[Wasp]

I came across an interesting post on a computer forum this week. I lurk there because they have ads for gear. This guy had found some "antique" gear and was looking for advice on selling it. He asked for respondents to send him PMs. This raised a red flag, but he is a long time member with hundreds of posts. He must be a good guy then. I actually registered on the forum to respond, but the mods haven't approved me yet. I am not going to correspond with him via PM. Any advice he wants for free, he can have on the open forum as far as I am concerned. In thinking back on what I was going to write, it might have more a case of giving him a piece of my mind than actual advice. It might even have turned into rant, but in the nicest possible way.

With your indulgence, I will rather use this forum to speak freely. Bear in mind that I am writing this from a buyer's perspective. I do not buy gear with an eye on reselling. I haven't de-acquired a camera or lens in decades. I am a hoarder collector. There seems to be quite a few people that find camera gear and want to shift it. So here goes my advice to sellers. Bear in mind that you are getting this advice for nothing and that is about what is worth. I will assume that we are talking about 35mm film SLR cameras. Medium format cameras and rangefinders are topics on their own. The same goes for digital. I will save that for another post.

Right off the bat, if you are looking to make some quick and easy money, forget it. I will not be doing business with you because your prices will not be realistic. The camera may be old but that does not make it an antique. If it takes 35mm film and has a mirror behind the lens, it's just an old SLR camera. It may be collectable and/or desirable but we'll get to that. ave to

Secondly, what your gear is worth depends on what it is and the condition it is in. It also depends on finding the right buyer. Sticking it in the local classifieds is unlikely to bring you much joy. An auction site would be better, since you will attract a better kind of buyer. These sites have buyer protection schemes and you will have to jump through a few hoops but it might be worth it. Probably the best place to sell is flea bay, but that is a learning curve all on its own. You will attract buyers from all over the world, but you will have to deal with shipping. The easiest way to sell is to take your goods to a dealer. You might get a good price but it will be nowhere near the top money. If you get a lowball offer, do not assume that you can get ten times that amount elsewhere. At best you will get two to three times more if you sell byourself, but you will have to put in the leg work. Read on to find out how.

Please take the time to describe each and every item that you are selling. Take some decent pic. Your smart phone can do a decent job. Just make sure that you take your shots in good light so that it's sharp and in focus. Take lots of photos. One picture with a bunch of gear just doesn't cut it. Blurred, badly lit shots are equally useless. Put the item on a table. Don't hold it in your one hand while you operate the phone with your other hand. I don't want to see your dirty finger nails. Yuck!

Don't trot out the excuse that you are not an expert when trying to flog a piece of broken junk. There are some basic tests and checks that you can do. Do a bit of research on the web. Learn the lingo. Don't make up your own terms. It is a film camera, not a spool camera. Lenses do not come with sun shades, that is a hood. Don't state the obvious. Yes, the lens can be changed. So what?

As for testing, I will share a few ideas here but this does not constitute a comprehensive guide. You can fire the camera's shutter. There shouldn't be any grinding or creaking noises. If there is a self timer, test it. In extreme cases, operating a slightly broken camera might push it over the edge into very broken territory. It's hard to know without trying, anyway. You want good money, so it's a risk you are going to have to take. Perhaps the best and brightest can fill me in on this. Try the slower shutter speeds. You can tell by ear if it's in the ball park but not much more. Check that the aperture gets stopped down when the shutter fires.

The acid test for a film camera is to put film into it, take pictures and get them developed. This is not exactly cheap and might turn out to be a waste of money. An old camera might have a nasty light leak from perished rubbers and the pictures will not look good. Shutter speeds might not be accurate anymore. It's best to get the camera serviced before you do this. This will drive up the cost of sale but you will get top money if you do this. In most cases it's not worth it.

Now for a few thoughts on camera brands. The easiest brand to sell might be Nikon. The F mount has been around since the late fifties. Lenses from back then will still work with modern Nikon bodies - a definite unique selling point. There seems to be a lot of love for old Nikons as well. Pentax might also be an easy sell. The M42 screw mount can be used on a lot of modern DSLR bodies. There adapters for K mount lenses as well. You could use a K mount on a modern Canon EOS DSLR body, but there are limitations. You can use factoid this in your ad. Pentaxians will not be impressed, however. Canonians show no fear or remorse when it comes to cutting off aperture levers to clear the mirror on their full fram bodies. Old Canon film bodies with the FD mount are just old cameras. There was some very fine FD lenses but on the whole I don't think there is a lot of love for these.

