Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!

**jatrax** · 08-02-2021, 12:14 PM

The original question was: Can too much technology stifle creativity?

Since this is a photo forum I based my initial thoughts and reply on photography. But this weekend I was faced with moving a 400 pound plus planer from my barn to the wood shop. Now the technological solution would have been a forklift, pallet jack or some other mechanical marvel. Not having any of those I fell back on my mother's recurring comment that "necessity is the mother of invention". So I pondered and studied and came up with a creative solution that allowed me to move 400 pounds of iron by myself with nothing but the simple tools I had to hand.

If I had access to a forklift no creativity would have been needed. But without the technology I had to fall back on creativity. I'm still not sure that technology stifles creativity but perhaps it removes the need for it to some extent........... How that translates to photography I'm not sure but there should be some corollary.

reh321 · 08-02-2021, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

The original question was: Can too much technology stifle creativity?

Since this is a photo forum I based my initial thoughts and reply on photography. But this weekend I was faced with moving a 400 pound plus planer from my barn to the wood shop. Now the technological solution would have been a forklift, pallet jack or some other mechanical marvel. Not having any of those I fell back on my mother's recurring comment that "necessity is the mother of invention". So I pondered and studied and came up with a creative solution that allowed me to move 400 pounds of iron by myself with nothing but the simple tools I had to hand.

If I had access to a forklift no creativity would have been needed. But without the technology I had to fall back on creativity. I'm still not sure that technology stifles creativity but perhaps it removes the need for it to some extent........... How that translates to photography I'm not sure but there should be some corollary.

Or maybe, our creativity even now needs technology.

As I read your post, I thought of the home-made "dolly" - four pieces of 2x4 supported by four wheels - that I inherited from my Dad.

If your solution used either wheels or rollers, your solution needed both creativity and {primitive] technology.

**jatrax** · 08-02-2021, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I thought of the home-made "dolly" - four pieces of 2x4 supported by four wheels

I used a dolly, though mine is a nice piece of 3/4 plywood on 4 wheels. The problem was getting that chunk of iron on to the dolly. Had to use a lever and blocks of 2x4, alternating lifts while adding cribbing to each side until I got the thing high enough to slide the dolly under. Then reverse one block at a time until it rested on the dolly. Then push into the shop and reverse the cribbing process to lift then remove the dolly and then remove the cribbing.

So yeah, I used the lever, and the wheel for the technology part

. Maybe humans and technology are inevitably connected? But I will admit I used a lot more thought to get the job done than I would have needed with a fork lift.

ZombieArmy · 08-02-2021, 05:02 PM

Unlike a lot of people here I started with digital and moved to film afterwards. My answer would probably be yes. Limitations can expand your creativity and make you think outside of the box, coming up with solutions to problems that you may not have had to otherwise. When you can do anything with no downsides you sometimes end up doing nothing. Moving to my older SLRs/Rangefinders puts me in different situations that create different thought processes.

I think people have taken the question to a different direction though, you can be limited with digital like you can be limited with film. Taking portrait shots with nothing but your camera for example can be a big challenge, working with natural light, finding things around you to modify the scene to make it more pleasing. Thinking of the problems in a different way.

jmcsys · 08-03-2021, 11:40 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

Unlike a lot of people here I started with digital and moved to film afterwards. My answer would probably be yes. Limitations can expand your creativity and make you think outside of the box, coming up with solutions to problems that you may not have had to otherwise. When you can do anything with no downsides you sometimes end up doing nothing. Moving to my older SLRs/Rangefinders puts me in different situations that create different thought processes.

I think people have taken the question to a different direction though, you can be limited with digital like you can be limited with film. Taking portrait shots with nothing but your camera for example can be a big challenge, working with natural light, finding things around you to modify the scene to make it more pleasing. Thinking of the problems in a different way.

ZombieArmy makes several interesting points. The creative thinking that can come from limited choice is something that folks might call the Creativity of Minimalist Thinking. It is an approach as old as human time and it seeks to focus the mind by eliminating all sources of distraction. That it is still around is a testament to its effectiveness. But these old roads also teach us that there are many paths to a goal. Some might say as many as there are people who would seek a path. In fact, ZombieArmy points out several ways to limit oneself when approaching portraiture. Clearly even minimalism offers choices that will either increase the opportunity to be creative or sally confuse and distract the already perplexed.

Thus, Minimalism can work. But it is not the only path to creative thought. Another road is the Mastery of Discipline. Learn your camera. Learn your photo editor. Learn your craft so thoroughly that there is little in the practice that can give rise to distraction or confusion. Those who play musical instruments are quintessential examples of Mastery and Creativity through Discipline. For them the technology is so thoroughly internalized that their instruments are an expression of their own bodies and minds. How many of us can say that about our photographic gear and tools?

