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12-14-2020, 06:17 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
At the Grand Canyon on the rim there are only rails in the most heavily traveled spots.
And the idiots will still climb up on them and hang off the other side talking selfies.

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The rangers at the Grand Canyon in the talk I attended made sure to clearly state that if you hiked in and broke a leg, you are likely to have to hike out on the splinted leg. If you can’t an air ambulance ride will be billed to you at a cost that could be up to (at that time) several $10k increments.
I think this may have changed some in recent years. Now, I believe the park service will bear the cost of an air rescue, or carried out on a litter, from below the rim to the very basic medical clinic on the South Rim. But, as I heard one Ranger say, you will have to have something broken pretty bad to get this assistance. Otherwise, you're hiking out. Any further medical transportation is on you. Like to a hospital in Flagstaff to set broken bones or other treatments.

12-14-2020, 06:22 PM   #32
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This was astounding news to me. It is apparently very common for folk to jump the safety fences and seek that magical Instagram post. Even the day after this happened there were still people doing the same thing. It is just horrific to my mind.
12-14-2020, 06:47 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by DWS1 Quote
I think this may have changed some in recent years. Now, I believe the park service will bear the cost of an air rescue, or carried out on a litter, from below the rim to the very basic medical clinic on the South Rim. But, as I heard one Ranger say, you will have to have something broken pretty bad to get this assistance. Otherwise, you're hiking out. Any further medical transportation is on you. Like to a hospital in Flagstaff to set broken bones or other treatments.
There was a women who was shipped out of Yellowstone after getting "too close" to a bison. She was shipped out by chopper to the hospital in Idaho (closest one).

No Federal charges were brought against her - Law violations within the boundaries of National Parks are Federal crimes, let that sink in - she had to pay for the chopper. Now days, with the budgets of National Parks being at lower levels then they were and the pandemic, there aren't as many Rangers as there were and getting help can be delayed.

Here in the PNW, the states are having huge issues with people "abusing" state parks. Budgets are cut and personnel are the first to be laid off resulting in trash, feces (human and "pets"), broken fences, broken tables etc. being left behind by the "privileged".
12-14-2020, 08:32 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by DWS1 Quote
And the idiots will still climb up on them and hang off the other side talking selfies.



I think this may have changed some in recent years. Now, I believe the park service will bear the cost of an air rescue, or carried out on a litter, from below the rim to the very basic medical clinic on the South Rim. But, as I heard one Ranger say, you will have to have something broken pretty bad to get this assistance. Otherwise, you're hiking out. Any further medical transportation is on you. Like to a hospital in Flagstaff to set broken bones or other treatments.
I figured they might be stretching the truth on broken bones. But there was clearly a point at which the fee might just fall to you.

12-14-2020, 08:34 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
An now I am reminded of the buffalo that surprisingly didn't kill a lady this year out in Custer State Park . . . .
years ago, I was on a bus tour through Custer State Park

the bus was stopped because a herd of bison, cows and young were around the bus

people were yelling at the driver because they wanted off so they could take pictures

lucky for them, he refused
12-14-2020, 08:42 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
years ago, I was on a bus tour through Custer State Park

the bus was stopped because a herd of bison, cows and young were around the bus

people were yelling at the driver because they wanted off so they could take pictures

lucky for them, he refused
A drive through “Zoo” in our area has Watusi. They tell you not to get out of the car and not to feed them. An adult friend ride in our van with the kids the doors were open and she fed one. He or she got their head stuck and she had to literally take the “bull” by the horns and turn his head to extract him. Thank goodness he turned out to be docile and agreeable or she might have gotten injured.
12-14-2020, 10:03 PM - 2 Likes   #37
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In my area there are coastal trails which linked outports (fishing villages) for generations. The trails still exist today and many are maintained and some even world class (see "East Coast Trail, Avalon Peninsula" and "Skirwink Trail, Trinity Bay"). There is one trouble on those which aren't maintained--and many weren't and some still aren't: Coastlines recede. I've found myself looking straight down between my feet from time to time down through holes through a matting of roots and loose gravel into open space down to the rocks below! Walking on air is not very safe and there have been incidents. Thankfully, the rise in tourism dollars the past few decades has led to local towns maintaining them more and moving eroded sections back away from receding edges.

There is a lesson here, though: Sometimes in remote areas it's hard to even know if what you are doing even IS dangerous in the first place. I'm reminded of some Russian tourists some 15 or 20 late Octobers ago deciding to hike down some old paths to a now-resettled village on the quite remote Northern Peninsula (Newfoundland). Longish, hike, but not bad as a doable day hike. Some of their bones have been found over the years. Turns out sudden quite brutal snows/freezing rains occur in northern Newfoundland in the late fall sometimes and you need to carry proper gear. Locals know this. They also know there is little they can do in the middle of such snow/rain/freezing rain/sleet storms on an immediate basis.

