[FozzFoster]

Thanks for pointing that out. I just bought my wife an iPhone 11. I will have to see what she has it set to for image saving.

You'll be presented with two options "High Efficiency" and "Most Compatible" haha.
However, many applications automatically convert the HEIF into a JPEG once moved outside of the native environment.

I bet many of you are using it already (with satisfactory results) without even knowing.

[normhead]

I'm not enthused about the new format. Saving some space is pretty much the only advantage.

Read the Netflix article. You can go either way on that. You can save space.. or you can get much cleaner images for the same amount of space. It's your choice.

https://www.howtogeek.com/345504/how-to-open-heic-files-on-windows-or-convert-them-to-jpeg/

What's the issue?

[Wheatfield]

You only hear about people who fall off the trampolines... never hear about the countless people who just had plain jumping fun...

JPEG is the default on new dSLRs, RAW being a selectable feature... is JPEG being imposed on dSLRs?

Saving space is a huge advantage, if the only. And if not HEIF format, then another could/should take it's place...

I think the concern is that cell phone users are, as a group, less concerned about what is going on behind the scenes in their devices. I've never heard someone outside of camera users discussing file formats. It's just not on the radar of cell phone users, and won't be until something comes along to put it there. Wanting to print a picture and not being able to because a proprietary format cannot be parsed by the printer is such an instance.
This was why I switched from PEF files to DNG files. I bought a K10, and it was months before Adobe introduced PEF support for that camera. By the time that support came along, I had moved on permanently from the PEF format.

Not too many cell phone users are going to care about the format their images are saved in, and it would surprise me not at all if there is a file conversion engine built into devices to convert from one format to another on the fly when images are exported to ensure compatibility with the standards of the industry at large.

---------- Post added Aug 18th, 2020 at 11:19 AM ----------

You'll be presented with two options "High Efficiency" and "Most Compatible" haha.
However, many applications automatically convert the HEIF into a JPEG once moved outside of the native environment.

I bet many of you are using it already (with satisfactory results) without even knowing.

That's really clever of them. It's like the new and improved label being put bottles of processed cheese spread, when the improvement is more whipping to get a higher level of air entrainment, thereby making less product take up the same amount of space.

[boriscleto]

PNG is a different story compared to JPG - lossless compression and transparency are major very important differences. I'd say it's mostly a format for graphics design.

PNG was created to get around the Unisys patent on LZW compression as used in GIF. In the late 90s they forced Compuserve to pay for a license and every website using transparent GIFs was at risk of a lawsuit. I wasn't suggesting PNG was created as a JPEG replacement...

[acoufap]

PNG was created to get around the Unisys patent on LZW compression as used in GIF. In the late 90s they forced Compuserve to pay for a license and every website using transparent GIFs was at risk of a lawsuit. I wasn't suggesting PNG was created as a JPEG replacement...

Oh, I think I wasn't suggesting you were wrong. - It was just an addition to get clear that PNG was and is not a JPG competitor but has special properties for other purposes than photography.

[FozzFoster]

That's really clever of them. It's like the new and improved label being put bottles of processed cheese spread, when the improvement is more whipping to get a higher level of air entrainment, thereby making less product take up the same amount of space.

Your sarcasm, and the point to your analogy, are well taken

In this case, I maintain, keep using HEIF files.
I bet your computer's photo viewer is entirely compatible (if you use a modern viewer).
When transferring the file out of your iPhone, go to Settings > Photos. Select 'Keep Originals' under Transfer to MAC or PC option.
This will keep the transferred file as a HEIF instead of 'whipping up' the file with 'air entrainment'

[ThorSanchez]

I honestly don't understand the push-back on a high efficiency file format that retains quality... (???)

It's fine in a vacuum. But does my phone support it? Does RawTherapee support it? Does my online photo repository support it? Does my camera support it? What else that I haven't thought of is hard-coded for jpegs and will require some kind of annoying work-around so that my photo files can be 5-10% smaller, when 1 TB hard drives are very cheap?

There have been higher efficiency file formats for years, but they never got adopted because jpeg meets user requirements the vast majority of the time and everything supports it.

---------- Post added 08-18-20 at 02:33 PM ----------

No other company would ever do that given a choice.

The groans of the lower level service manufacturers companies complaining because Apple does what they never do. When you have a problem with Apple product you never get the "it's the software - it's the hardware" run around. It's their hardware, if you run their software it works, no compatibility issues, no run around. PC dudes are still jealous, and still trotting out the old "I'm so smart and have so much free time I can do anything I could do on an Apple." I don't have to be smart or have the time to mess around. I still have 10 year old machines, running flawlessly that have never had a maintenance or tech support issue

Your bias is showing...

I'm sure it is, and I don't really care. I have a smoking fast Linux machine, and I wouldn't trade it for an Apple if you paid me to do it!

