is it just me or am I among a group who feels the same

**Michail_P** · 09-07-2021, 08:12 AM

You are obviously not alone in this. It’s like a rule for me: never ever judge my photos right away. The usual period for me is a couple of weeks later. Sometimes a month or two is even better. I can evaluate the actual potential of my material better. We need to get strict on that. That’s what getting better is all about.

**SpecialEd** · 09-07-2021, 09:47 AM - **3 Likes**

Decades ago I spent many years pursuing a doctorate in music, which I never achieved. Recently I came across a box labeled "Ed's Dissertation," and I read through some of it. I was amazed to see some things I had written. It was as if a stranger had stuck them in the box, and he/she was gifted. I certainly didn't think they were exceptional when I wrote them, and now I have no recollection at all. Of course, back when I wrote that stuff, my mind was stimulated every day by classes and association with other students and teachers. Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day.

**zkarj** · 09-07-2021, 02:14 PM

Several people on this thread have said they never delete a shot. Count me in that list.

1. I never have to worry about making the right decision on which shots make the grade the first time. That's a mental load I can do without. I can make and remake that decision ad infinitum, and see below for how I do.
2. You never know what the future will mean for the subject. There are famous cases (I wish I could find a reference) of boring photos that turned out to be historic. Also, consider those stories in the press about someone who died tragically and how often the photo used is terrible by technical standards.
3. Technology improves over time...

On that final point, I have, in the last year or so, revisited well over 1,000 photographs going as far back as 2008 (I started shooting RAW in 2007) and re-processing them with DxO PhotoLab 4, which has an amazing ability to extract the best from my shots using camera and lens profiles built in a lab. I've been mostly concentrating on photos I uploaded to Flickr at the time, replacing each with a newer, better, much larger version. I'm also more skilled with processing software now than I was 13 years ago. Sometimes in that process I spy other photos taken around the same time that are deserving of an airing and they make it onto Flickr for the first time, years after they were taken. Some photos I had published at 1600 pixels wide just don't stand up to my new 3200 pixel standard and they get removed from Flickr, so it's not all one way, but they do not get deleted from my drive.

texandrews · 09-08-2021, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by SpecialEd

Decades ago I spent many years pursuing a doctorate in music, which I never achieved. Recently I came across a box labeled "Ed's Dissertation," and I read through some of it. I was amazed to see some things I had written. It was as if a stranger had stuck them in the box, and he/she was gifted. I certainly didn't think they were exceptional when I wrote them, and now I have no recollection at all. Of course, back when I wrote that stuff, my mind was stimulated every day by classes and association with other students and teachers. Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day.

You obviously gotta get outta there, Ed...

**ffking** · 09-08-2021, 10:02 AM

I find it cuts both ways ( some images look better with time, others worse) and there's various things at play: sometimes I'm excited by what I'm photographing and don't take sufficient care over the actual photographic process - like the shutter speed or depth of field are wrong. Sometimes, with an SLR, it's the difference between the 3D viewfinder image and the flat screen or print image. sometimes it's just that you are so engaged with hat you are looking at that you fool yourself into seeing it as better than it is, and the camera isn't fooled.
On the other hand, sometimes you're disappointed at the time because in your mind there are also the sounds and sells and feel of the place you are that somehow don't make it into the image, but months later, when the experience is fading and you look at the photograph as an image in its own right, not in direct comparison to a fresh experience you find that it's actually good.

**José Mª Coca** · 09-08-2021, 10:16 AM

It almost always happens to me, at first, I do not know why, most of the photographs I do not like, and yet days later and even months, I wonder, does it seem that before I photographed better?

normhead · 09-08-2021, 10:22 AM - **1 Like**

We know this happens. Hence our habit of putting everything good or bad from a half year on a photo stick and leaving it running on our 55" TV. Over time, it becomes clear which are our favourites. Some we will just look away when they come, nothing to see there. Others seem to draw out attention over and over. We are at the point now where the image has to survive 6 months of viewing before it becomes a print. With images we think are lasting, over time the things we complained about when first viewing are forgotten, and the overall effect of the photo becomes apparent. We have one vetted in this way in a 42x30 print on our wall, and we never get tired of it. Back when it was one to 500, at first it didn't even draw a lot of attention. Some of my friends have asked me for a copy of the file. So far, no one has offered to pay.

