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12-08-2020, 09:04 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It is what it is, nothing more and nothing less.

Apps? Meh...

Wireless integration? Meh...

Wireless tethering? Meh...

Wired tethering? YES!


Steve
Sadly a lot of people can't operate in this modern world without an app of some sort

12-08-2020, 09:41 AM - 1 Like   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I suspect everyone wants it, just because it sounds cool... but showing that you actually get anything for it is different.
Good point.

'20' is certainly a higher number than '8', so it must be better, right? But, discussions on new cameras often neglect to talk about whether the higher performance (of any system parameter) affects the photographer's outcomes. As you suggest, typically there is scant evidence given to show how the 'better' camera improves things for the user. For example:

Is the photography experience more enjoyable? How?
Is the camera easier to use? In what ways?
Does the lower-performing camera or DSLR produce at least a couple of great keeper shots?
Is the pro user making a higher profit with the more advanced camera or with their mirrorless system?

We rarely see comparisons of this nature.

In general, I don't find much difference in the images I see from dSLRs or mirrorless systems, if any.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 12-08-2020 at 11:38 AM.
12-08-2020, 03:01 PM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I suspect everyone wants it, just because it sounds cool... but showing that you actually get anything for it is different. 8 FPS, on the K-3 is quite good. That's an image every .125 seconds. 20 frames per second is .05 frames per second. How much happens in .075 seconds? Your subject has too be very fast for that to make difference. If you specialize in very fast there's definitely change it might make a difference, very fast requires specialized shooting locations. IF you aren't willing to travel to locations where you can take that kind of image, they are largely irrelevant. SO you can eliminate a huge number of shooters needing 20 FPS, just because they rarely put themselves in a position to need it.

The K-new is 12 FPS, I was hoping for 10.

How out posting a high speed burst where we can see all the images? That would let us determine if wee'd ever actually need 20 FPS. For my dogs even a K-1 a a frame ever .25 seconds works fine.

I had 10 choices.....


I chose 1


Would more FPS have been beneficial? Personally I don't think so. But I'd love to see some visual evidence otherwise, to help with parameters. At what subject speed does 20 FPS became optimal, and can you actually track the subject going that fast?
I suspect a lot depends on the subject. If you were trying to catch the critical moment when the dog caught a frisbee, a smidge too soon or too late from that moment could make all the difference.
12-08-2020, 03:20 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by ecostigny Quote
I suspect a lot depends on the subject. If you were trying to catch the critical moment when the dog caught a frisbee, a smidge too soon or too late from that moment could make all the difference.
I have images like that taken with a K-5. I might have used a few more tries to get it, but trying something 3 or 4 times instead of a guaranteed image on the first try 3 times in 10 years, easily less pain than coughing up a grand for a more expensive camera. As before, I'll shoot an extra 10 minutes, and keep the grand.

My time isn't worth $2000 an hour yet ( 30 minutes more shooting at a cost to $1000 more camera.) You have to work for sports illustrated or something similar to need 20 FPS.


Last edited by normhead; 12-08-2020 at 03:26 PM.
12-08-2020, 04:18 PM   #155
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Well I've been trying for seven years to get that perfect shot of a osprey entering the water in the perfect angle and light, I still haven't got it. It's not like throwing a Frisbee to a dog that I can do over and over in the backyard until it's right I have to put in the time when I'm not working and hope I get lucky to have the bird do what I want, so I'm going to use the best tools available to me to get the shot. I don't have to use 20fps on my R5 I can set it for less, but a K3 will never be able to more than 8fps if you need it.