Tourists used to more "civilized" so-called wilderness areas simply don't know how different real back country is from more manicured cottage country and rural country. Even in Gros Morne National Park, a well-equipped couple were hiking couple of years ago on the most famous/most traveled back country trail there (see "Western Brook Pond"). One fell and broke their leg. This was in the spring where the typical weather is one nor'easter with tons of snow after another at that elevation (think Mt. Washington which is affected by the same systems). Forget the details but even though they were on the trail, had followed all the safety rules and carried proper gear and had a satellite PLB to boot (no phone service--hell that's true one or two ridges back most anywhere even close to the capital city which is why I always carry one regardless) it took something like at least a day and a half to reach them even with national park resources.


Last edited by jgnfld; 12-15-2020 at 06:23 AM.
12-14-2020, 11:55 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I was close enough to hear a lot of the conversation between them and I remember being impressed with the professionalism of the rangers. Everything was "please sir stay still", "Sir, just hang on right there I'll be with you as soon as I can". That despite the two dudes shouting derogatory terms and insisting the rangers hurry up and do their "f*** jobs".

It was a strange mixture of pride and despair in my fellow humans.
Holy crap! While I can honestly say I was professional during emergencies, after work everyone did a thorough venting about events of the day. The only way you could put up with it. People yelling "Do your f**** jobs" never happened to me. Wow... makes you wonder about humanity.

I do wish we'd taken more photos back then. There are a few color slides of a few things. The office had a Pentax Spotmatic that was about a dozen or more years old which we used on occasion. Conditions were just so bad -- no AC in any vehicles, dirty, dusty, water, rain, wind, thieves, etc -- that it would be real abuse to the camera to carry it for 10 hours straight every day. One of our vehicles was an open air Korean War-surplus Jeep, max speed about 40 mph. and just as jerky riding as you saw in M*A*S*H. Looked nice painted white, but that didn't make it safer (not even seat belts) or comfortable. Different times.
12-15-2020, 07:21 AM   #39
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Nature weeds out the unfit, sometime weeds out the fit as well.
12-15-2020, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Like you, I try not to be snarky. I don't, however, believe it's snarky to recognise the folly of taking such risks, especially when you have dependents and family that love and need you. We can all make silly mistakes or fall victim to freak accidents, but that's very different than placing yourself in danger unnecessarily... a practice that seems to have increased with the rise of social media and the need for attention.

I feel sorry for the deceased lady regardless of her misadventure, but I feel especially bad for the husband and child, the authorities who had to recover her body, and everyone who unintentionally witnessed the accident.
I agree with those sentiments entirely. I put myself at a lot less risk in the backcountry now than I did when I was young and relatively unattached, though I'm glad that I had some of those experiences at the edge of death when I was younger. Because of them I'm better equipped to keep myself safe in some of the high-risk environments my work puts me in.

Reading about the guy at Crater Lake yelling expletives at the rescuers obviously sounds ridiculous- but then I think to the emotional memory of my first time being stuck in a situation where I experienced absolute mortal terror like that. I can see how that sensation could stimulate someone who was raised to be a bit more entitled or attached to their pride to behave in such a seemingly ridiculous way towards his rescuers. I'd hope that after it was all over and that guy came down from that terror that fills your body the experience would impart some humility. Those experiences certainly did for me, though my drive was always simply to explore the wild landscape, with no need (or opportunity, back then) to impress via social media. Maybe they'd have a different effect on someone more attention-driven. I was also never in a position to be rescued- it was calm yourself down and calculate your risks, or surrender to gravity.
12-15-2020, 10:41 AM   #41
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Back about 30 years ago when I was a newspaper photographer, I was hiking with a friend of mine who decided to try and free climb up a rock face off the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. He got about two thirds of the way up and got stuck. I decided to teach him a lesson by taking a photo of him up there before I went off to get help. It got published in the paper the following week and although that incident followed him the rest of his life, he continued taking stupid risks until he finally committed suicide about eight years ago.
12-15-2020, 10:43 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxus Quote
Stay on the marked trails.
And stay off the tracks!

Stay Off The Tracks
12-15-2020, 08:47 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by E-man Quote
I decided to teach him a lesson by taking a photo of him up there before I went off to get help. It got published in the paper the following week and although that incident followed him the rest of his life, he continued taking stupid risks until he finally committed suicide about eight years ago.
I’m sorry he wasn’t able to make it past whatever he wasn’t able to live with.
12-15-2020, 11:03 PM   #44
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I think that the issue is that being out in nature is not something many people understand or relate to. Most people have a life that is sanitized and safety-ized. Dealing with a reality that requires situational awareness and just plain paying attention is not something they are used to.
12-16-2020, 05:01 AM - 1 Like   #45
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Unfortunately the lure of Instagram/Facebook fame claims yet another victim. It’s a long way down from that spot.
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