Do people honestly think that just because it didn't cost me anything they should get it for free? Despite camera costs, time spent etc. I feel bad, but, having sold prints on the craft circuit I know what I can get for it if I decide to go commercial. Even if they offered to give me 25$ or $50 for a cheap meal I'd go along with it. But nothing "If you give me that file could I print it for my wall?" Seriously.

What gets posted on the forum is anything of interest I took that day. Many of them never get a second look. Many have been deleted from Flickr. I give them 4-6 months for people to fav them. If they don't get any favs, meaning I'm the only one who likes it, I'm not going to clutter up my Flickr account with them. I have them on the memory sticks on my TV or on my computer, I can already see them whenever I want. I don't need Flickr for that.

Last edited by normhead; 09-08-2021 at 10:37 AM.

**robgski** · 09-08-2021, 04:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by SpecialEd

Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day.

Sadly, that trend is not limited to West Texas, it has become a dominant subject everywhere.. At least you have football on Fridays.

mee · 09-08-2021, 06:32 PM

Both. Some of my early shots now are more pleasing to me today than they were then (and I still enjoyed them at the time).

On the other hand, Some of my shots are pretty lacking to me today than they were at the time I took them.

When I really considered perspective, lines, shapes, lighting, framing and theme of the image, it's those ones that really stand out to me. But it wasn't super conscious of it. It was more a subtle concepts in my mind at the time. And I just went for it.

Maybe it's the ones where I was really in the moment; where I broke free of what others might think and just captured honestly what interested me in the way I found it interesting that make for the better images. At least as far as the artsy ones.

My take on documentary isn't to be artsy though. I just try to capture what is present as it is. So I have different types of shooting styles based on topic.

**clackers** · 09-08-2021, 11:13 PM

I'm not sure it's a great idea to make decisions on what to keep or not keep for a project just after we've done the shoot ... we can still be in 'photographer mode', and not 'client or audience or editor' mode. We can be too hard on ourselves, or very excited and too easy with our judgement.

Nothing wrong with letting some time go by and viewing the pics with a refreshed mind and a good cup of coffee.

At this point, someone else's input can be really useful. Quentin Tarantino never edits his own films. He says he'd be too biased. If he cast a particular actor, or spent three days doing an outdoor location scene, would he really have the guts to relegate them to the cutting room floor? His regular editor Sally Menke is interested only in what makes the movie as a whole work, she was not emotionally involved in the shoot.

I have asked my wife to pick the ten photos from the day she thinks works best. I may end up choosing ten completely different ones because I know better what the brief involves, but I do treat the suggestions seriously - they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important.

normhead · 09-09-2021, 05:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

I'm not sure it's a great idea to make decisions on what to keep or not keep for a project just after we've done the shoot ... we can still be in 'photographer mode', and not 'client or audience or editor' mode. We can be too hard on ourselves, or very excited and too easy with our judgement.

Nothing wrong with letting some time go by and viewing the pics with a refreshed mind and a good cup of coffee.

At this point, someone else's input can be really useful. Quentin Tarantino never edits his own films. He says he'd be too biased. If he cast a particular actor, or spent three days doing an outdoor location scene, would he really have the guts to relegate them to the cutting room floor? His regular editor Sally Menke is interested only in what makes the movie as a whole work, she was not emotionally involved in the shoot.

I have asked my wife to pick the ten photos from the day she thinks works best. I may end up choosing ten completely different ones because I know better what the brief involves, but I do treat the suggestions seriously - they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important.

My cousin the Seatle elite wedding photographer, never did anything . His wife did all the prep for printing, albums and selected the oversize print of the 4'x6' foyer image, which seemed to be a thing back then. He wasn't involved after the proofs came back from the company that developed his film.

