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02-19-2021, 08:07 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
The primary complaint was that when photographing wildlife with their Z cameras, they felt a lack of engagement with their subject, due to the EVF.
Much as I'd like this to be an addition to the list of reasons why MILCs aren't the the answer to all life's problems, I rather suspect that true as it may be in the short term, after a few months of using the EVF you'd adapt. After all, or own eyes digitize information that our brains then reconstruct.

Or maybe not - it would be interesting to here back from the Nikonians who stuck with the Z at a later date.

02-19-2021, 08:12 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
Sony a7R ii (a 42MP 2015 camera); Tamron 17-28 2.8; Tamron 28-75 2.8; Sony GM 70-200 2.8; comes to about $5,800 right now B&H prices new.
You do realize that the weakest new lenses in the Pentax lineup are the Tamron,s don't you? The 70-210 is arguably just on par with the DA*60-250, to the point where I don't understand why they didn't just update the 60-250 with a better AF motor and removing the baffle. They may have had to remove the * rating for FF but the 70-210 doesn't have a * rating either.

Sadly I note Henry's no longer have any Sigmas or Tamrons in Pentax mount in their catalogue. Apparently the legacy stuff they had for years after those companies abandoned Pentax has all been sold.

I suspect over time we'll see a thinning of those who like third party options. Pentax is gambling that they can make more money from people who want quality OEM glass, than they can from people who just want cheap 3rd party glass. Especially since recent options from Pentax are top shelf. The influx of those wanting quality glass is readily apparent. as long as thier older third party glass is still functional the 3rd party advocates don't have to leave but as Joni would say "Something's lost but sometimes gained, in living every day."

People say the lack of third party support hurts the brand. But it's impossible to prove. Be wary of people promoting untestable theories.

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 08:19 AM.
02-19-2021, 08:19 AM - 2 Likes   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Looks like the case of no specialization like it was my case until now, but I realized that for me the do-it-all isn't cost effective, because I never use more than one lens at a time, the more lenses I own the less I use them, and the more general shooting the less anything stands out. I noticed that a lot of photographs that stand out are from people who focus in one area and become very good at it. I reduced my lenses from ~15 to 8, and my goal is to go down to two lenses: 1 wide prime for architecture and scenery, and 1 short tele to narrow shots and people. In theory, based on FoV I only need 3 focal length: wide, normal and tele, anything more than that involves some loss of cost effectiveness.

---------- Post added 19-02-21 at 08:15 ----------


One of my old friend used a Canon 5DII and two lenses 24-105 L and 100-400 L, he did everything with that kit: archi, weddings, city-scapes, reportage, treks, safaris, birding.
Yes, I'm a generalist, and not even a particularly good one... in fact, I may actually be a bad photographer, based on the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm OK with that. I enjoy the process of making the photo, feeling the gear in my hands... laying on the ground to shoot a bee, hunkered down in the brush to photograph a fox, walking in the woods looking for shapes, colors, textures... no pressure to make a "great" photograph, just take home a digital memento of something that moved me in a particular moment in time.

I did sell more lenses that I acquired last year, so maybe I'm becoming more efficient. It is a goal of mine to reduce the amount of gear I have.
02-19-2021, 08:49 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
I live in bargain basement world but have still managed to acquire a KP, K3, five limited primes and four decent but not legendary lenses. If I were to stick with apsc and switch to Fuji I would probably get a used X-T3 and about half as many lenses of a similar quality. If I fancied FF, I wouldn't get much. I am probably working on about 2.5k. I don't know if the other brands have a "set" like the DA limiteds (ultra wide, wide, standard macro, standard, portrait) but I am pretty sure they would be dearer than 250 <> other than that, lens prices are similar. The Limiteds are absolute bargains! Its a fun excersize that I would think about if all my stuff got nicked, but switching? My limiteds blow me away and my silver KP is a cool camera and I would miss them terribly so .....nah
Hunting for bargains can be part of the fun!

There is also something appealing about starting from scratch, assembling a new kit based on the experience acquired after years of photographing.

02-19-2021, 09:03 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Hunting for bargains can be part of the fun!

There is also something appealing about starting from scratch, assembling a new kit based on the experience acquired after years of photographing.
Until you get so many cameras you can't remember how the controls all work. Especially frustrating in this day of settings changing getting the camera in and out of the bag, and menu diving for critical camera set up.

I've actually missed a few shots lately because I couldn't remember how to return recently accidentally changed settings back to their useful configurations on cameras I don't use very often.

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 09:18 AM.
02-19-2021, 09:15 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Until you get so many cameras you can't remember how the control all work. Especially frustrating in this day of setting changing getting the camera in and out of the bag, and menu diving for critical camera set up.

I've actually missed a few shots lately because I couldn't remember how to return recently accidentally changed settings back to their useful configurations on cameras I don't use very often.
Memory, I am finding, really does change with age.
02-19-2021, 09:18 AM - 2 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgnfld Quote
Memory, I am finding, really does change with age.
Ya, I used to love buying a new camera. Figuring it out was half the fun. Now it's like taking on extra work. I still remember the first time I relied on someone else's analysis to get the setting I wanted. Cameras are complicate, menu labels are obtuse, manuals are ridiculous, many settings are not necessary to me personally and could just be eliminated for simplicity.

When I first bought a 645 film camera, I knew everything I need to know, without looking at a manual, and the camera store guys showed me how to load film in the store when I bought it.. Modern cameras are way behind in terms of ease of use.

