Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-12-2021, 11:20 PM - 1 Like   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Posts: 187
Give them a reason why to get into photography

I am not a novice to this hobby, but have taken a significant break from it. I spent about 6 years with a digital camera, then took a complete break from photography for 3 years. At that point, I bought a medium format film camera, and used it for about 18 months. I returned to the digital photography fold recently, with the purchase of a used Pentax K-50 camera kit. I have an abundance of free time, but a rather limited budget to play with.

There are a lot of posts on this forum that discuss the latest equipment, and that is okay. After all Ricoh/Pentax is a camera and lens manufacturer. Some people have been life long Pentax supporters, and I can see why... they make great products. But there doesn't seem to be much discussion here about how to encourage people who are interested in photography, but with less abundant financial resources to buy a decent digital camera.

The number of cameras being sold these days has dwindled sharply from what it was 5 - 10 years ago. We can blame cell phone manufacturers for some of that, but it "is what it is." To encourage newcomers into the Pentax (or any brand) of camera and lens ownership, we need to give them multiple reasons to do so and make our case at multiple price points. It might be worth running a thread where people can suggest camera and lens packages to suit varying budgets, in both the new and used camera realms. That is why I am starting this thread.

Let me start off with the photography package I put together over the last five weeks for just under $1,150 CAD:

Pentax K-50 camera (950 shutter count), Pentax 18-55mm and 50 - 200 mm kit lenses, Pentax DA 35 mm f/2.4 lens, SMC Pentax - M 50 mm f/2 lens, Sigma 10-20 mm EX DC lens, 49 mm circular polarizer, 77 mm circular polarizer, 49 mm UV haze filter, 49 mm diffuser, 49 mm neutral density filter, 77 mm UV haze filter, Metz mecablitz 52 AF-1 flash, Manfrotto shoulder bag, Think Tank Digital Holster 20 v2.0, and generic carbon fibre monopod. The only thing I bought new was the Manfrotto shoulder bag (it was on sale).

I am not suggesting the entry point of digital photography is $1,150. After all, I got the Pentax K-50 camera and dual kit lenses for $425. I AM saying that for the price of the latest Apple iPhone, you can buy a lot of neat photography equipment. Showing a newcomer or interested party what a photography package like mine can do compared to that Apple iPhone should help them make an informed decision.

Please post your own take on things, with the viewpoint of attracting more people to photography and to camera ownership. The more that contribute to this thread, the more useful it will eventually be (at least, that is my hope).

05-13-2021, 12:26 AM - 1 Like   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2019
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,976
I started with a self-imposed 500€ budget*.
That got me a K-7 with 18-55 WR (170€), M50/1.7 (15€), Tokina 80-200/4 (20€), Tamron 17-50/2.8 (120€), M135/3.5 (20€) a 52mm polarizer for the primes (20€), Manfrotto Compact Advanced tripod (30€) and generic sling strap (15€). Only the sling strap and polarizer were new.

Of course, most stuff is manual focus there, but nowadays I know much more and I'd be able to recommend a lovely sub-1000€ kit to anyone...
- K-5ii/s (under 300€ normally)
-Tamron 17-50/2.8 (under 150€ if you look well)
-DA 55-300 WR (under 200€)
-A fast fifty, with AF (a DA 50/1.8 can be had under 100€)
-Tripod and sling or belt, plus a couple polarizers (another 100€ together)

That covers more or less anything a generalist, newbie photographer may want to cover outside of UWA (which is a but niche generally), and the budget *can* be shaved further.

*A look at my current gear list shows exactly how things got out of hand
05-13-2021, 01:16 AM   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
roberrl's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 343
I think I would look for the capabilities a smartphone can't offer such as telephoto or wide angle .
So my kit would be something like K5iiS/10-17/55-300 or alternatively a Sigma 10-20. Maybe a kit zoom or leave the "normal" field of view to a smart phone.
This is pretty much my travel kit although I usually cover the mid range with a 18-135 because I prefer an OVF
05-13-2021, 03:12 AM - 3 Likes   #4
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
robgski's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,759
QuoteOriginally posted by Kendra59 Quote
But there doesn't seem to be much discussion here about how to encourage people who are interested in photography, but with less abundant financial resources to buy a decent digital camera.
Just as most people are happy to eat take out and not cook, most people are happy to use their camera phones, and good for them for at least being interested enough to take pictures. A few of them will learn enough to make images. If they are not interested in making images, there is no sense in going beyond a phone camera and using presets.
The best thing to do is encourage people to think about composition, not gear. Also, talk about the making of a photo they like and why they like it.
Tell they they could do some of that on their phone, but they could do even better if they learned to use a dedicated camera using the proper techniques. IF they are interested in learning, then they can be guided into a purchase and they may be on their way.

