watch the focus confirmation - much slower than focus peaking. Or you can switch to live view, but then you have turned your SLR into a mirrorless.

For now, I will keep using my Pentax DSLRs with AF lenses. But my next big purchase will need to have an EVF. It would be nice if it said Pentax on the box...
04-28-2020, 10:54 AM - 1 Like   #63
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
c.a.m's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,172
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
A few days ago I got a Voigtländer Nokton 40mm f/1.2 for my Sony. It has manual focus, manual aperture ring, build quality like a Takumar, but also electronic communication with the camera body. So, the camera knows the lens identity, focal length, focal distance, aperture setting. It can automatically use sensor stabilization. When I turn the aperture ring, I see it change in the viewfinder, just like my old Sears KS-2 that had a little witness hole for that purpose. When I turn the focus ring, the EVF magnifies automatically. I have focus peaking in the EVF. It's a better shooting experience than my old film SLR, and Pentax haven’t produced anything that can match it.
Thanks for describing your experience with the lens and your Sony camera. Sounds like focusing manually is quite enjoyable. I found a similar experience when I tried my son's Fuji X-T3. In fact, I was impressed with the ease of focusing manually through the viewfinder, and ended up giving him one of my Pentax-M 50/1.7s along with an adapter. He likes it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Relying on a modern DSLR focusing screen is a mixed bag. You can slowly rock back and forth and watch the focus confirmation - much slower than focus peaking.
As for focusing manually through the viewfinder on my K-3 II, an accurate and precise method is described here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/53-pentax-dslr-camera-articles/402086-ac...n-hexagon.html. As the article explains, a rigorous approach is needed to calibrate each lens and apply the technique in the field. Some folks would find it tedious, and mirrorless cameras have an advantage in that they generally don't require focus calibration.


QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Everyone complained about poor battery life of the Sony A7 series, until Sony switched to a battery that's about twice the size. Then the complaints ended.
I haven't been following the earlier complaints about Sony's battery life per se. However, it seems that most of the models in the Sony A7 and A9 lines have had significantly less battery life than, say, the Pentax K-1. The closest spec that I've seen indicates that the A7 III has a CIPA rating of 610 shots (using the EVF), compared to 760 for the K-1. That's getting close. The other models have ratings between 270 shots (e.g., A7, A7R, A7 II) and 530 (A7R IV). The Nikon Z7 is rated at 330 shots, the Z6 310, and the Z50 280. The Canon R is rated at 350 and the RP at 210 in its default mode or 250 in "power saving" mode (that's not a typo -- 210). For Canon, saving power buys only 20% more battery life.

Of course, the battery rating by itself doesn't suggest anything about a user's field experience or satisfaction with the lower battery life, which is significantly lower in many cases.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
An EVF means that using my collection of MF lenses is a pleasant experience.
Returning to the subject of this thread -- the fStoppers blog article -- I find it interesting that the article doesn't mention the type of positive EVF experiences that are described here, despite the obvious benefits for using manual focus lenses. On the other hand, Pentax DSLRs are sort of hybrids -- they provide optical viewfinding as well as the advantages of electronic display through Live View. A lot of my landscape work is done on a tripod, and I frequently use manual focus lenses. Live View works very well in this mode.

For landscape and other photography done primarily on a tripod, I can't think of how a 'mirrorless' camera would offer any significant advantage over a comparable DSLR. The fStoppers article is silent on this aspect, conveniently ignoring the strengths that Pentax DSLRs have in this area.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 04-28-2020 at 01:02 PM.
04-28-2020, 11:29 AM - 3 Likes   #64
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Or you can switch to live view, but then you have turned your SLR into a mirrorless.
No, you still have an OVF when you want it. There's the difference.
Going the other way, you can't turn your mirrorless into a camera with an OVF.
I sure get tired of stating the obvious.


---------- Post added 04-28-20 at 02:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
The fStoppers article is silent on this aspect.
There's nothing as dangerous as folks who don't know what they don't know.

04-28-2020, 12:05 PM - 1 Like   #65
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 27,603
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Vertigo? I’ve never experienced even a hint of that with any of the several EVF-based cameras that I have owned (Olympus, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Sony). The only real negative I can say is that outdoors in the bright Texas sun they sometimes are a bit dim — though still always usable — in comparison with a bright, beautiful pentaprism. This is why I have a wide-brimmed hat. A photographer’s hat.