Of course musical instruments have had centuries to evolve their human to machine interfaces and in so doing have become nearly perfect. The film camera of the early to mid 20th century has a similarly perfect interface. Hence in my opinion, we have the desire of some today to return to the photography of those times. Is this desire rooted in a pursuit of minimalism or is it a desire for a perfect interface that makes the technology an extension of body and mind?

Ultimately our work speaks for itself. A knowledge of the photographer and the challenges he or she faced can enhance our appreciation of the work, but the work still must stand on its own. Given that, how we make the picture, how much tech was used, what kind of metaphysical experiences we sought, all matter for little. The picture is the point, the whole point, and nothing but the point. EVERYTHING else is a distraction. A necessary distraction, for some a joyous one, for others a misery, but a distraction none the less. And being necessary, one we must come to terms with. Either through a rejection of technology rooted in minimalism or an acceptance founded in discipline. I suspect that for most of us, we will find paths somewhere between the two extremes.

Roland Karlsson · 08-04-2021, 03:00 AM - **1 Like**

Minimalistic can mean several things

* Your tool has exactly what is needed, no more no less. Helping you concentrate on the essential.
* Your tool is very simplistic. So simplistic that you are limited. Limits is the mother of inventions.
* Your tool is very simplistic. So simplistic that a greater effort is needed. Effort makes you plan and think.
* Simple is beautiful, it puts you in a totally different mood.
* Film has a cost, you do not take as many pictures on film. Forcing you to think.
* etc

You have to remember that there cannot be one answer to all those meanings.

**robgski** · 08-04-2021, 08:41 AM - **1 Like**

“ Another road is the Mastery of Discipline. Learn your camera. Learn your photo editor. Learn your craft so thoroughly that there is little in the practice that can give rise to distraction or confusion.” I agree, Pentax DSLR features offer so much to the user in camera, before resorting to PP software. I have owned my K-1 and some accessories for years, and I am still learning of creative ways to use them .

08-03-2021, 11:40 PM - 1 Like	#140
jmcsys Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 43	Originally posted by ZombieArmy Unlike a lot of people here I started with digital and moved to film afterwards. My answer would probably be yes. Limitations can expand your creativity and make you think outside of the box, coming up with solutions to problems that you may not have had to otherwise. When you can do anything with no downsides you sometimes end up doing nothing. Moving to my older SLRs/Rangefinders puts me in different situations that create different thought processes. I think people have taken the question to a different direction though, you can be limited with digital like you can be limited with film. Taking portrait shots with nothing but your camera for example can be a big challenge, working with natural light, finding things around you to modify the scene to make it more pleasing. Thinking of the problems in a different way. ZombieArmy makes several interesting points. The creative thinking that can come from limited choice is something that folks might call the Creativity of Minimalist Thinking. It is an approach as old as human time and it seeks to focus the mind by eliminating all sources of distraction. That it is still around is a testament to its effectiveness. But these old roads also teach us that there are many paths to a goal. Some might say as many as there are people who would seek a path. In fact, ZombieArmy points out several ways to limit oneself when approaching portraiture. Clearly even minimalism offers choices that will either increase the opportunity to be creative or sally confuse and distract the already perplexed. Thus, Minimalism can work. But it is not the only path to creative thought. Another road is the Mastery of Discipline. Learn your camera. Learn your photo editor. Learn your craft so thoroughly that there is little in the practice that can give rise to distraction or confusion. Those who play musical instruments are quintessential examples of Mastery and Creativity through Discipline. For them the technology is so thoroughly internalized that their instruments are an expression of their own bodies and minds. How many of us can say that about our photographic gear and tools? Of course musical instruments have had centuries to evolve their human to machine interfaces and in so doing have become nearly perfect. The film camera of the early to mid 20th century has a similarly perfect interface. Hence in my opinion, we have the desire of some today to return to the photography of those times. Is this desire rooted in a pursuit of minimalism or is it a desire for a perfect interface that makes the technology an extension of body and mind? Ultimately our work speaks for itself. A knowledge of the photographer and the challenges he or she faced can enhance our appreciation of the work, but the work still must stand on its own. Given that, how we make the picture, how much tech was used, what kind of metaphysical experiences we sought, all matter for little. The picture is the point, the whole point, and nothing but the point. EVERYTHING else is a distraction. A necessary distraction, for some a joyous one, for others a misery, but a distraction none the less. And being necessary, one we must come to terms with. Either through a rejection of technology rooted in minimalism or an acceptance founded in discipline. I suspect that for most of us, we will find paths somewhere between the two extremes. Last edited by jmcsys; 08-04-2021 at 12:25 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Does creativity go down as format size goes up?	barondla	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	86	07-04-2021 04:09 AM
Nature Bronze Frog-How much PP is too much?	Rocketvapor	Photo Critique	10	05-18-2021 11:14 AM
Nature Another person with too much money and too much time	Murra54	Post Your Photos!	10	02-15-2016 09:14 PM
When is too much, too much?	lbenac	Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras	15	05-03-2009 04:49 PM
New Technology meets old Technology. Pentax K10D / Ford Model A	ebooks4pentax	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	01-22-2008 06:45 PM

