Why are cameras limited by design?

wed7 · 04-19-2021, 01:30 AM

Thoughts?

Why Are So Many Cameras Limited by Design? | PetaPixel

house · 04-19-2021, 01:41 AM - **2 Likes**

Terrible!

That watch shot is a great example why one *shouldn't* use on camera flash. It has that typical unpleasant feel (which can be used to good effect but not like that)

Its also rambling and misses the point that there are loads of cameras that have most of his features. Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them.

---------- Post added 04-19-21 at 02:05 AM ----------

I think cameras are much to similar. More niche gear would be nice and omitting features is a great way to improve a camera. It just has to be the features you personally don't need.

D1N0 · 04-19-2021, 02:27 AM - **3 Likes**

Why are so many people limited by convictions about the way they think things should be?

**Rondec** · 04-19-2021, 02:31 AM

I've not been a big fan of pop flash. It tends to give really flat results. I don't miss it on my K-1 and don't use it on my K-3. I know there are those who do and it can be OK. but his photos didn't really illustrate that.

Flippy screens are becoming the norm at this point, so that probably isn't really worth mentioning, except in K-3 III threads.

As for monochrome cameras, obviously they do provide something special for those willing to learn how to use them and post process their resulting images. Fixed lens cameras tend to be quite a bit smaller than most ILCs, even when shot with a prime, and therefore often are used for street photography. I think it is great that there are cameras targeted at most niches these days, rather than one ginormous camera that fits every situation.

**othar** · 04-19-2021, 02:52 AM

While I don't need the pop-up flash myself I have seen some good examples of how to use it, unfortunately for the author his examples are not among them

.
A flip screen could have been handy once or twice but I would have a hard time explaining a camera maker that I need it to shoot selfies

**Michail_P** · 04-19-2021, 03:02 AM

I also find the article a bit lacking... monochrome is of course niche but very interesting and challenging. Pop up flash is not that useful when talking about serious work. And last but not least, the designer of a camera needs to be a designer with a nice, big and effective feedback from the photo pros, not the other way around. Photographers couldn’t design a camera , unless they had the necessary skill and knowledge/education/experience. That’s where designers come in. Let’s not flatten their expertise.

house · 04-19-2021, 03:37 AM

Why anyone would question the availability of niche gear is hard to understand. Further, photography is about removing everything outside the frame to allow the stuff inside the frame to become something more. Photography has advantages compared to 360 video recording. I don't trust a photographer that doesn't realise the same applies to everything else.

3by2 · 04-19-2021, 03:44 AM

I used to follow a bloke on flickr who just shot with a monochrome camera, can't remember the camera now but he saw in monochrome and used it well, nice dynamic range on it too.

I wouldn't go back to a camera without a flippy screen now, having used one. No idea what I'll do if my Kp goes tits up and I can't get another one. I've always found onboard flash useful for fill in purposes for those memory shots. The KP one is pathetically weak and it's pretty uncommon these days for cameras to have them but I wish they did as it's just one more thing to carry and keep batteries for, so in fact I don't carry a flash and have never upgraded the old ttl 240 I have, which never has batteries in anyway.

Fixed lens, hmmm, just stick one lens on and don't take any others, simples.

AfterPentax Mark II · 04-19-2021, 04:02 AM

"Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them." Well, explain the monochrome camera then. It seems you understand so you can explain them.

jimfellows · 04-19-2021, 04:07 AM

Nobody questions why we still have black and white film after color was introduced.

Jim

AfterPentax Mark II · 04-19-2021, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by Michail_P

I also find the article a bit lacking... monochrome is of course niche but very interesting and challenging. Pop up flash is not that useful when talking about serious work. And last but not least, the designer of a camera needs to be a designer with a nice, big and effective feedback from the photo pros, not the other way around. Photographers couldn’t design a camera , unless they had the necessary skill and knowledge/education/experience. That’s where designers come in. Let’s not flatten their expertise.

The Pentax K-01 springs to mind when they brought Mark Newson in on the design team. I like the camera very much, but it was not a success. So after that the design team returned to the camera design that has been there for ages. But with the K-3 III they designed the looks of the camera around what they put inside, the K-01 was build round the Mark Newson design and they had to design the inner camera to comply with Mark's design?

house · 04-19-2021, 04:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by AfterPentax Mark II

"Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them." Well, explain the monochrome camera then. It seems you understand so you can explain them.