Speaking of love, in some cases it doesn't make much sense. For instance, the Pentax K1000 will fetch more money than a Pentax MX. The K1000 was an entry level camera and the MX was an advanced camera aimed at professionals. Go figure. It is good to keep in mind that Japanese factories churned out cameras by the boat load. What you have is unlikely to be rare, unless it's from elsewhere. A German Leica SLR is worth good money.

Your camera might be from a dead brand. There is a long list of these - Minolta, Konica, Yaschica, Pentacon, Chinon, et cetera. Some brands are still around but have moved into mirrorless. I am looking at you, Olympus and Ricoh. If you have something like a Contax, you are lucky. They are not common and might fetch a good price. Incidentally, a Pentacon is not a Pentax. Some sellers assume that it's the same thing. Just saying.

A last thought on cameras. There are lots of old manual and auto focus film SLRs around from the nineties and naughties. They may be old, but they are certainly not collectable yet. Yes, there are exceptions like a Nikon F4. Do your research before waxing lyrical about a plastic fantastic piece of junk. It was a cut throat market and companies were involved in a race to the bottom. Digital cameras changed that, long story. Research will also teach you to tell the difference between a very common Pentax P3N and a very rare Pentax NEd!

You can also go on about how your priceless relic of a lens can be adapted to modern mirrorless cameras with the right adapter. The buyer will have to find and order this adapter on his own time and account, of course. If it is a weird lens or camera, he may have to order it from a very distant shore and wait a long time for delivery. You can leave out such trivia from your ad. It is not your concern.

Let's talk lenses. This is the best part about that old camera. There are weirdos who like to collect and use film era lenses on their modern digital cameras. I would know - I'm one of them. However, it's not gold just because it's old. Manual focus zoom lenses from the seventies and eighties were not great, even by the standards of the time. By today's measure, most them are dreadful and will not fetch good money. There are a few exceptions, do some research. Non-zoom lenses are called prime lenses and not fixed lenses. These are worth more, especially if it's from a camera manufacturer. Third party lenses vary in value. There was cheap junk and then there was the good stuff.

You will have to do some research on what you are selling. I keep on saying that, because it's important. Buyers want to know things. You also do not want to overprice your merchandise. It is not difficult, just type what you read on the lens into a search engine. You can leave out the serial number when doing this. You don't need to put it into your ad either. Only a very few buyers care about that. There is info locked up to those in the know, so don't think badly of buyers who ask. A word to the wise - most old lenses have a piece of close screwed onto the front. This is called a filter. It is not a lens. Unless it is a close-up lens, but then it will say that. Buyers don't care much what it says on the filter. They care about what it says on the lens. There is no such thing as a Hoya 52mm UV lens, do not advertise it as such. Look for something like SMC Pentax M 200mm 1:4 - that is what buyers want to know. That colon is important - 1.2 and 1:2 mean very different things. Read up on aperture. I will just say that a smaller number is better, i.e. more money for you.

When checking a lens, take it off the camera and look through it. Even better, shine a light through it. Take a picture of this. Small specks of dust are OK. Only the most pedantic buyer will object. Larger spots or fuzziness you see is bad. White thingies are fungus. Fuzziness or haze comes from oil getting onto the glass. There is also balsam separation - glass elements that were glued together that are now coming apart. This is game over, sold as spares only. You could state that any of the above do not affect picture taking. Sellers love to do that and some buyers even take it at face value.

I cannot stress the importance of a bit of research enough. It amazes me to see how much overpriced stuff there is out there. It is depressing because I troll the ads almost daily and I will be seeing your ad over and over. For months on end. Please do not threaten buyers on the scorn with which you will treat "ridiculous" offers. Do not tell scammers not to contact you. It is no use, scammers will be scammers.

Here endeth the rant lesson. I feel better now. Thank you for reading this far.

