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11-28-2020, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #46
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People who think "mirrorless is the future" are simply wrong because they assume every photographer wants the same camera design, the same format, the same viewfinder, the same video features, the same ergonomics, the same ... you name it. (Usually such people have a choice that they love and can't see how anyone else could want anything else.)

However, as this thread (and many others) prove, photographers vary substantially on their equipment preferences. Even the argument about simplicity and cost of camera designs is simply wrong -- only some people want the cheapest/simplest camera possible while others actually want the most sophisticated camera possible or are willing to pay more to get exactly what they want. (A few even want the simplest, MOST expensive camera possible ... Leica!)

It may be true that the relative numbers of photographers choosing this or that format/architecture/brand may shift over time like the length of women's skirts (a fickle fad dynamic that benefits the bank accounts of camera and skirt makers!), but that does not imply that every shift is an inexorable trend and that 100% of photographers will converge on identical cameras.

If anything, Nikon's and Canon's turn toward MILCs will benefit Pentax. Those photographers who want an OVF for the many artistic, ergonomic, compositional, and comfort benefits of that architecture will gravitate to Pentax as the only maker of new DSLRs.


Last edited by photoptimist; 11-28-2020 at 09:25 AM.
11-28-2020, 08:00 AM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Sounds to me as if a lot of the claimed advantages/disadvantages are specific (real or imagined) to particular cameras and not in principle anything to do with whether they are mirrorless or not. Such as claiming they have better sensors/lenses/weather-proofing, true or not. Like the uninformed guy who said that a mirrorlesss advantage was IBIS

But as time goes on I fear that future improvements, yet to be seen, will be applied to mirrorless and not to DSLRs (or any that are still around), as a deliberate way of moving sales to mirrorless. People are saying that the Nikon D850 will be the last ever FF Nikon DSLR, and they may be right, and it remains to be seen if Pentax can keep up with things given their OVF policy. Any DSLRs (of any brand) still being sold in 2030 will be like the Pentax K1000 was in 1990 - a 1970's manual design still on the market surrounded by electronic auto-focussing cameras with built-in winders and a dozen program exposure modes.

I think mirrorless will be the future, even if a few DSLRs are still made, like rangefinders. That is simply because mirrorless are cheaper to make and the makers are pocketing most of the savings, so they will push them and push them for all their worth.
Nikon has said that their SLRs are still out selling their MILCs -- surprising, considering the large investment they have made in the new tech. And they have said they will still release some SLRs going forward -- just not as many.

Pentax is already a niche brand and apparently has decided that part of their niche is going to be SLRs with very nice OVFs. Certainly there will be people who feel left out with not liking EVFs and perhaps some of them will gravitate to Pentax.
11-28-2020, 08:40 AM - 3 Likes   #48
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clickbait article - FS will post a 'DSLR's Will Never Die' article in the same space later next week...

it's all about the traffic on the website.... if you read the article, it worked...


I am currently shooting with both DSLR and MILC camera bodies and there are distinct differences/pros & cons for each... and most of it boils down to how do you like to shoot...

I am also not interested in all the name-calling, vested interest opinions, etc that has been going on in this thread, so my opinions are my own...
11-28-2020, 10:00 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Nikon has released 2 FF DSLR's since the D850 (D6 and D780)
Wow, I was not aware of those, and the comments I read that the D850 might be the last must have been pre-2020.

11-28-2020, 10:38 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Wow, I was not aware of those, and the comments I read that the D850 might be the last must have been pre-2020.
The D6, D850, and D780 are all from different lines.
It would be nice for Pentax to have lines ‘above’ and ‘below’ the K-1.
11-28-2020, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The D6, D850, and D780 are all from different lines.
It would be nice for Pentax to have lines ‘above’ and ‘below’ the K-1.
When I look at how Nikon is doing with this strategy, I don't think it is necessarily desirable

Beside that, Pentax has the D645 line in the price bracket of the D6 above the K1 for high resolution landscape shooting etc. I also don't think anyone is waiting for a high speed sports DSLR-machine from Pentax in this class.
The k1 on the other hand is in the price class of the D780 but (probably) playing a class above it IQ-wise. To adapt to that they could only reduce the IQ and keep the price.
11-28-2020, 01:05 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
When I look at how Nikon is doing with this strategy, I don't think it is necessarily desirable