That's completely besides the point. The issue is the need to question the existence of things just because you don't understand them. Come to think of it that is a much larger issue in other areas of life than cameras...

**TwoUptons** · 04-19-2021, 04:35 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by house

That's completely besides the point. The issue is the need to question the existence of things just because you don't understand them. Come to think of it that is a much larger issue in other areas of life than cameras...

Though I’ll make a distinction between people who don’t understand something and question it in an attempt to gain understanding and people who “question” something to ridicule it and reinforce their own position...

One of those I consider a positive trait

-Eric

**UncleVanya** · 04-19-2021, 05:22 AM

Clearly the market has spoken. Some niche camera designs sell very well. Some are dismal and fail to thrive. Look at the Olympus AIR-01, the concept was pretty innovative, a lens Mount and sensor that leveraged your cellphone as the screen. They made it compact, gave it a way to hold a phone, gave it software to talk to phones, and they gave it a couple of physical controls. But it wasn’ta great success. Ergonomics sucked, complexity of connecting made it slow to deploy in the field, lens sizes distorted the portablility equation. Niches only stick around when they appeal to enough people that they are worth making... marketing... stocking... etc.

**EssJayEff** · 04-19-2021, 05:25 AM - **1 Like**

"Form ever follows function." — Louis Henry Sullivan, architect

"Whether it be the sweeping eagle in his flight, or the open apple-blossom, the toiling work-horse, the blithe swan, the branching oak, the winding stream at its base, the drifting clouds, over all the coursing sun, form ever follows function, and this is the law. Where function does not change, form does not change. The granite rocks, the ever-brooding hills, remain for ages; the lightning lives, comes into shape, and dies, in a twinkling.

It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic, of all things physical and metaphysical, of all things human and all things superhuman, of all true manifestations of the head, of the heart, of the soul, that the life is recognizable in its expression, that form ever follows function. This is the law."

04-19-2021, 01:30 AM	#1
wed7 Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 1,421	Why are cameras limited by design? Thoughts? Why Are So Many Cameras Limited by Design? \| PetaPixel

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04-19-2021, 01:41 AM - 2 Likes	#2
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Terrible! That watch shot is a great example why one shouldn't use on camera flash. It has that typical unpleasant feel (which can be used to good effect but not like that) Its also rambling and misses the point that there are loads of cameras that have most of his features. Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them. ---------- Post added 04-19-21 at 02:05 AM ---------- I think cameras are much to similar. More niche gear would be nice and omitting features is a great way to improve a camera. It just has to be the features you personally don't need.

04-19-2021, 02:27 AM - 3 Likes	#3
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Why are so many people limited by convictions about the way they think things should be?

04-19-2021, 02:31 AM	#4
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I've not been a big fan of pop flash. It tends to give really flat results. I don't miss it on my K-1 and don't use it on my K-3. I know there are those who do and it can be OK. but his photos didn't really illustrate that. Flippy screens are becoming the norm at this point, so that probably isn't really worth mentioning, except in K-3 III threads. As for monochrome cameras, obviously they do provide something special for those willing to learn how to use them and post process their resulting images. Fixed lens cameras tend to be quite a bit smaller than most ILCs, even when shot with a prime, and therefore often are used for street photography. I think it is great that there are cameras targeted at most niches these days, rather than one ginormous camera that fits every situation.

04-19-2021, 02:52 AM	#5
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	While I don't need the pop-up flash myself I have seen some good examples of how to use it, unfortunately for the author his examples are not among them . A flip screen could have been handy once or twice but I would have a hard time explaining a camera maker that I need it to shoot selfies

04-19-2021, 03:02 AM	#6
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	I also find the article a bit lacking... monochrome is of course niche but very interesting and challenging. Pop up flash is not that useful when talking about serious work. And last but not least, the designer of a camera needs to be a designer with a nice, big and effective feedback from the photo pros, not the other way around. Photographers couldn’t design a camera , unless they had the necessary skill and knowledge/education/experience. That’s where designers come in. Let’s not flatten their expertise.