08-02-2021, 12:14 PM	#136
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,992	The original question was: Can too much technology stifle creativity? Since this is a photo forum I based my initial thoughts and reply on photography. But this weekend I was faced with moving a 400 pound plus planer from my barn to the wood shop. Now the technological solution would have been a forklift, pallet jack or some other mechanical marvel. Not having any of those I fell back on my mother's recurring comment that "necessity is the mother of invention". So I pondered and studied and came up with a creative solution that allowed me to move 400 pounds of iron by myself with nothing but the simple tools I had to hand. If I had access to a forklift no creativity would have been needed. But without the technology I had to fall back on creativity. I'm still not sure that technology stifles creativity but perhaps it removes the need for it to some extent........... How that translates to photography I'm not sure but there should be some corollary.

08-02-2021, 12:42 PM	#137
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,187	Originally posted by jatrax The original question was: Can too much technology stifle creativity? Since this is a photo forum I based my initial thoughts and reply on photography. But this weekend I was faced with moving a 400 pound plus planer from my barn to the wood shop. Now the technological solution would have been a forklift, pallet jack or some other mechanical marvel. Not having any of those I fell back on my mother's recurring comment that "necessity is the mother of invention". So I pondered and studied and came up with a creative solution that allowed me to move 400 pounds of iron by myself with nothing but the simple tools I had to hand. If I had access to a forklift no creativity would have been needed. But without the technology I had to fall back on creativity. I'm still not sure that technology stifles creativity but perhaps it removes the need for it to some extent........... How that translates to photography I'm not sure but there should be some corollary. Or maybe, our creativity even now needs technology. As I read your post, I thought of the home-made "dolly" - four pieces of 2x4 supported by four wheels - that I inherited from my Dad. If your solution used either wheels or rollers, your solution needed both creativity and {primitive] technology.

08-02-2021, 01:46 PM	#138
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,992	Originally posted by reh321 I thought of the home-made "dolly" - four pieces of 2x4 supported by four wheels I used a dolly, though mine is a nice piece of 3/4 plywood on 4 wheels. The problem was getting that chunk of iron on to the dolly. Had to use a lever and blocks of 2x4, alternating lifts while adding cribbing to each side until I got the thing high enough to slide the dolly under. Then reverse one block at a time until it rested on the dolly. Then push into the shop and reverse the cribbing process to lift then remove the dolly and then remove the cribbing. So yeah, I used the lever, and the wheel for the technology part . Maybe humans and technology are inevitably connected? But I will admit I used a lot more thought to get the job done than I would have needed with a fork lift.

08-02-2021, 05:02 PM	#139
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,211	Unlike a lot of people here I started with digital and moved to film afterwards. My answer would probably be yes. Limitations can expand your creativity and make you think outside of the box, coming up with solutions to problems that you may not have had to otherwise. When you can do anything with no downsides you sometimes end up doing nothing. Moving to my older SLRs/Rangefinders puts me in different situations that create different thought processes. I think people have taken the question to a different direction though, you can be limited with digital like you can be limited with film. Taking portrait shots with nothing but your camera for example can be a big challenge, working with natural light, finding things around you to modify the scene to make it more pleasing. Thinking of the problems in a different way.

08-04-2021, 03:00 AM - 1 Like	#141
Roland Karlsson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 122	Minimalistic can mean several things * Your tool has exactly what is needed, no more no less. Helping you concentrate on the essential. * Your tool is very simplistic. So simplistic that you are limited. Limits is the mother of inventions. * Your tool is very simplistic. So simplistic that a greater effort is needed. Effort makes you plan and think. * Simple is beautiful, it puts you in a totally different mood. * Film has a cost, you do not take as many pictures on film. Forcing you to think. * etc You have to remember that there cannot be one answer to all those meanings.

08-04-2021, 08:41 AM - 1 Like	#142
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,817	“ Another road is the Mastery of Discipline. Learn your camera. Learn your photo editor. Learn your craft so thoroughly that there is little in the practice that can give rise to distraction or confusion.” I agree, Pentax DSLR features offer so much to the user in camera, before resorting to PP software. I have owned my K-1 and some accessories for years, and I am still learning of creative ways to use them .