**aslyfox** · 09-09-2021, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by robgski

. . . At least you have football on Fridays.

here I thought Texas H S football was political

I guess it is just war

3by2 · 09-09-2021, 05:49 AM

The passage of time always lends perspective to an image. I'm a terrible judge of my own photography, sometimes I find, as Normhead said, that I keep going back to an image and other times I think to myself, what did I see in that. I'll also spend a few days tweaking images, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't but there's no correlation between time spent tweaking and image success. Ultimately, as a hobby photographer, if I like the image I keep it, it's a double bonus if others like it too and of course you want others to like it but you learn from it if they don't.

I'm a bit more ruthless culling stuff of no value these days but I still keep the majority but as I'm not the most prolific photographer I don't have more GB's than I can manage.

normhead · 09-09-2021, 05:57 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by aslyfox

here I thought Texas H S football was political

I guess it is just war

Isn't everything in Texas?

mee · 09-09-2021, 06:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important.

They are rather fickle in what visually appeals to them, I've found.

I once spent time scouting areas, found one of a field with a pond, some trees over looking the back edge of the pond, and a barn. Beautiful rolling terrain. Occasional horses or cattle.

Then I took a year to go back every season and capture a scene at the same location. Four unique 'views' of the scene with different weather and foliage. Then composited them into a single image.

The resulting image was pretty nice. And a great deal of work to accomplish. Made for a photo contest as part of a local festival.

I took home second place.

Lost to a simple highly bokehed photo of a rusty hand rail; I lost to a photo of a straight piece of rusty pipe.

That's the last time I entered a photo contest. Most times the judges are not photographers. I would have been happy to have come in second to a lot of photos that day. But not to a rusty pipe.

At least I placed above the photo of a mailbox. So there is that.

09-07-2021, 09:47 AM - 3 Likes	#32
SpecialEd Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 11	It's not just photographic images Decades ago I spent many years pursuing a doctorate in music, which I never achieved. Recently I came across a box labeled "Ed's Dissertation," and I read through some of it. I was amazed to see some things I had written. It was as if a stranger had stuck them in the box, and he/she was gifted. I certainly didn't think they were exceptional when I wrote them, and now I have no recollection at all. Of course, back when I wrote that stuff, my mind was stimulated every day by classes and association with other students and teachers. Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day.

09-08-2021, 11:13 PM	#40
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	I'm not sure it's a great idea to make decisions on what to keep or not keep for a project just after we've done the shoot ... we can still be in 'photographer mode', and not 'client or audience or editor' mode. We can be too hard on ourselves, or very excited and too easy with our judgement. Nothing wrong with letting some time go by and viewing the pics with a refreshed mind and a good cup of coffee. At this point, someone else's input can be really useful. Quentin Tarantino never edits his own films. He says he'd be too biased. If he cast a particular actor, or spent three days doing an outdoor location scene, would he really have the guts to relegate them to the cutting room floor? His regular editor Sally Menke is interested only in what makes the movie as a whole work, she was not emotionally involved in the shoot. I have asked my wife to pick the ten photos from the day she thinks works best. I may end up choosing ten completely different ones because I know better what the brief involves, but I do treat the suggestions seriously - they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important. Last edited by clackers; 09-08-2021 at 11:18 PM.

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09-07-2021, 08:12 AM	#31
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	You are obviously not alone in this. It’s like a rule for me: never ever judge my photos right away. The usual period for me is a couple of weeks later. Sometimes a month or two is even better. I can evaluate the actual potential of my material better. We need to get strict on that. That’s what getting better is all about.

