In the pocket carry around camera.

surfar · 11-27-2020, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by rodcy

Any recommendations. I have a Fufi X20. It has its merits but I think I could do better. Would like something with depth of field control and a viewfinder. Please don't suggest Leica my pockets aren't that deep!

Have you considered a ILC Fuji?...The X-E3 will be superseded early in the new year and will be quite reasonable used,Those people who want the latest will be offloading.The 15/45 kit lens is quite good.Its a retractable powerzoomer.Makes a small light compact pocketable unit.

dlhawes · 11-27-2020, 03:03 AM

Fujifilm XP140; waterproof, nearly indestructible, 4k video, very flexible settings; about 230 bucks.

rodcy · 11-27-2020, 05:37 AM

I bought my X20 second hand. A year later the zoom on-off broke. Not that impressed by the build. Feels good but not that convinced.

bdery · 11-27-2020, 07:02 AM

Late to the show.

I would still recommend GR III even without viewfinder it's a fantastic camera!

Ricoh GR III Camera Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

timb64 · 11-27-2020, 05:28 PM - **2 Likes**

Sony RX100 ?

**bhbrake** · 12-11-2020, 05:54 PM

I finally pulled the trigger on a GX85 I found in flawless shape for half the price of new. I wanted the GRiii, but just couldn't justify the price for my purposes - it has little peer in it's category. With a 14mm pancake lens or the kit wide zoom the GR85 looks like it will be a great day-to-day. My K-3 with looks like a monster next to it with the 17-70mm walkabout I normally use.

**UncleVanya** · 12-11-2020, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by bhbrake

I finally pulled the trigger on a GX85 I found in flawless shape for half the price of new. I wanted the GRiii, but just couldn't justify the price for my purposes - it has little peer in it's category. With a 14mm pancake lens or the kit wide zoom the GR85 looks like it will be a great day-to-day. My K-3 with looks like a monster next to it with the 17-70mm walkabout I normally use.

Interesting. I think I would prefer the LX100 for the money and size but I'm glad you found a winning combo.

**bhbrake** · 12-11-2020, 10:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Interesting. I think I would prefer the LX100 for the money and size but I'm glad you found a winning combo.

The LX100ii is more portable and was going to be my first pick, but the GX85 was coming in $200 cheaper, and I had some concerns about not being able to remove the lens on the LX for cleaning as I am good at getting my gear messy.

**UncleVanya** · 12-12-2020, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bhbrake

The LX100ii is more portable and was going to be my first pick, but the GX85 was coming in $200 cheaper, and I had some concerns about not being able to remove the lens on the LX for cleaning as I am good at getting my gear messy.

That seems smart. I like the 12-32 it’s not a fast lens but it is tiny and the images I get are good. I carry it on a gx1 when I want the tiny m43 experience.

**AgentL** · 12-13-2020, 07:24 PM

The 12-32mm lens is really quite good - the only real issue is that f3.5-5.6 is a very small aperture for micro four thirds. It gives you very little DoF control, I usually use f5.6 as the big-DoF "f8-f11" equivalent. So there's essentially no wiggle room at the long end.

**UncleVanya** · 12-13-2020, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by AgentL

The 12-32mm lens is really quite good - the only real issue is that f3.5-5.6 is a very small aperture for micro four thirds. It gives you very little DoF control, I usually use f5.6 as the big-DoF "f8-f11" equivalent. So there's essentially no wiggle room at the long end.

I mostly agree, but diffraction isn’t a hard barrier. Sometimes I’ll shoot at f8 on the long end of that lens.

**AgentL** · 12-13-2020, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

I mostly agree, but diffraction isn’t a hard barrier. Sometimes I’ll shoot at f8 on the long end of that lens.

I just find the lack of creativity offered by the DoF to be limiting. Although when the situation isn't likely to need shallow DoF I have no problem using it. It's a good lens, it lives on my wife's GF7.

normhead · 12-14-2020, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by AgentL

I just find the lack of creativity offered by the DoF to be limiting. Although when the situation isn't likely to need shallow DoF I have no problem using it. It's a good lens, it lives on my wife's GF7.

Where as folks like me have 1.4 and 2.8 glass but never shoot wide open. I have one DA* 55 1.4 image taken at ƒ1.4 and it was a test shot. Most of the time 1.4 is just twice as much weight of glass as ƒ2.