05-13-2021, 04:04 AM - 1 Like   #5
Pentaxian
AfterPentax Mark II's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,452
You can certainly buy a lot of photographic equipment for the price of any high end smartphone, but I am waiting for the first DSLR (or mirrorless) that I can call my wife and relatives with!
05-13-2021, 04:09 AM   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,115
there is a The Photographer's Marketplace here in the forum (it might help)
05-13-2021, 04:44 AM   #7
Pentaxian
35mmfilmfan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 4,255
Surely one approach would be to show them the results from using a camera, as a large print, then compare it with the same size print taken using a phone camera. People need to see results, not just listen to rhetoric about equipment and technique. After all, it is unlikely people would be interested in a curry if they were just shown the ingredients and the recipe - but put it on a plate before them, and watch their reaction (I deliberately chose curry as there are both meat curries and vegetarian curries, so all tastes (sic) are catered for (sic) ! )

05-13-2021, 06:35 AM - 1 Like   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
Posts: 1,625
If the goal (admirable, IMHO) is to get them to use, or at least try, a real camera, a DSLR may be a bit overwhelming for a beginner - button/options-wise, as well as mass.

Perhaps something more like a Canon G-series. I have a G15 which gives great results in "P" mode (the spouse mode), but can be much more versatile if/when they are ready to learn more. (My K-3 and K-1 pictures are marginally better technically than my wife's, but she has a better eye for interesting shots!)

And, the price can be really nice - I fell into a G10 which is hardly worth the effort to put on Ebay (maybe $50 - it has a very minor lens coating blemish and needs a battery charger). I already have a possible recipient for it, to try to wean her from her cell phone.
05-13-2021, 12:33 PM   #9
Pentaxian
AfterPentax Mark II's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,452
QuoteOriginally posted by AstroDave Quote
If the goal (admirable, IMHO) is to get them to use, or at least try, a real camera, a DSLR may be a bit overwhelming for a beginner - button/options-wise, as well as mass.

Perhaps something more like a Canon G-series. I have a G15 which gives great results in "P" mode (the spouse mode), but can be much more versatile if/when they are ready to learn more. (My K-3 and K-1 pictures are marginally better technically than my wife's, but she has a better eye for interesting shots!)

And, the price can be really nice - I fell into a G10 which is hardly worth the effort to put on Ebay (maybe $50 - it has a very minor lens coating blemish and needs a battery charger). I already have a possible recipient for it, to try to wean her from her cell phone.
With young people these days it is all about portability. Next it must be easy and instantly available. No DSLR or point-n-shoot offers this, but a smartphone certainly does. And the way smartphones take pictures is changing, they do wide angle, they do macro and with some trickery they even do telephoto. And the quality is getting better. Leica is even assisting camera manufacturers in lens design for mobile phones. So yes, the ILC photographer is an endangered species. But young people (and some old ones as well) like to take pictures or video's with their phones. And they can do so much more than we SLR addicts can do with our camera's. Seeing a picture on a large print will not impress them, but a nice shot they made with their smartphone and that they can share instantly with a few handlings to all their friends and family that is what impresses them.
05-13-2021, 01:28 PM - 3 Likes   #10
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Posts: 187
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by AstroDave Quote
If the goal (admirable, IMHO) is to get them to use, or at least try, a real camera, a DSLR may be a bit overwhelming for a beginner - button/options-wise, as well as mass.

Perhaps something more like a Canon G-series. I have a G15 which gives great results in "P" mode (the spouse mode), but can be much more versatile if/when they are ready to learn more. (My K-3 and K-1 pictures are marginally better technically than my wife's, but she has a better eye for interesting shots!)

And, the price can be really nice - I fell into a G10 which is hardly worth the effort to put on Ebay (maybe $50 - it has a very minor lens coating blemish and needs a battery charger). I already have a possible recipient for it, to try to wean her from her cell phone.
I have a friend in Vancouver with a lot of cameras, and another friend in the same city that was interested in photography, but couldn't afford to get into it. When I visited Vancouver last month , I presented the friend that wanted to learn photography with a 20 MP Sony point and shoot camera with 30x zoom, which I got from my other friend for $75. I also gave my friend a basic "this is how to use a digital camera" book. It was a minor investment in a long time friendship, and now the two of them go for walks with their cameras together.
05-13-2021, 02:51 PM - 1 Like   #11
Des
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Des's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Victoria Australia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,409
QuoteOriginally posted by Kendra59 Quote
To encourage newcomers into the Pentax (or any brand) of camera and lens ownership, we need to give them multiple reasons to do so and make our case at multiple price points. It might be worth running a thread where people can suggest camera and lens packages to suit varying budgets, in both the new and used camera realms. That is why I am starting this thread.
I think we do that all the time here. Unfortunately, too many responses to those threads ignore the budget or the stated preferences of the OP (preferred subjects, indoor/outdoor, flash/no flash, portability/size, AF/MF, etc etc), or run off with wildly divergent suggestions without getting more detail from the OP about those matters. Honestly I think gear recommendations need to be tailored to the individual's requirements - otherwise the person will go away frustrated and confused.