09-07-2021, 02:14 PM	#33
zkarj Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington Posts: 1,290	Several people on this thread have said they never delete a shot. Count me in that list. 1. I never have to worry about making the right decision on which shots make the grade the first time. That's a mental load I can do without. I can make and remake that decision ad infinitum, and see below for how I do. 2. You never know what the future will mean for the subject. There are famous cases (I wish I could find a reference) of boring photos that turned out to be historic. Also, consider those stories in the press about someone who died tragically and how often the photo used is terrible by technical standards. 3. Technology improves over time... On that final point, I have, in the last year or so, revisited well over 1,000 photographs going as far back as 2008 (I started shooting RAW in 2007) and re-processing them with DxO PhotoLab 4, which has an amazing ability to extract the best from my shots using camera and lens profiles built in a lab. I've been mostly concentrating on photos I uploaded to Flickr at the time, replacing each with a newer, better, much larger version. I'm also more skilled with processing software now than I was 13 years ago. Sometimes in that process I spy other photos taken around the same time that are deserving of an airing and they make it onto Flickr for the first time, years after they were taken. Some photos I had published at 1600 pixels wide just don't stand up to my new 3200 pixel standard and they get removed from Flickr, so it's not all one way, but they do not get deleted from my drive.

09-08-2021, 09:41 AM	#34
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by SpecialEd Decades ago I spent many years pursuing a doctorate in music, which I never achieved. Recently I came across a box labeled "Ed's Dissertation," and I read through some of it. I was amazed to see some things I had written. It was as if a stranger had stuck them in the box, and he/she was gifted. I certainly didn't think they were exceptional when I wrote them, and now I have no recollection at all. Of course, back when I wrote that stuff, my mind was stimulated every day by classes and association with other students and teachers. Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day. You obviously gotta get outta there, Ed...

09-08-2021, 10:02 AM	#35
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	I find it cuts both ways ( some images look better with time, others worse) and there's various things at play: sometimes I'm excited by what I'm photographing and don't take sufficient care over the actual photographic process - like the shutter speed or depth of field are wrong. Sometimes, with an SLR, it's the difference between the 3D viewfinder image and the flat screen or print image. sometimes it's just that you are so engaged with hat you are looking at that you fool yourself into seeing it as better than it is, and the camera isn't fooled. On the other hand, sometimes you're disappointed at the time because in your mind there are also the sounds and sells and feel of the place you are that somehow don't make it into the image, but months later, when the experience is fading and you look at the photograph as an image in its own right, not in direct comparison to a fresh experience you find that it's actually good.

09-08-2021, 10:16 AM	#36
José Mª Coca Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Barcelona Photos: Gallery Posts: 117	It almost always happens to me, at first, I do not know why, most of the photographs I do not like, and yet days later and even months, I wonder, does it seem that before I photographed better?

09-08-2021, 10:22 AM - 1 Like	#37
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	We know this happens. Hence our habit of putting everything good or bad from a half year on a photo stick and leaving it running on our 55" TV. Over time, it becomes clear which are our favourites. Some we will just look away when they come, nothing to see there. Others seem to draw out attention over and over. We are at the point now where the image has to survive 6 months of viewing before it becomes a print. With images we think are lasting, over time the things we complained about when first viewing are forgotten, and the overall effect of the photo becomes apparent. We have one vetted in this way in a 42x30 print on our wall, and we never get tired of it. Back when it was one to 500, at first it didn't even draw a lot of attention. Some of my friends have asked me for a copy of the file. So far, no one has offered to pay. Do people honestly think that just because it didn't cost me anything they should get it for free? Despite camera costs, time spent etc. I feel bad, but, having sold prints on the craft circuit I know what I can get for it if I decide to go commercial. Even if they offered to give me 25$ or $50 for a cheap meal I'd go along with it. But nothing "If you give me that file could I print it for my wall?" Seriously. What gets posted on the forum is anything of interest I took that day. Many of them never get a second look. Many have been deleted from Flickr. I give them 4-6 months for people to fav them. If they don't get any favs, meaning I'm the only one who likes it, I'm not going to clutter up my Flickr account with them. I have them on the memory sticks on my TV or on my computer, I can already see them whenever I want. I don't need Flickr for that. Last edited by normhead; 09-08-2021 at 10:37 AM.