But here is the critical thing for me… I like manual focus. I don’t really trust the autofocus of any camera (with the possible exception of my Pentax Q7!), and I’m not sure I ever will. Maybe someday they’ll invent a telepathic camera that can read my mind and know what I want to focus on? Anyhow, I learned photography on a film SLR (Sears KS-2, AKA Ricoh XR7), and it was manual focus with a great split-prism and micro-prism focusing screen, and it was aperture priority. I liked that. That’s the shooting experience I still prefer. It’s not always fast and convenient, but when I have time I can be certain of getting exactly the shot I want.

DSLRs are pretty bad when it comes to manual focus. (Even with autofocus you have to go through an involved and tedious calibration process to get it really accurate, but that’s another rant.) The prism focusing screens I loved so much are mostly a thing of the past. When the K1 came out, it was my last great hope for a DSLR that I could fall in love with. But Katz Eye had just gone out of business, and then we learned that the K1’s focusing screen was not swappable, and I just threw my hands in the air and gave up.

A few days ago I got a Voigtländer Nokton 40mm f/1.2 for my Sony. It has manual focus, manual aperture ring, build quality like a Takumar, but also electronic communication with the camera body. So, the camera knows the lens identity, focal length, focal distance, aperture setting. It can automatically use sensor stabilization. When I turn the aperture ring, I see it change in the viewfinder, just like my old Sears KS-2 that had a little witness hole for that purpose. When I turn the focus ring, the EVF magnifies automatically. I have focus peaking in the EVF. It's a better shooting experience than my old film SLR, and Pentax haven’t produced anything that can match it.

Oh, and of course I can also see a useful approximation of the image exposure and adjust as needed. Plus I can get zebra stripes, or a histogram, or a level line, or a grid.


Whenever I use the little Q7, I'm reminded of all the things I really liked, and sometimes miss, about Pentax: the ergonomics and controls, the user interface, the DNG files, the color rendering, the in-body raw development, the intervalometer… and this forum too, which is a fantastic resource that I don’t think any other brand has anything comparable to. I liked all of those things, but I like my EVF more. A lot more. I’m not going back to a pentaprism.

---------- Post added 04-28-20 at 10:28 AM ----------



Actually, my understanding was that Pentax is by corporate policy an ILC (Interchangeable Lens Camera) company. Remember the K-01? Remember the Q system?


No more compacts, point-and-shoots, bridge cameras, action cameras, etc. The GR series will keep its Ricoh badge. But if Ricoh ever do a(nother) mirrorless system camera, it should be sold as a Pentax.

---------- Post added 04-28-20 at 10:40 AM ----------



Everyone complained about poor battery life of the Sony A7 series, until Sony switched to a battery that's about twice the size. Then the complaints ended.

Fujifilm: “Are… are we out of touch? No. No, it’s the customers who are wrong. Just like they are wrong to want full frame.”
It is clear that you connect well with EVFs. In fact, you prefer them, but EVF versus OVF debate isn't really solvable, unless somehow someone comes up with some sort of a hybrid option that combines the best of both worlds. Otherwise, some of us do get headaches and eye strain from EVFs. Personally, I don't use manual focus either and the benefits of an EVF are few for me, while the discomfort is real.

That doesn't mean that that is true for anyone else, but I have heard enough on the Forum to know not everyone enjoys using EVFs, even if they have an amazing amount of information displayed thereon.
04-28-2020, 12:54 PM   #66
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2019
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,976
QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I haven't been following the earlier complaints about Sony's battery life per se. However, it seems that most of the models in the Sony A7 and A9 lines have had significantly less battery life than, say, the Pentax K-1. The closest spec that I've seen indicates that the A7 III has a CIPA rating of 610 shots (using the EVF), compared to 760 for the K-1. That's getting close. The other models have ratings between 270 shots (e.g., A7, A7R, A7 II) and 530 (A7R IV). The Nikon Z7 is rated at 330 shots, the Z6 310, and the Z50 280. The Canon R is rated at 350 and the RP at 210 in its default mode or 250 in "power saving" mode (that's not a typo -- 210). For Canon, saving power buys only 20% more battery life.
And the K-1 actually has very low battery life for full-frame DSLR standards - probably because of IBIS. The Canon 5D IV is rated for 900 shots (the 6D Mk.II for 1200), the Nikon D850 for 1840 (!) and the D780 for 2260 (!!!).
04-28-2020, 03:58 PM - 1 Like   #67
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 16,394
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
But here is the critical thing for me… I like manual focus.
So do I, Tony, and I have no problem with all my manual lenses, both old ones like the K series and modern ones like my Samsungs and my Irix.