One other thing we see a lot is that someone buys the best kit within (or beyond) their budget, but finds it too complicated, or gives up when they take a few shots and don't see any difference from their smartphone - except it's less convenient. Sometimes all the gear discussions lead people to think that gear is everything. The uncomfortable truth is that, while it's more accessible than learning Mandarin or the violin, there is a learning curve with photography and the user has to be prepared to put in a little effort (as your friend in Vancouver is doing).

Most of us are here because we got to a point where we thought, "This really is worth pursuing". That is the key.

The best thing we can do for our wannabe-photographer friends and family is to show them. Show them how to hold the camera steadily. Get them to try different apertures and see the difference in DOF. Get them to try slow speeds for motion blur effects. Show them about taking a macro of an insect or a household item. Show them how to get a better shot of their friend by bouncing or flagging a flash. Show them how to take a low-angle shot with LiveView. Sit them at a computer and show them how to bring up shadows, or how to crop, or how to adjust WB or how to straighten a horizon. If they can see something that encourages them and inspires them they are more likely to persist. Fortunately the rewards can be seen more instantly than with many other interests.

If you can't do that, point them somewhere that can - a book, an online course, some YouTube videos.
05-13-2021, 08:46 PM   #12
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,169
Today, the camera in the phone is mostly the same as the key board is. It's a way to express something visually, including video, in addition to texting on social media. Most users have no concern at all about traditional photography. It's all about instant gratification. And not just young people either.
05-13-2021, 09:03 PM   #13
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Posts: 187
Original Poster
The hard thing right now is finding a safe way to get together with a person who is interested in getting some hands-on time with a camera. Up here in BC, we are still socially distancing, as our vaccination rate is 50% for the first shot.

I have been keeping in touch with my newbie photographer friend in Vancouver, and that helps, but it is not the same as being there.
05-14-2021, 02:45 AM - 2 Likes   #14
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
robgski's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,759
Would anyone encourage a brand new driver with a limited income to buy a showroom new Porsche or Lamborghini?

Don't encourage newcomers to sink $$$$ into new gear, there is so much high-quality used gear available at very low prices. A used K-5 with a kit lens is often available here on PF for about US $300. More than enough for anyone to get an idea of how the exposure triangle works, with enough features that one wouldn't tire of it quickly, and used lenses can be had at good prices.

One could start buy having them walk around with their phone camera just practicing captures of different subjects and different POVs, etc. One could also have them watch videos from channels like Photography Online, or Sean Tucker. Both of those channels offer inspiration and guidance, not overwhelming gear talk.

My point is, piquing their interest in creating a good image through their own skills will give impetus to buying a DSLR.
05-14-2021, 08:32 AM   #15
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Posts: 187
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by robgski Quote
Don't encourage newcomers to sink $$$$ into new gear, there is so much high-quality used gear available at very low prices. A used K-5 with a kit lens is often available here on PF for about US $300. More than enough for anyone to get an idea of how the exposure triangle works, with enough features that one wouldn't tire of it quickly, and used lenses can be had at good prices.
Unfortunately, the drive to buy the "best" photography equipment will not bestow an immediate improvement in a photographer's capabilities. I recall going out shooting with a casual friend who had just bought a new Nikon D700 camera kit. He didn't have much photography experience, and it was his first DSLR. He was shooting in Auto mode, because he didn't know how to do anything else...

There will always be something "better" over the horizon for the gear heads who are willing to pay for it. I can't afford that approach, nor do I believe in it. I like to make friends with those that DO upgrade their equipment on a regular basis, because their "not good enough" cast offs are often sold at bargain prices, which sometimes falls inside my available budget..

I consider any camera with a 10 MP or higher resolution to be a good starter camera for novices. Ideally, it should be a DSLR, but if the potential operator isn't comfortable with that much adjustability or can't afford it, a decent point and shoot is a good place to start.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
attracting newcomers, camera, filter, k-50, kit, lens, mm, pentax, people, photography, price versus performance, suggested camera and lens, thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New member Into general Photography and Getting into KAP Kite Aerial Photography Kapper Delta Welcomes and Introductions 4 01-10-2015 03:49 PM
please give me a reason to buy a Pentax k3 and not a Nikon D3! clostoyo Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 87 03-07-2014 10:45 PM
"To me, there's always reason for hope, and never much reason for optimism." jeffkrol General Talk 5 07-25-2012 02:58 PM
Cannot decide which color to get for K-r? Get them all! LFLee Pentax K-r 6 04-25-2011 10:23 AM
Cybersyncs, any reason NOT to get them? pingflood Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 11 04-08-2009 07:09 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top