ƒ8 and be there.

If you look at Tims last image, he has subject isolation with narrow DoF on a small sensor camera. It's not like you can' ever do it. It's just harder, sometimes impossible. Just like wider DoF images are harder if not impossible on larger sensor cameras.

er1kksen · 12-15-2020, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Have you done blind tests? How about a blind forum poll?

I always wonder, is what I see what others see?

Looking a my 6 image polls, even lenses I think are my worst lenses have some followers, and I've never had even 30% of the people who answered the polls vote one lens the best. My guess is even even if your GR were voted the most popular, there would be more people who voted against it than voted for it.

I know what I see is not necessarily what others see, but if I'm buying gear for me, what I see is what matters. The democratic approach is not the approach I would use here, especially when I review things like what images get the most votes in our regular contests.

The GR lens has a distinctive rendering. So does the 31mm limited. Not everyone in a particular poll (especially if it's a controlled test-shot comparison, which may not highlight the lens's strengths or how they might apply to the user's intended real-world subjects) is going to select the 31mm as providing the best images, as it does have its technical flaws. Not all users are looking for or even sensitive to those differences in rendering, and those differences aren't relevant or even beneficial for every shooting situation. I'd value one thorough review by a perceptive observer (like this one: Guest Review: Pentax SMC FA 31mm f1.8 Limited - phillipreeve.net) over a hundred blind polls.

**AgentL** · 12-15-2020, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Where as folks like me have 1.4 and 2.8 glass but never shoot wide open. I have one DA* 55 1.4 image taken at ƒ1.4 and it was a test shot. Most of the time 1.4 is just twice as much weight of glass as ƒ2.

ƒ8 and be there.

If you look at Tims last image, he has subject isolation with narrow DoF on a small sensor camera. It's not like you can' ever do it. It's just harder, sometimes impossible. Just like wider DoF images are harder if not impossible on larger sensor cameras.

I like to have both options, large aperture and smaller. Although I have found that I've under-utilized smaller apertures at some points in the past. And with m4/3, it's f5.6 and be there

12-12-2020, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#39
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by bhbrake The LX100ii is more portable and was going to be my first pick, but the GX85 was coming in $200 cheaper, and I had some concerns about not being able to remove the lens on the LX for cleaning as I am good at getting my gear messy. That seems smart. I like the 12-32 it’s not a fast lens but it is tiny and the images I get are good. I carry it on a gx1 when I want the tiny m43 experience. Last edited by UncleVanya; 12-13-2020 at 08:01 PM.

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11-27-2020, 02:26 AM	#31
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by rodcy Any recommendations. I have a Fufi X20. It has its merits but I think I could do better. Would like something with depth of field control and a viewfinder. Please don't suggest Leica my pockets aren't that deep! Have you considered a ILC Fuji?...The X-E3 will be superseded early in the new year and will be quite reasonable used,Those people who want the latest will be offloading.The 15/45 kit lens is quite good.Its a retractable powerzoomer.Makes a small light compact pocketable unit.

11-27-2020, 03:03 AM	#32
dlhawes Guest	Fujifilm XP140; waterproof, nearly indestructible, 4k video, very flexible settings; about 230 bucks.

11-27-2020, 05:37 AM	#33
rodcy Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 61 Original Poster	I bought my X20 second hand. A year later the zoom on-off broke. Not that impressed by the build. Feels good but not that convinced.

11-27-2020, 07:02 AM	#34
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Late to the show. I would still recommend GR III even without viewfinder it's a fantastic camera! Ricoh GR III Camera Review - Introduction \| PentaxForums.com Reviews

11-27-2020, 05:28 PM - 2 Likes	#35
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,510	Sony RX100 ?

12-11-2020, 05:54 PM	#36
bhbrake Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 332	I finally pulled the trigger on a GX85 I found in flawless shape for half the price of new. I wanted the GRiii, but just couldn't justify the price for my purposes - it has little peer in it's category. With a 14mm pancake lens or the kit wide zoom the GR85 looks like it will be a great day-to-day. My K-3 with looks like a monster next to it with the 17-70mm walkabout I normally use.