All I know is that the US government (my employer) makes me have an iPhone, and I really don't see any advantages to it over my four-year-old Google Pixel. And the disadvantages include having an entirely different charging setup from my family's Android phones in my car, home, and office.

[Wheatfield]

Your sarcasm, and the point to your analogy, are well taken

In this case, I maintain, keep using HEIF files.
I bet your computer's photo viewer is entirely compatible (if you use a modern viewer).
When transferring the file out of your iPhone, go to Settings > Photos. Select 'Keep Originals' under Transfer to MAC or PC option.
This will keep the transferred file as a HEIF instead of 'whipping up' the file with 'air entrainment'

I don't see any reason to change. Sometimes new and improved really is improved. As long as I can read them in CS6 for the rare occasion she wants a print, I'm happy with whatever her phone does, and my wife isn't one of the techy types that thinks about what is going on under the hood..
I use an Android, so I expect my phone still makes jpegs. I don't even know.

[FozzFoster]

But does my phone support it? Does RawTherapee support it? Does my online photo repository support it? Does my camera support it?

Probably, probably, probably, probably not.
Windows Photo Viewer can natively open HEIC files... Lightroom opens them no problem. If RawTherapee can't then I say it's time for them to make an update available..
The only one in that list that nearly certainly not compatible is your camera. And then still. How often do you take an image off your computer and store it on your camera to show around?

What else that I haven't thought of is hard-coded for jpegs and will require some kind of annoying work-around so that my photo files can be 5-10% smaller,

First, I'm not talking about a 5% storage improvement. I'm talking half files sizes; 100% improvement.
Second, does your smokin' fast Linux machine have a native floppy disk drive? Does it have a native CD drive? Or do you have some other annoying work-around to access other old tech? My computer rig doesn't have an external disk reader... my car doesn't accept them either...

---------- Post added 08-18-20 at 01:10 PM ----------

I use an Android, so I expect my phone still makes jpegs. I don't even know.

My friend, Android also supports HEIF photos; after the Andriod 8.0 release:
https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/media-formats

[PDL]

Would all the present images in those galleries need to be reformatted or would it be sufficient to merely adopt support for new imaging formats?
Right now, the internet is primarily JPEG, with the occasional PNG file tossed in. I don't think it matters to the casual consumer of images what the format is, as long as it can be parsed by their browser.
Most web browsing these days is hit and run stuff being done on smallish cell phone screens.
Consequently, I don't think the file format that internet images are packaged in makes all that much difference. The average user isn't aware, and certainly doesn't care. All they care about is that they get their daily dose of Grumpy Cat delivered to their screen in time for morning coffee break.

<snark>
Just wait until Apple shows its "courage" by not including JPEG rendering.
</snark>
Just like they did with, USB interfaces (i.e. more than one), SD Card slots, Optical drives, headphone jacks etc. Now just wait for the surprises that will occur when Apple dumps Intel for their proprietary CPU's. Four years and all of you Mac users will have to buy new computers since Intel code will not be supported. Your use, if you are on a Mac, of CS6 will not be supported on the new platform. No boot camp, no VM's - welcome to the Brave New Mindset.

[maw]

Android also supports HEIF photos; after the Andriod 8.0 release

Luckily I still use Android 6, and I'm not too worried about it.

As long as my SLR cameras are taking pictures in Jpeg and Dng (or Pef), where is the problem?

There are viewers, or rather codecs inside the programs, maybe in mine is already installed, currently I use the Windows 10 pro 2004 version, build 19.041.450

Extension HEIF

So he tells me it's already installed, negligible problem, don't worry.

Ciao a tutti.

[Wheatfield]

<snark>
Just wait until Apple shows its "courage" by not including JPEG rendering.
</snark>
Just like they did with, USB interfaces (i.e. more than one), SD Card slots, Optical drives, headphone jacks etc. Now just wait for the surprises that will occur when Apple dumps Intel for their proprietary CPU's. Four years and all of you Mac users will have to buy new computers since Intel code will not be supported. Your use, if you are on a Mac, of CS6 will not be supported on the new platform. No boot camp, no VM's - welcome to the Brave New Mindset.

You are being snarky. You didn't even reply to the post you quoted...

[bobmaxja]

Wow, I was not expecting so much comment.
One thing is for sure JPEG is not going away and all computers can continue to read them. AVIF is just a new codec that can bo use in the future and can be read by all browser and video and image editing software. Nobody said that your computer will not read your JPEG from your DSLR.

[FozzFoster]

welcome to the Brave New Mindset.

don't think that's the way it'll pan out, even if that's not quite the post-Steve Jobs vision for Apple...

[PDL]

You are being snarky. You didn't even reply to the post you quoted...

You do not understand snark at my level.

---------- Post added 08-18-20 at 08:50 PM ----------

don't think that's the way it'll pan out, even if that's not quite the post-Steve Jobs vision for Apple...

Just wait, four or five years is a long time in internet years. Apple needs to establish its "courage" now and again.