04-19-2021, 03:37 AM	#7
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Why anyone would question the availability of niche gear is hard to understand. Further, photography is about removing everything outside the frame to allow the stuff inside the frame to become something more. Photography has advantages compared to 360 video recording. I don't trust a photographer that doesn't realise the same applies to everything else.

04-19-2021, 03:44 AM	#8
3by2 Closed Account Join Date: Feb 2019 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 819	I used to follow a bloke on flickr who just shot with a monochrome camera, can't remember the camera now but he saw in monochrome and used it well, nice dynamic range on it too. I wouldn't go back to a camera without a flippy screen now, having used one. No idea what I'll do if my Kp goes tits up and I can't get another one. I've always found onboard flash useful for fill in purposes for those memory shots. The KP one is pathetically weak and it's pretty uncommon these days for cameras to have them but I wish they did as it's just one more thing to carry and keep batteries for, so in fact I don't carry a flash and have never upgraded the old ttl 240 I have, which never has batteries in anyway. Fixed lens, hmmm, just stick one lens on and don't take any others, simples.

04-19-2021, 04:02 AM	#9
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,462	"Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them." Well, explain the monochrome camera then. It seems you understand so you can explain them.

04-19-2021, 04:07 AM	#10
jimfellows Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 108	Nobody questions why we still have black and white film after color was introduced. Jim

04-19-2021, 04:11 AM	#11
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,462	Originally posted by Michail_P I also find the article a bit lacking... monochrome is of course niche but very interesting and challenging. Pop up flash is not that useful when talking about serious work. And last but not least, the designer of a camera needs to be a designer with a nice, big and effective feedback from the photo pros, not the other way around. Photographers couldn’t design a camera , unless they had the necessary skill and knowledge/education/experience. That’s where designers come in. Let’s not flatten their expertise. The Pentax K-01 springs to mind when they brought Mark Newson in on the design team. I like the camera very much, but it was not a success. So after that the design team returned to the camera design that has been there for ages. But with the K-3 III they designed the looks of the camera around what they put inside, the K-01 was build round the Mark Newson design and they had to design the inner camera to comply with Mark's design?

04-19-2021, 04:22 AM - 1 Like	#12
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by AfterPentax Mark II "Why write an atricle about monocrome cameras if you dont understand them." Well, explain the monochrome camera then. It seems you understand so you can explain them. That's completely besides the point. The issue is the need to question the existence of things just because you don't understand them. Come to think of it that is a much larger issue in other areas of life than cameras...

04-19-2021, 04:35 AM - 1 Like	#13
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Originally posted by house That's completely besides the point. The issue is the need to question the existence of things just because you don't understand them. Come to think of it that is a much larger issue in other areas of life than cameras... Though I’ll make a distinction between people who don’t understand something and question it in an attempt to gain understanding and people who “question” something to ridicule it and reinforce their own position... One of those I consider a positive trait -Eric

04-19-2021, 05:22 AM	#14
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Clearly the market has spoken. Some niche camera designs sell very well. Some are dismal and fail to thrive. Look at the Olympus AIR-01, the concept was pretty innovative, a lens Mount and sensor that leveraged your cellphone as the screen. They made it compact, gave it a way to hold a phone, gave it software to talk to phones, and they gave it a couple of physical controls. But it wasn’ta great success. Ergonomics sucked, complexity of connecting made it slow to deploy in the field, lens sizes distorted the portablility equation. Niches only stick around when they appeal to enough people that they are worth making... marketing... stocking... etc.

04-19-2021, 05:25 AM - 1 Like	#15
EssJayEff Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: near Saxapahaw, NC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 969	"Form ever follows function." — Louis Henry Sullivan, architect "Whether it be the sweeping eagle in his flight, or the open apple-blossom, the toiling work-horse, the blithe swan, the branching oak, the winding stream at its base, the drifting clouds, over all the coursing sun, form ever follows function, and this is the law. Where function does not change, form does not change. The granite rocks, the ever-brooding hills, remain for ages; the lightning lives, comes into shape, and dies, in a twinkling. It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic, of all things physical and metaphysical, of all things human and all things superhuman, of all true manifestations of the head, of the heart, of the soul, that the life is recognizable in its expression, that form ever follows function. This is the law."