Beside that, Pentax has the D645 line in the price bracket of the D6 above the K1 for high resolution landscape shooting etc. I also don't think anyone is waiting for a high speed sports DSLR-machine from Pentax in this class.
The k1 on the other hand is in the price class of the D780 but (probably) playing a class above it IQ-wise. To adapt to that they could only reduce the IQ and keep the price.
Nikon users think in terms of capability - not price.
The D3, D5, D6 line is known amongst Nikon users as the supreme sports / event camera.
The D750 and D780 line is known amongst Nikon users as the supreme high ISO camera.
We will have to wait and see how the new camera competes with the D780 -
I am quite sure that nothing in the Pentax line competes well with the D6.
11-28-2020, 01:13 PM - 2 Likes   #53
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Interesting views in that article. I tend to agree with some. I've started playing with a Sony A7C and it's a quality camera, small enough to really make a difference in some situations for me, but not a complete replacement over a DSLR. I see them working hand in hand.

Sony's AF is impressive, however.

11-28-2020, 05:02 PM - 2 Likes   #54
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Does a smaller flange distance actually make a difference? I thought it was the size of the mount that made a difference in light transmission, as Nikon kept going on about.

Really when you think about it mirrorless is just companies reducing overall production costs and telling you it's innovation.

Personally I thought sony's translucent mirror designs were really cool and a real innovation. Maybe something along the lines of that could be refined.
11-28-2020, 05:09 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I use my {MILC} Q-7 when traveling because it is smaller; my choice has nothing to do with DSLR vs MILC.
Well you best not get ship wrecked than eh.....
11-28-2020, 05:13 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Really when you think about it mirrorless is just companies reducing overall production costs and telling you it's innovation.
With respect, I don't really buy that. The amount of R&D required for Nikon and Canon to release a mirrorless platform consisting of multiple cameras and lenses is very significant indeed. I'm only guessing, but I imagine it will take a long time for any reduction in the costs of manufacture to pay back that R&D.

QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Personally I thought sony's translucent mirror designs were really cool and a real innovation. Maybe something along the lines of that could be refined.
My Sony A99-based Hasselblad HV is an SLT camera. It works superbly, but there's no getting around the fact that a translucent mirror design results in some loss of light to both the sensor and viewfinder
11-28-2020, 06:00 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, I don't really buy that. The amount of R&D required for Nikon and Canon to release a mirrorless platform consisting of multiple cameras and lenses is very significant indeed. I'm only guessing, but I imagine it will take a long time for any reduction in the costs of manufacture to pay back that R&D.
Lenses maybe, but what RND do they need to develop on a system that takes away features more than it adds them? I mean look at the evolution of the A7 series, they were pumping out a new camera every 6 months basically.
11-28-2020, 06:59 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Lenses maybe, but what RND do they need to develop on a system that takes away features more than it adds them? I mean look at the evolution of the A7 series, they were pumping out a new camera every 6 months basically.


RanD is complex,often involving a new sensor and processor.Then once its done ,the testing commences.

In an interview I saw with company X,they said that they research a year then it takes another year to get the body to market.In the case of lenses,they remarked "that takes longer".

Last edited by surfar; 11-28-2020 at 07:26 PM.
11-28-2020, 07:43 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
RanD is complex,often involving a new sensor and processor.Then once its done ,the testing commences.

In an interview I saw with company X,they said that they research a year then it takes another year to get the body to market.In the case of lenses,they remarked "that takes longer".
Again that's pretty interesting considering the turnover of the A7 series of cameras that I mentioned. Companies like Nikon don't even make the sensor, they just tweak it to their needs.
11-28-2020, 08:34 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Again that's pretty interesting considering the turnover of the A7 series of cameras that I mentioned. Companies like Nikon don't even make the sensor, they just tweak it to their needs.
There are 3 lines of A7,all starting 2013(as I remember).

A7(3) came early 2018
A7s(3) this year.
A7r has had 4 versions...

Development time is fairly spaced out.
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