[aslyfox]

some thoughts for potential sellers

do your research:

what is it that you are trying to sell exactly

what have others been willing to spend to buy such equipment

what makes your " product " unique

if not a " one off " effort, remember honesty is best to attract repeat business

and remember the chance of making real money is very slim

IMHO

[adpully]

I have bought and sold around 40 different MF lenses on eBay in the last five years simply because I enjoy trying them and finding exactly what works best for me.
Prices seem to have crept up lately but If you look carefully and take your time there are still bargains to be had.
Personally I don't mind too much if they are miss described, in fact many of my best bargains are found that way!

When selling on auction sites my personal current rules are:
1/ Take good pictures of the optics as well as the body so that users can easily see the condition and my Huawei mobile phone does fantastic job with its close focus and getting the colour temperature nice.
2/ State about the condition of optics and iris - Particularly state no fungus
3/ I suggest opting out of the eBay global shipping programme
4/ Don't forget to put the state the mount.

[photoptimist]

That's great advice for anyone seeking to become a dedicated reseller of used photographic equipment. Nicely shot images of a clean and tested camera with accurate model numbers can certainly boost buyer confidence and how much they will be willing to pay.

Alas the average "found-a-camera-in-the-parents-attic" seller is never going to take this advice. They will never take the hours and hours time to learn all the parts of the camera, how it is supposed to work, how much dust is OK or too much, which product-photo views of the camera and lenses are essential for buyers to see, etc. They won't take the time to research the model number and its current desirability among hobbyists or collectors. No, they'll think camera=valuable, old=valuable, looks OK = must be OK = valuable, etc.

Perhaps the best advice to buyers is to learn to laugh at all the "49mm skylight lense" sellers and lampoon the "why dangle" lens sellers and "RARE VINTAGE MINT" superlatives.

Buyers can also enjoy the challenge of identifying the lens and body from blurry photos taken from useless angles.

Beside, these same clueless sellers also create the occasional bargain of a lifetime so perhaps rampant ignorance isn't all bad.

[pschlute]

As someone who has sold and bought many lenses on ebay and forums, I suggest the best advice to a seller is to be realistic on your pricing. It may be almost a family heirloom, or have cost you hundreds when new, but that matters not a jot to the buyer. If you are listing an item because you want the cash, then pitch the price at a level that will sell.

[35mmfilmfan]

What excellent advice from all participants - I too get 'frustrated' (or something stronger !) at the way some hopefuls describe the items they want to sell (even though I, too, have found a couple of bargains that way !). Another thing is when, out of the goodness of my soul and kindness of my heart, I attempt to explain to a would-be seller about some of the more glaring errors in their listing (and these errors are frequently multiple), and receive a response along the lines of 'If you don't want to buy it, you are a time-waster'. It is a shame that this advice cannot be made available to all sellers on auction sites, possibly as a 'sticky'.

[ramseybuckeye]

tell the difference between a very common Pentax P3N and a very rare Pentax NEd!

I have both of these cameras, but I can only every find one at a time.

I enjoyed your rant. Bad photos of gear is just the most irritating thing, but it seems to be done on purpose sometimes, same as the photos that just go far enough so you can't see something. You read some of these descriptions and you just think they left out the line about stealing the camera from their grandpa's closet. When I sell something I do include the serial number so it is traceable, the buyer will know I haven't switched something out, because I'm sure that has been done.

My P3N is sitting on the desk in front of me, I have to go look for my NEd now, bye

[photoptimist]

My P3N is sitting on the desk in front of me, I have to go look for my NEd now, bye

You'll find it if you just walk around to the other side of the desk!

[BigMackCam]

Great post from the OP.

I'll add something I've mentioned before... and it's a real bone of contention for me with many sellers: Folks really would benefit from taking time to prepare equipment appropriately before photographing it for sale. This means cleaning it properly - wiping all flat surfaces to get rid of smears and other marks, using cotton buds and cocktail sticks (or whatever) to get the grime and dust out of nooks, crannies and textured surfaces. A dirty or dusty item is off-putting to many potential buyers - it looks awful, doesn't suggest the item has been well cared for (even though it may have been) and - frankly - it's unhygienic. Yuck!

Most folks would wash an automobile and use a vacuum cleaner and dusters on the interior before trying to sell it, knowing it would look more attractive and potentially fetch a better price... yet lots of sellers appear to advertise photographic equipment without the same basic preparations. It takes just a few minutes to clean something thoroughly and show some pride in the item(s) being offered for sale, and it demonstrates some consideration toward the potential buyer.