New faster tools are nice, I enjoy driving a fuel injected car and using high speed internet, you may be fine still driving a car with a carburetor or using dial up internet.
12-08-2020, 06:18 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
Well I've been trying for seven years to get that perfect shot of a osprey entering the water in the perfect angle and light
I recently found out that at least five men had been pursuing that perfect shot of a kingfisher in the UK alone, and that's just counting the ones that made the papers. Some of them were several years into the endeavour, with pictures numbering in the tens of thousands each. I reasoned at the time that kingfishers must be the most photographed bird by numbers of pictures. (By numbers of birds in pictures, pigeons presumably still win.)
12-08-2020, 06:23 PM - 1 Like   #157
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Kingfishers are another bird I've tried for ever to get a shot of them going into the water. They are so small and fast I am ready to give up on that shot and just except defeat.

12-08-2020, 07:03 PM - 1 Like   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
Kingfishers are another bird I've tried for ever to get a shot of them going into the water. They are so small and fast I am ready to give up on that shot and just except defeat.
You and me both..... you see pictures of Asian kingfishers and people get great images of them. Ours are obviously a lot less co-operative. Tess got a great kingfisher shot, but not flying. After years of trying I'm still skunked. After Tess got hers on a campsite where we were camping for the night I was ready to cry. I was napping.

Of course it's hanging on her wall as a print now, just t rub it in I think.

A sure fire case of "you snooze you loose."
12-08-2020, 08:57 PM - 1 Like   #159
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These are the things that are important to me in a digital camera: Long battery life, weather sealing, high dynamic range, relatively fast shutter speed, Auto Focusing, low light sensitivity, lots of lenses, accurate colors. Everything else can take a back-seat !
12-09-2020, 12:55 AM - 1 Like   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
I reasoned at the time that kingfishers must be the most photographed bird by numbers of pictures. (By numbers of birds in pictures, pigeons presumably still win.)
That's probably because they are one of the few British birds that aren't grey
12-09-2020, 01:47 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wiltshireborn Quote
Sadly a lot of people can't operate in this modern world without an app of some sort
That's probably because all those who were "forced" to buy a personal computer in the '90 just to check their emails now just have a cellphone.
Plus, an "app" has a self-contained feel, like a trouble-solving pill, that IMHO has some appeal on the technologically analphabetic masses.
12-09-2020, 03:45 AM - 1 Like   #162
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There are upsides and downsides to every technology. The downsides to mirrorless have to do with decreased battery life and the striping that can come with a thousand PDAF points on the sensor. Of course, there are plenty of upsides too.

I think in practice, unless you shot a lot wildlife or sports, there really isn't that much difference in the photos produced by the two types of interchangeable lens cameras.
12-09-2020, 05:58 AM - 1 Like   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There are upsides and downsides to every technology. The downsides to mirrorless have to do with decreased battery life and the striping that can come with a thousand PDAF points on the sensor. Of course, there are plenty of upsides too.

I think in practice, unless you shot a lot wildlife or sports, there really isn't that much difference in the photos produced by the two types of interchangeable lens cameras.
There isn't a camera I own or have owned - DSLR, SLT, mirrorless, bridge, compact - without limitations and compromises. Same with lenses, and many accessories. Some folks laud or criticise individual specifications or features (or lack thereof) in certain types, models or brands, but the fact is most of us can do what we do with any modern camera. EVF in mirrorless is arguably the most divisive feature, since it's genuinely uncomfortable for some people to use - so it's a physical show-stopper, rather than a preference. Beyond that, I don't think there are limitations on any platform that can't be worked with or around. They're all suitable tools - we just pick the one that meets our individual requirements best. For some, that'll be a mirrorless platform... and that's OK
12-09-2020, 06:37 AM   #164
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Interesting article. Don't think I am ready to jump on that wagon yet...
12-09-2020, 06:48 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
I've been trying for seven years to get that perfect shot of a osprey entering the water in the perfect angle and light, I still haven't got it. ..... I have to put in the time when I'm not working
You have put seven years of your spare time trying to get one shot? It might have been better to have got a moonlighting job for a while and put the money into a real high speed camera. Not that much more than a high spec DSLR :

Meet the Chronos 2.1-HD: An Affordable Ultra High-Speed (1000 FPS) Camera - Y.M.Cinema - News & Insights on Digital Cinema

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