12-11-2020, 06:29 PM	#37
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by bhbrake I finally pulled the trigger on a GX85 I found in flawless shape for half the price of new. I wanted the GRiii, but just couldn't justify the price for my purposes - it has little peer in it's category. With a 14mm pancake lens or the kit wide zoom the GR85 looks like it will be a great day-to-day. My K-3 with looks like a monster next to it with the 17-70mm walkabout I normally use. Interesting. I think I would prefer the LX100 for the money and size but I'm glad you found a winning combo.

12-11-2020, 10:20 PM - 1 Like	#38
bhbrake Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 332	Originally posted by UncleVanya Interesting. I think I would prefer the LX100 for the money and size but I'm glad you found a winning combo. The LX100ii is more portable and was going to be my first pick, but the GX85 was coming in $200 cheaper, and I had some concerns about not being able to remove the lens on the LX for cleaning as I am good at getting my gear messy.

12-13-2020, 07:24 PM	#40
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,756	The 12-32mm lens is really quite good - the only real issue is that f3.5-5.6 is a very small aperture for micro four thirds. It gives you very little DoF control, I usually use f5.6 as the big-DoF "f8-f11" equivalent. So there's essentially no wiggle room at the long end.

12-13-2020, 08:02 PM	#41
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by AgentL The 12-32mm lens is really quite good - the only real issue is that f3.5-5.6 is a very small aperture for micro four thirds. It gives you very little DoF control, I usually use f5.6 as the big-DoF "f8-f11" equivalent. So there's essentially no wiggle room at the long end. I mostly agree, but diffraction isn’t a hard barrier. Sometimes I’ll shoot at f8 on the long end of that lens.

12-13-2020, 09:44 PM	#42
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,756	Originally posted by UncleVanya I mostly agree, but diffraction isn’t a hard barrier. Sometimes I’ll shoot at f8 on the long end of that lens. I just find the lack of creativity offered by the DoF to be limiting. Although when the situation isn't likely to need shallow DoF I have no problem using it. It's a good lens, it lives on my wife's GF7.

12-14-2020, 07:49 AM	#43
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by AgentL I just find the lack of creativity offered by the DoF to be limiting. Although when the situation isn't likely to need shallow DoF I have no problem using it. It's a good lens, it lives on my wife's GF7. Where as folks like me have 1.4 and 2.8 glass but never shoot wide open. I have one DA* 55 1.4 image taken at ƒ1.4 and it was a test shot. Most of the time 1.4 is just twice as much weight of glass as ƒ2. ƒ8 and be there. If you look at Tims last image, he has subject isolation with narrow DoF on a small sensor camera. It's not like you can' ever do it. It's just harder, sometimes impossible. Just like wider DoF images are harder if not impossible on larger sensor cameras.

12-15-2020, 10:02 AM	#44
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by normhead Have you done blind tests? How about a blind forum poll? I always wonder, is what I see what others see? Looking a my 6 image polls, even lenses I think are my worst lenses have some followers, and I've never had even 30% of the people who answered the polls vote one lens the best. My guess is even even if your GR were voted the most popular, there would be more people who voted against it than voted for it. I know what I see is not necessarily what others see, but if I'm buying gear for me, what I see is what matters. The democratic approach is not the approach I would use here, especially when I review things like what images get the most votes in our regular contests. The GR lens has a distinctive rendering. So does the 31mm limited. Not everyone in a particular poll (especially if it's a controlled test-shot comparison, which may not highlight the lens's strengths or how they might apply to the user's intended real-world subjects) is going to select the 31mm as providing the best images, as it does have its technical flaws. Not all users are looking for or even sensitive to those differences in rendering, and those differences aren't relevant or even beneficial for every shooting situation. I'd value one thorough review by a perceptive observer (like this one: Guest Review: Pentax SMC FA 31mm f1.8 Limited - phillipreeve.net) over a hundred blind polls.

12-15-2020, 10:26 AM	#45
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,756	Originally posted by normhead Where as folks like me have 1.4 and 2.8 glass but never shoot wide open. I have one DA* 55 1.4 image taken at ƒ1.4 and it was a test shot. Most of the time 1.4 is just twice as much weight of glass as ƒ2. ƒ8 and be there. If you look at Tims last image, he has subject isolation with narrow DoF on a small sensor camera. It's not like you can' ever do it. It's just harder, sometimes impossible. Just like wider DoF images are harder if not impossible on larger sensor cameras. I like to have both options, large aperture and smaller. Although I have found that I've under-utilized smaller apertures at some points in the past. And with m4/3, it's f5.6 and be there