As a general rule, I won't buy dirty gear unless it's either (a) cheap, or (b) rare and not easily available in better condition. I'm sure I'm not alone in this...

[Rondec]

I guess from the selling side, I try to take photos of gear from every angle and identify any flaws in it. I usually keep the boxes and all the things that came with the camera or lens too. Does that sort of thing make the value go up? Probably not, but hopefully it does let the purchaser know that I am the sort of person who takes care of things pretty well.

With a lot of auctions, though, you are buying a pig in a poke. You don't really know what you are getting till it arrives at your doorstep.

If the price is right, that might be OK, but there are probably plenty of times that you get a lens with fungus in it and a camera body that would cost more than it's worth to fix up. I suppose that is why, when I am buying Pentax gear, I tend to do it through the marketplace here, rather than Craig's List, or some such place.

[BigMackCam]

I guess from the selling side, I try to take photos of gear from every angle and identify any flaws in it. I usually keep the boxes and all the things that came with the camera or lens too. Does that sort of thing make the value go up? Probably not, but hopefully it does let the purchaser know that I am the sort of person who takes care of things pretty well.

I'll pay more (perhaps not a lot more, but certainly a little) for equipment that's boxed with some or all of the accompanying bits, documents and software where applicable.

As for identifying flaws, I think that's excellent practice. I'd rather know - and see, in photographs - the imperfections up front. Unless they're highly significant, they're unlikely to stop me from purchasing an item I really want... but if I don't find out about them until I receive the item, it can be most disappointing. At the very least, full disclosure before sale minimises the chances of an item being returned, and maximises the satisfaction of the buyer - so they're more likely to buy from you in future.

[Just1MoreDave]

Sellers should realize that the buyer of photography gear is probably a photographer. That means someone who responds to a good image. Any work to improve your product photographs pays off. Really good photos stand out among the crowd, so well-photographed items will sell faster and at higher prices. Look at a bunch of lens auction thumbnails; you'll see what I mean. Plus you can learn product photography.

Sellers have to convey enough information once they attract the buyer with awesome photos. Buyers can often just move on to another seller if they can't figure out what you're selling. It's not that difficult to get information these days.

Sellers probably should figure out how they'll package and ship the stuff before committing to a shipping price. Cameras and lenses aren't a big deal but a tripod can be expensive just because of its size.

[stevebrot]

My advice to people asking here for advice on value or best way to sell goes like this:

• Don't use this thread to sell your gear or fish for buyers. It is against forum rules.
• Ebay completed listing amount is a good indication for pricing. If that is not compelling find your item at KEH or UsedPhotoPro (Roberts Camera) and deduct 20% to get an asking price.
• Don't claim rarity unless you are certain it is rare. Doing otherwise makes you look dumb.
• Post photos in the body of the listing, multiple views, and make sure they are clear. Doing otherwise makes you look dumb or deceitful.
• Be honest with your descriptions and photos. Hiding or downplaying damage is bad form and makes for ill will and possible refusal of payment.
• Post related items together if you like, but keep the number reasonable and offer as a bundle as well as separate.
• If you don't accept returns, price appropriate to the risk you are placing on the seller.
• If the item does not move, retire the listing and relist at a lower price. Don't bump, bump, bump, bump ad infinitum.
• Don't gouge on shipping. Buyers of used photo gear are usually pretty smart about such and doing so infers snake oil and can cause a failed sale.

Finally...

Don't sell junk unless as "parts only" and even then, be explicit about condition and whether it has already been "stripped".

Steve

(...yes I have had a few bad experiences...)

[Wasp]

So my account on that forum was finally approved. I wrote a long, polite and considered reply to the thread. No reply, not even from the OP. Just a few dozen views. Oh well...

[BigMackCam]

So my account on that forum was finally approved. I wrote a long, polite and considered reply to the thread. No reply, not even from the OP. Just a few dozen views. Oh well...

You're an established and respected member here, and I enjoyed your original post. I wonder, though, how I'd have felt about it if it were from a brand new member... It takes a while to become a known and respected quantity in a community, and what you intended as well-meant advice to a seasoned member may have come across a little strong from a forum newbie?