For general compositions, focus confirmation is fast, for critical stuff (I want *that* eye in focus, that one not), I use magnified Live View, it is no different from the EVFs on my Sonys (I have three of them, BTW, so I know you're wrong!). And if somebody says they really need to put their eye right up to the Live View screen, that's exactly what a Hoodman loupe does - I have a clone, but I rarely use it.

In Manual Mode, Live View automatically gives you a simulated exposure, too.

With every DSLR, you get an EVF, but no MILC comes with a mirror, with a completely dedicated autofocus module, not robbing as many as 12 percent of the pixels from the sensor along with a guessing game that can mean artifacts in the RAW files!


QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Everyone complained about poor battery life of the Sony A7 series, until Sony switched to a battery that's about twice the size. Then the complaints ended.
They did not. There are complaints about the A9 that it doesn't really matter if you take one or one hundred photos, it runs out in a couple of hours. That's because unlike a DSLR, it has to keep scanning even when a picture hasn't been taken. It'


Last edited by clackers; 04-28-2020 at 10:29 PM.
04-29-2020, 03:18 AM - 1 Like   #68
Veteran Member
MJKoski's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,784
There is rather easy solution for Pentax to remain supreme - offer functionality nothing else does. Start with large set of field camera movements using sensor movements. Next, provide one-shot pixel shift to keep resolution at current level with huge boost in color accuracy and sharpness. Also, do what Sigma does - offer full-spectrum cameras straight out of the box with factory attached hot-mirror filter removable/attachable by the user.
04-29-2020, 07:03 AM   #69
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Baltimore
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,383
QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
There is rather easy solution for Pentax to remain supreme - offer functionality nothing else does. Start with large set of field camera movements using sensor movements. Next, provide one-shot pixel shift to keep resolution at current level with huge boost in color accuracy and sharpness. Also, do what Sigma does - offer full-spectrum cameras straight out of the box with factory attached hot-mirror filter removable/attachable by the user.
Excellent ideas. Yes, I think the way forward for Pentax is to "rock the niche", but add to it as you have suggested. I'm no engineer, so can't speak to the actual feasibility of your specific suggestions, but I use my cameras, a Z and an upgraded K1, in a particular professional setting in which both cameras shine and would benefit from these sorts of suggestions. They'd shine more with a few additional tweaks---and none of that would require going mirrorless. And I have nothing against mirrorless, but with everyone chasing after that now I think a small company like Pentax would be better served following a different drummer.
05-14-2020, 10:32 PM   #70
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 390
An article that has a poll that does not offer a choice such as : Pentax should continue in the same business path, Or... you are pleased with Pentax’s current Lineup and direction....can be interpreted as being nothing other than biased. I also find it interesting that when discussing cameras, camera users, or sales, the parts of the world where Pentax is popular is never discussed. It is possible the brand will become extinct one day...I am just happy that has not happened yet. But wouldn’t it be interesting if one of the other big ones but the dust....how would these media writers explain it?
05-15-2020, 02:43 AM   #71
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 27,603
Interesting that Pentax just teased three new lenses along with clear indication that they are planning to release a new (SLR!) camera sometime later this year. Not sure that fits with a "dying" brand.

Clearly they have things they are working on, they just are pretty tight lipped about them.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, battery, camera, cameras, dslr, dslrs, evf, experience, focus, mirrorless, ovf, pentax, photography, post, ricoh, sony
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
“World’s Best” photographers are sticking with DSLRs – Fstoppers RobA_Oz Photographic Industry and Professionals 45 04-30-2019 03:12 PM
fstoppers k1man General Photography 6 02-24-2019 12:09 PM
Fstoppers - "Lens compression doesn't exist" awscreo General Photography 98 07-26-2018 12:08 AM
Fstoppers Reviews the Pentax K-1 Winder Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 173 08-23-2016 06:06 AM
For Sale - Sold: SMC D FA MACRO 1:2.8 100 mm WR -----PRICE DROPPED again- again-again-again watchman323 Sold Items 12 12-09-2013 11:18 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:36 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top