09-08-2021, 04:46 PM - 1 Like	#38
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,793	Originally posted by SpecialEd Now I live in West Texas, and nobody writes or talks about anything except politics, so I'm getting duller by the day. Sadly, that trend is not limited to West Texas, it has become a dominant subject everywhere.. At least you have football on Fridays.

09-08-2021, 06:32 PM	#39
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Both. Some of my early shots now are more pleasing to me today than they were then (and I still enjoyed them at the time). On the other hand, Some of my shots are pretty lacking to me today than they were at the time I took them. When I really considered perspective, lines, shapes, lighting, framing and theme of the image, it's those ones that really stand out to me. But it wasn't super conscious of it. It was more a subtle concepts in my mind at the time. And I just went for it. Maybe it's the ones where I was really in the moment; where I broke free of what others might think and just captured honestly what interested me in the way I found it interesting that make for the better images. At least as far as the artsy ones. My take on documentary isn't to be artsy though. I just try to capture what is present as it is. So I have different types of shooting styles based on topic.

09-09-2021, 05:01 AM - 1 Like	#41
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	Originally posted by clackers I'm not sure it's a great idea to make decisions on what to keep or not keep for a project just after we've done the shoot ... we can still be in 'photographer mode', and not 'client or audience or editor' mode. We can be too hard on ourselves, or very excited and too easy with our judgement. Nothing wrong with letting some time go by and viewing the pics with a refreshed mind and a good cup of coffee. At this point, someone else's input can be really useful. Quentin Tarantino never edits his own films. He says he'd be too biased. If he cast a particular actor, or spent three days doing an outdoor location scene, would he really have the guts to relegate them to the cutting room floor? His regular editor Sally Menke is interested only in what makes the movie as a whole work, she was not emotionally involved in the shoot. I have asked my wife to pick the ten photos from the day she thinks works best. I may end up choosing ten completely different ones because I know better what the brief involves, but I do treat the suggestions seriously - they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important. My cousin the Seatle elite wedding photographer, never did anything . His wife did all the prep for printing, albums and selected the oversize print of the 4'x6' foyer image, which seemed to be a thing back then. He wasn't involved after the proofs came back from the company that developed his film.

09-09-2021, 05:28 AM	#42
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,576 Original Poster	Originally posted by robgski . . . At least you have football on Fridays. here I thought Texas H S football was political I guess it is just war

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09-09-2021, 05:49 AM	#43
3by2 Closed Account Join Date: Feb 2019 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 819	The passage of time always lends perspective to an image. I'm a terrible judge of my own photography, sometimes I find, as Normhead said, that I keep going back to an image and other times I think to myself, what did I see in that. I'll also spend a few days tweaking images, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't but there's no correlation between time spent tweaking and image success. Ultimately, as a hobby photographer, if I like the image I keep it, it's a double bonus if others like it too and of course you want others to like it but you learn from it if they don't. I'm a bit more ruthless culling stuff of no value these days but I still keep the majority but as I'm not the most prolific photographer I don't have more GB's than I can manage.

09-09-2021, 05:57 AM - 2 Likes	#44
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	Originally posted by aslyfox here I thought Texas H S football was political I guess it is just war Isn't everything in Texas?

09-09-2021, 06:12 AM - 1 Like	#45
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by clackers they're what Joe or Jane Average might think are important. They are rather fickle in what visually appeals to them, I've found. I once spent time scouting areas, found one of a field with a pond, some trees over looking the back edge of the pond, and a barn. Beautiful rolling terrain. Occasional horses or cattle. Then I took a year to go back every season and capture a scene at the same location. Four unique 'views' of the scene with different weather and foliage. Then composited them into a single image. The resulting image was pretty nice. And a great deal of work to accomplish. Made for a photo contest as part of a local festival. I took home second place. Lost to a simple highly bokehed photo of a rusty hand rail; I lost to a photo of a straight piece of rusty pipe. That's the last time I entered a photo contest. Most times the judges are not photographers. I would have been happy to have come in second to a lot of photos that day. But not to a rusty pipe. At least I placed above the photo of a mailbox. So there is that.