There seriously needs to be a Steve Jobs of the camera industry. Oh wait, Apple is still the number one camera among those who post photos on Flickr. iPhones are mirrorless right?

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 09:26 AM.
02-19-2021, 09:24 AM   #38
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It's funny. I am currently on the opposite trajectory. I have been shooting mft for five years now. I really have enjoyed my series of Olympus cameras and have achieved some great results per my eye. But I was searching for a little bit more, more IQ, more DR, more resolution. That lead me to jumping into Pentax with a K1. It has been a steep learning curve, for sure. The biggest hurdle has been the lack of the WYSIWYG EVF. I am starting to get the hang of it.

If I were to sell my Pentax gear to go back to mirrorless, I would be hard pressed not to just upgrade my mft gear. A newer body, a better telephoto and maybe one of the Pro primes would probably do it for me.


Last edited by tncasual; 02-19-2021 at 09:35 AM.
02-19-2021, 09:30 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by tncasual Quote
It's funny. I am currently on the opposite trajectory. I have been shooting mft for five years now. I really have enjoyed my series of Olympus cameras and have achieved some great results per my eye. But I was searching for a little bit more, more IQ, more DR, more resolution. That lead me to jumping into Pentax with a K1. It has been a steep learning curve, for sure. The biggest hurdle has been the lack of the WYSIWYG EVF. I am starting to get the hang of it.

If I were sell my Pentax gear to go back to mirrorless, I would be hard pressed not to just upgrade my mft gear. A newer body, a better telephoto and maybe one of the Pro primes would probably do it for me.
Years of experience with film negates the need for WYSIWYG EVF. And the feedback is instant on your K-1. WYSIWYG EVF may save you a few seconds every now now and then, but for those who've shot film, OVF is completely manageable.

For us it's a matter of "don't pay for what you don't need." If I couldn't accurately adjust an EV setting for current conditions without an EVF assist, I guess having the camera do it would be attractive. But I'll never know.

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 09:37 AM.
02-19-2021, 09:39 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Years of experience with film negates the need for WYSIWYG EVF. And the feedback is instant on your K-1. WYSIWYG EVF may save you a few seconds every now now and then, but for those who've shot film, OVF is completely manageable.
Did I say it wasn't?

I am not coming for years and years of film shooting. I am coming from years of P&S and mft gear. With the EVF I can shoot and see my result without moving my eye. With the OVF I have to take my eye off the view finder to see the LCD to check my settings/image. That takes time. But as I said, I am learning and learning how to trust my knowledge more and more. It's just different. And that difference also adds to the experience, makes shooting just a bit more exciting.
02-19-2021, 09:55 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by tncasual Quote
With the OVF I have to take my eye off the view finder to see the LCD to check my settings/image.
It's good you have the choice....
My point was, the same as Macs and PCs. What you start with greatly influences what you will feel comfortable using in the future, and defines the things you think are acceptable, and which aren't.
Personally, I set my exposure once at the beginning of a sequence. The camera automatically adjusts the settings based on my base instructions set in AV mode. No need to check the exact image for every frame. I often shoot 300 frames without chimping. So I wonder why what you describe is even necessary. But as I said, we all go with what we're used to.

I find the histogram superimposed on the viewfinder in my ZS100 completely irritating. I like to see my subject.

All I'm, really saying here is, if you're coming from P&S and mirrorless, it may take you a while to use an OVF efficiently. Learning's to use an EVF didn't come without a learning curve. Niether will an OVF. The second option in the learning's progression will require unlearning some habits from the previous to be efficient, whether you go EVF to OVF or vice versa.

It's definitely not impossible. There are many here on the forum comfortable with both.

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 10:08 AM.
02-19-2021, 10:00 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
... And I selected RF lenses that were as close to my modern Pentax ones as I could get... $17,200 ...
I agree that changing systems can get expensive.

What Pentax lenses do you have? I'm curious whether it's your lens count driving up the cost, or perhaps one specialty lens that's very expensive to replace with a Sony equivalent.

Did you price out how much it would cost to replace your existing Pentax lenses with brand new Pentax equivalents? Is that even possible because many legacy lenses have no current matches, such as a 300/2.8, 600/4.0, or any 20 or 24 prime.
02-19-2021, 10:24 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I guess the only point is that jumping ship (if you are heavily invested in any system) is very expensive.
Three pages of "but...but...but..." along with "not that...this..." and here I am to say that I believe your estimates are spot on. It is one thing to add a body and a particular lens for a specific purpose not supportable with one's current system, but the need for change must be broad and deep to justify the actual costs of migration. I have friends who are working pros that work with several systems and know one (a couple actually) that did a full migration. Of course, there are also the working pros who follow their sponsorships.


Steve

(...could really use one of those sponsorships...could I plead poverty? )
02-19-2021, 10:30 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
you do realize that the weakest new lenses in the Pentax lineup are the Tamron,s don't you?
yup, i do
02-19-2021, 10:31 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
but the need for change must be broad and deep to justify the actual costs of migration.
I would argue, there has to be something you actually can't do, that you want to do on a regular basis.

I won't change systems for something I do once or twice year. I actually shot a wedding with my K-1. I might not do it again with a K-1. But the most likely scenario is I turn down any weddings that might come my way. And I'm definitely not buying new gear for something better suited for the job. I just told the people involved "My gear really isn't appropriate for weddings, but I'll do my best and you get what you get." That was good enough for them and they liked the photos. You have to shoot a lot of weddings to pay for an A9 and appropriate lenses.

Last edited by normhead; 02-19-2021 at 10:40 AM.
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